D&D 5e Subclass Contest Chat Thread

[Damon_Tor]

Spoiler: College of Fellowship

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Before anything else, I have to say that I absolutely adore this line "their fear and incompetence overwhelming their desire to please you"

So, while the mob is cool at level 3, I think you need something else at level 3. Some bonus proficiency, some other smaller ability, something. It feels spares compared to the other bard subclasses, especially since you get nothing for combat at all (or a use for bardic inspiration).

The Mob - There is a lot of flavor in making the mob get together, but I think it's an over-complication that would slow down combat. It would be way easier if they just gathered when initiative was rolled.

The mob is a pretty fun mechanic, but I think you need something more to this subclass. If they get killed off, you are toast since you have nothing left. An extra use of inspiration, some extra abilities. Something.

Thanks for the feedback.

Point taken on level 3 offering nothing for combat. I'll give some thought into what might be appropriate. I'm thinking something that will add some flexibility to Inspiration use without actually adding much power, maybe something there Bardic Inspiration can be expended as a reaction on another creature's behalf. So if you inspire the Wizard but it's the Fighter that turns out to have a better use for it, the Wizard can use a reaction to pass the inspiration to the Fighter. Fits the theme of fellowship and group-bonding while not relying on the followers.

As for the followers joining to become a mob, I'm walking a bit of a line there. 90% of the time I expect the mob will coalesce right as initiative is rolled and it won't be an issue, and another 9% of the time when there's a straggler or two their first and only turn will consist of nothing but "and these guys move 60 feet and are now a part of the mob" and it won't be an issue, because really how often would they be more than 90 feet away from each other when combat begins? I expect that it would only be under very unusual situations where a follower will spend more than one turn apart from the mob, and I think in most of those scenarios it would be because the follower has been sent far enough away that you won't need to worry about it at all. And the alternative is things like followers teleporting from 50 miles away (where you've sent them to run back to town and buy provisions or something), or phasing through jail cells to form up. Neither is inherently bad, magic is magic after all, but as a passive feature that uses no spell slots or anything of the sort, it seems like those effects would bend the credibility of what sorts of things magic should be able to accomplish.

As for the followers/mob being the subclasses' only feature, you aren't wrong about that, but in general bard subclasses have rather mild features, because the bard chassis is so solid. So there's just not a whole lot of room to work with without taking things further above the power curve than I'm comfortable with. I'll work on the additional 3rd level ability, hopefully it should alleviate some of those concerns.

[AdAstra]

Time for more reviews now that the holiday season is over.

Spoiler: Revelry Domain

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Domain Spells - Shatter seems a little bit off to me, but otherwise it seems good.

Channel divinity What happens is someone if blind or doesn't have eyes? Balance wise it seems good though. An effective ability that isn't to powerful, but is certainly useful.

Heart of an oxen - I wouldn't mind seeing the temporary hit points raise as you go. Whether it's you gain your level in temp HP or something else, 2d6 HP at level 20 is nice, but it would barely last a single hit.

Life of the Party - So, this is really, really powerful on a Warlock or Monk. As it is written, you could refresh their Ki or spells multiple times in a single battle. I think it works fine if you put in a rider that says it can only be used on someone once per long rest or something to that effect.

Spoiler: Spirits Domain

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Drunkard's Luck - What is the damage type of this when it is added? The weapon damage type?

Channel Divinity: Miraculous Proof - Is this also at 2nd level?

Spirit Haze - how often can this be used?

Spoiler: Barbarian Path to Valhalla

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Wrath of the Gods - Is there an action cost to enter a higher rage? Or when you rage, you can choose to super rage instead?

Rebuker's Rage - This feels off to me for some reason. I guess since you are hitting this at level 3 you could easily kill yourself within 3-4 rounds just by hitting other people. I'm not sure what the solution is though, since you are adding significant damage to each hit there needs to be some drawback.

Sacred Mead - When you take a short rest and use a hit dice, you already get your Con bonus added to the amount of HP healed. So, if the intent is that you get 2x your con bonus, you probably should spell that out more clearly.

Drunken Rage - Probably a typo, but you don't mention the rebukers rage when you give the first information.

All-Father's Blessing - This is interesting, and really, really flipping powerful. The easiest way to drop a barbarian is to hold/suggestion/some spell that targets wisdom. You are effectively shutting this ability down completely for the combat. It seems like to much to give a blanket protection against these. Additionally, it adds some odd complications with concentration mechanics. What happens is a baddie casts hold person on the barbarian and the barbarian defers it. Does the baddie still have to hold concentration or not?

Spoiler: College of Fellowship

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Before anything else, I have to say that I absolutely adore this line "their fear and incompetence overwhelming their desire to please you"

So, while the mob is cool at level 3, I think you need something else at level 3. Some bonus proficiency, some other smaller ability, something. It feels spares compared to the other bard subclasses, especially since you get nothing for combat at all (or a use for bardic inspiration).

The Mob - There is a lot of flavor in making the mob get together, but I think it's an over-complication that would slow down combat. It would be way easier if they just gathered when initiative was rolled.

The mob is a pretty fun mechanic, but I think you need something more to this subclass. If they get killed off, you are toast since you have nothing left. An extra use of inspiration, some extra abilities. Something.

Spoiler: Artificer Specialty: Sommelier

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Doing my best here, but take my comments with a grain of salt since I'm not an expert with Artificer at all. This is all going to be gut feelings.

Inebriated Confidant - At the end of the hour, does the target know you charmed it?

Sickening Blow - This seems really, really powerful. Not the damage, that's fine, but the poisoned condition is actually pretty brutal. Additionally since you can do it every single round it makes it even worse. I think you need some sort of limiter on there that "if a creature succeeds on a saving throw against the poisoned condition, it cannot be poisoned by this ability for 24 hours).

Also, 3 abilities at level 3 seems to be a bit front loaded to me.

Spoiler: Way of the Iron Cask

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Synthesize - This feels to weak having to spend an action, ki, and a your tank to get 2x level temp HP for a single round. I feel like they should last longer to make it worth the investment. Maybe a minute, maybe a number of rounds equal to your con mod, something to make it last longer.

Exude - Viscous and exude seems like an odd combination. They are knocked back 10 feet and are grappled? How does that work exactly?

Spoiler: Circle of the Great Feast

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Drunken gait - Not that it matters much, but there isn't an AC dodge bonus in 5th edition (or magical, or shield, or any other type for that matter). So, there is no need to say it, it may confuse some people.

Brewmaster - How many uses do you get out of each brew? You mentioned that the druid can take a swig, doesn't that use up the brew completely, or does it have multiple uses? If it's single use, then I would remove that to simplify the wording somewhat.

Medicinal mead - restored 1d4 + half level of druid hit points?

party animal - The first part of this is completely unnecessary. When a Druid wildshapes, they keep their class features (other than being able to cast spells). So, they would already be able to use this feature prior to level 10. So, you can certainly enhance this ability fairly significantly.

Free spirited - This feels kind of weak for a capstone to me. Admittedly, druid capstones are weaker, but the least you could do is make it so you can cast it concentration free. That would be something at least.

Spoiler: Oath of The Boor

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First things first, tongue in cheek is perfectly fine. My first entry was a Pinball Wizard (based on The Who's rock opera Tommy) and I made a barbarian who was a tool user with an ability called "percussive maintenance" (effectively raging and beating things with tools until they were crafted).

Oath Spells:
Why are you giving Spirit Guardians? This seems like a huge boon to a Paladin and doesn't really fit into the theme that I can tell. Bestow Curse, Remove Curse, Create Food and Water, Stinking Cloud, and Slow seem like they would fit to me.

Turn the Civilized - Alright, I find this ability flat out hilarious.

Aura of Disgust - How does this work with casters? Do they cast against you or do they attack? Honestly, I'm not sure I'm a fan of this ability since you can't turn it off. While a Paladin is a tank and wants to be the focus of attacks, making it required that all bad guys attack you all the time is pretty brutal. How does this Paladin escape when they are being downed? I would re-consider it to be something else, that could be the same name even. You could do something where enemies needs to make a save or be poisoned for 1 round (on a successful save, they are immune).

Toxic Cleansing - Woah... that is a lot of HP. At 15th level that is 75 extra hit points that are gained per short rest (so 225 HP on an average adventuring day). Also, it's a little bit odd to tie a 15th level ability to a channel divinity. I would consider making it a once per long rest ability that isn't tied to Turn the Civilized.

Inured to Death - This is really powerful as well, on the other hand a level 20 ability is supposed to be. I am not a huge fan of this ability in the Zealot barbarian, but that is more a person issue rather than a balance issue.


Overall it's a good subclass. There is a lot of good flavor, but some of the abilities need to be tightened up or modified.

Since it’s added to the damage roll, it would do the same damage type as the attack. Since it’s the result and not the die itself being added/subtracted, it’s also not doubled by a crit.

Yes. I’ll change the wording to make that clear

It’s intended to be at-will like the Light Cleric’s aura. I might change it to make a it a bit more of a tradeoff.

[Damon_Tor]

Added the following ability to the College of Fellowship:

Strength in Numbers
Also at third level, you inspire unity among your comrades in arms. A creature that has a Bardic Inspiration die from you can roll that die when it takes damage: instead of that creature taking the damage alone, the damage is divided between that creature and a number of other willing creatures within 30 feet of it, which cannot exceed the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration die. The damage is divided as that creature wishes, but must be divided as evenly as possible.

[nickl_2000]

Added the following ability to the College of Fellowship:

Strength in Numbers
Also at third level, you inspire unity among your comrades in arms. A creature that has a Bardic Inspiration die from you can roll that die when it takes damage: instead of that creature taking the damage alone, the damage is divided between that creature and a number of other willing creatures within 30 feet of it, which cannot exceed the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration die. The damage is divided as that creature wishes, but must be divided as evenly as possible.

This isn’t bad, a nice new use of inspiration.

So, I have a die and get hit for 25 damage. Roll the die and get a four. Now instead of me taking 25 damage, my 4 willing ally friends and I each take 5 damage?

[Damon_Tor]

This isn’t bad, a nice new use of inspiration.

So, I have a die and get hit for 25 damage. Roll the die and get a four. Now instead of me taking 25 damage, my 4 willing ally friends and I each take 5 damage?

Correct, yes.

I went ahead and added an example of how this works in my Q&A section as well.

[MoleMage]

Not as detailed as I'd like to do, but some small feedback for everyone here.

Spoiler: Revelry Domain

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Why does Center of Attention give advantage on Constitution saving throws? The damage resistance I can see, but Con saves feel out of place.

Heart of an Oxen: Most resistance features just give resistance, even if you already have resistance to that thing.

Life of the Party: I don't have a good point of comparison for this, but it seems too strong. If there's a Warlock around, the cleric can easily trade one 6th level slot out for 4 5th level slots.

Spoiler: Spirits Domain

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Drunkard's Luck (Defensive version) is fine, but I think the damage output is a little too high for the offensive usage.

Miraculous Proof seems like it should be on its own use limitation rather than the Channel Divinity limitation; Channel Divinity usually has direct combat application in some manner. If you switch Drunkard's Luck to a Channel Divinity feature and Miraculous Proof to its own I think it would work better.

Inebriation is an odd effect. Definitely like it though. Same with Spirit Haze

Spoiler: Path to Valhalla

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Just all around like this. Only concern is that All-Father's Blessing references Sacred Mead but seems to have nothing to do with it.

Spoiler: College of Fellowship

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Do non-mob commoners still have HP? Can they be killed in battle? Other than that, it's a well-done class. The mob rules are solid and it looks fun.

Spoiler: Sommelier

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I'll be honest I don't have the book with Artificer yet so my only point of reference is the old playtest rules

Inebriated Confidant seems fun.
Sickening Blow feels like it should have a usage limitation. Do Artificers normally get a bonus action damage feature?
Nauseating Strike continues to build Sickening Blow. That seems like a lot of damage and riders for one bonus action.

Spoiler: Tavern Wench

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Bar brawling isn't always about the patrons, eh?

Each of the features here seems to build on a theme without actually being mechanically related to one another, which is pretty cool. It gives the rogue a lot of options in combat, where they normally lack variety. Good job.

Spoiler: Way of the Iron Cask

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Is Acrid Furnace both a passive and active feature? As in you can always eat anything, but you can only rapidly consume something a number of times per long rest?
Synthesize temp HP does not last long enough to be worth it IMO. The foci are also a little complicated (I like complicated, but it's not necessarily a common opinion).
Bring Me More is odd. Why not a short rest, since they normally replenish on a long? I also don't really see it as a combat feature unlike Ki or Bardic Inspiration so initiative is doubly odd as a trigger.

Spoiler: Circle of the Great Feast

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Why not give both brewing tools and musical instrument at 2? Those are relatively minor proficiencies.

Drunken Gait is cool.

Brewmaster only has two effects but they seem fine.

Wild shape is the name of the transformation druid feature, not beast shape. Also, unless otherwise specified, class features are retained in animal form by default (Drunken Gait's benefits should already apply to animal shapes).

Free Spirited: Supernatural abilities are not a thing anylonger in 5e. The wording would be "cast [spell] without consuming a spell slot or requiring material or somatic components" or something to that effect.

Spoiler: Oath of the Boor

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Turn the Civilized needs a duration. Also...gross (but thematic).
Aura of Disgust should allow them to ignore the effect by some means (disadvantage attacking other people, lowered damage against other people, something to that effect).
Inured to Death is a good capstone, but its wording could be cleaned up a bit.

I'll also be making some last minute adjustments to College of the Wassailer later this week or possibly this weekend just before deadline.

[Damon_Tor]

[SPOILER=College of Fellowship]

Do non-mob commoners still have HP? Can they be killed in battle? Other than that, it's a well-done class. The mob rules are solid and it looks fun.

They do, they have 4 HP (and 10 AC) like any commoner, and they can die, though the fact that they just run and hide means I expect most DMs will ignore them. Before they can form a mob they're a purely out-of-combat resource, great for the social/exploration pillars simply because manpower can be so useful, but there's not a good reason an enemy with any sort of tactical intelligence would spend its time trying to pick off the guys running away when there are real credible threats on the battlefield.

[Phhase]

Spoiler: Way of the Iron Cask

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Is Acrid Furnace both a passive and active feature? As in you can always eat anything, but you can only rapidly consume something a number of times per long rest?
Synthesize temp HP does not last long enough to be worth it IMO. The foci are also a little complicated (I like complicated, but it's not necessarily a common opinion).
Bring Me More is odd. Why not a short rest, since they normally replenish on a long? I also don't really see it as a combat feature unlike Ki or Bardic Inspiration so initiative is doubly odd as a trigger.

Yes, it's both. The active is there so that you can refill your Tank with an action while in combat (which is also why Bring Me More works that way). At the eleventh hour, I'm making the proper edits. Synthesize no longer had a blink-and-you'll-miss-it duration, and is stronger. With Viscous, it's like you hit someone hard with Iron Bands of Bilarro. They fly through the air with a gob of goo on them, then splat. Hard Synthesize now no longer makes you immune, instead grants DR. Hard Vomit now can critically strike instead of gaining range. Volatile Synthesize now creates a recoil shockwave instead. Volatile and Poison Vomit effects now last longer, as do the effects of Slippery and Viscous Vomit.

Viscous Synthesize now grapples things that hit you (Sticky!).

I am sorry I could not give feedback this time . I will explain in my voting post.

[MoleMage]

Contest time is up, voting time is now!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...3#post24351363

[MoleMage]

We are halfway through the voting period, and only four votes from 10 entries have been submitted. One of the six left is myself, but that still leaves five more votes floating free!

As to our current leader, nickl_2000's Tavern Wench has taken a strong early lead, followed by Damon_Tor's College of Fellowship. With so many votes still hopefully to come, it's definitely still possible to go any direction, though!

[nickl_2000]

My votes:

1. College of Fellowship. I'm really impressed at how much you managed to do with the bard's miniscule subclass, and I also like minion classes in general.
2. Way of the Iron Cask. It's gross but also represents a character archetype that is reasonably common yet unrepresented so it got 2nd by that quality.
3. Tavern Wench. It's got a lot of fun stuff happening, as has become your style.

1. The Pen is Mightier
2. Make a Choice

This made me laugh some. I didn’t realize I had a style :)

[MoleMage]

I've been having trouble connecting to the forums for the past few days and I'm guessing that's happening to people in general, so I'm going to extend voting an extra week in case anyone was trying but unable to look at the entries or cast a vote. New deadline is Feb 3.

[nickl_2000]

I've been having trouble connecting to the forums for the past few days and I'm guessing that's happening to people in general, so I'm going to extend voting an extra week in case anyone was trying but unable to look at the entries or cast a vote. New deadline is Feb 3.

You aren't the only one. It's everywhere

[Damon_Tor]

I've been having trouble connecting to the forums for the past few days and I'm guessing that's happening to people in general, so I'm going to extend voting an extra week in case anyone was trying but unable to look at the entries or cast a vote. New deadline is Feb 3.

I'll confirm, there have been days when I haven't been able to connect at all. It's still really touchy.

[nickl_2000]

I'll confirm, there have been days when I haven't been able to connect at all. It's still really touchy.

Looks like we are back finally. Molemage, how do you want to handle voting? Call it at this point of give until the end of the month for additional voting?

[MoleMage]

Woo we are back online! I am extending voting until the end of the day March 1st, in part because we lost access during the last extension, in part because I need to recollect my bearings, and in part because I won't have access to a proper computer for another three days and I always try to end these things on a Sunday.

[Man_Over_Game]

Remind me again, are we allowed to post a homebrew we've already created that fits the contest?

It seems the next contest is going to be one where you make a choice between two features, and I have one that'd fit perfectly, but I want to make sure it's within the rules to do so.

[MoleMage]

Votes tallied, time to call it!

In 3rd place, with 9 points, we have those seekers of glorious death, sengmeng's barbarians on the Path to Valhalla! Channel the northern gods when you rage, and drink your devotion when you do pretty much anything!

In 2nd place, with 11 points, we have the rock stars of the fantasy realm, Damon_Tor's College of Fellowship! Stand for the common folk and let them stand for you. Organize your devotees into an attacking force!

Aaaaand in 1st place, with a staggering 18 points, we have that most iconic of supporting characters now taking the spotlight, it's nickl_2000's Tavern Wench! You handle the booze around here, and you've been dealing with uppity adventurers too long. Make sure everyone knows to watch their behavior!


As for themes, we had a clear breakaway in Make A Choice, and our runners-up were tied between Bigger is Better and The Pen is Mightier. Tiebreaker rules would put Bigger is Better ahead, but I'll just go ahead and include both in the next contest voting pool instead.

And we're ready to get the next contest up! Keep your eyes open for Contest XIV: Make a Choice!

And it's up here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...1#post24383141

[Damon_Tor]

Well I think I've got my Vestige Warlock solidly in "alpha" release. It's a sort of "build your own patron" system where you get to glue together three different not-quite-so-powerful mini-patrons and hopefully come up with something greater than the sum of their parts. It's more of a "caster" than other warlocks in that it doesn't have much in the way of defensive features, but instead his features are nearly exclusively short-rest limited powers which augment spells he casts, a sort of souped-up metamagic.

The vestiges' powers are deliberately made to be usable together in combination. Decisively win a Counterspell vs Counterspell battle with The Paradox so you can steal the BBEG's self-buff spell with The Lost then pass it on to an ally with The Regent or you can Dial an AoE damage spell up to 11 with The Void, The Ascendant and the Guardian.

I broke from tradition by not giving the vestiges names from the Lore: both the 3.5 Binder and the 4e Vestige Pact Warlock named each vestige, and I didn't really care for it. My preference was to name them after various mythic archetypes and make them totally setting-neutral.

[RickAsWritten]

My entry is up. Sorcerous Origin: Fateweaver.

I’m in the process of reading The Wheel of Time for the first time, so I’ve been getting a steady diet of Ta’veren and the Pattern. This subclass is partially inspired by that series, as well as the Quantal and Marjal from Mark Lawerence’s Book of the Ancestor series. And also partially inspired by the three Fates of Greek mythology.

I'm happy with it overall, but I think it needs work/fine tuning. I find that I'm having a harder time gauging balance since the release of the Class Feature Variants UA. The added versatility definitely skews balance, but I'm not sure I've fully grasped the new "meta" for creating subclasses. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

RickAsWritten

[saucerhead]

Well I have to say that Sub14 is off to a great start. You are all coming up with very interesting ideas. I have nothing at this point, and might end up sitting out this contest, but it looks to be a good one.

Good luck, and congrats to the winners of Sub13.

[nickl_2000]

Well I have to say that Sub14 is off to a great start. You are all coming up with very interesting ideas. I have nothing at this point, and might end up sitting out this contest, but it looks to be a good one.

Good luck, and congrats to the winners of Sub13.

I'm in the same place as you, but we will see what my mind comes up with over the next few days

[sengmeng]

Feedback:

Fighter Archetype: Olympian

I like this well enough. Would definitely allow it as a DM, but it's not super exciting. I do not know how to improve it. You gain all but one of the events by the time you complete this; are you looking for more suggestions for events to add? Also, it's a fighter. You can go wild and most people won't think it's overpowered. I'd say the shotput should require two hands (I never did it, but it looks that way) and should specify that you do or do not have proficiency for the attack. Discus needs a range as a whole new weapon, and why is it special? Special implies there's more rules to read to get what it does. Wrestling is by far my favorite for a character I would actually play. The jumping and running ones seem fine, if underwhelming. Decathlete is fine for the superhuman things that 18th level characters are supposed to do.

Warlock Patron: The Vestige
Looks like we had some pretty similar thoughts, I just did mine the lazy way. I like it. I suppose you're looking to expand the vestige list? It would be cool to have one for each skill, but maybe you don't want to hand them that much versatility, or just don't care to do it with the purely physical skills. Although, it's a warlock, so they can probably use all the utility they can get their hands on. So far, Athletics, Acrobatics, Handle Animal, Investigation, Peformance, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Survival are unrepresented.

Spoiler: Suggested Vestiges

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The Avatar A god that befell disaster due to his desire to physically manifest and walk with mortals. Grants Athletics.
The Rider Basically Ghost Rider. Grants Animal Handling.
The Lorekeeper Similar to mages who ascended via magic, the lorekeeper rooted out some secrets that were not meant to be known. Grants Investigation.
The Crossroads Where mortals go to barter their souls for skill in song. Grants Performance.
The Thief How does one gain the powers of a god of thieves? One steals it. Grants Sleight of Hand.
The Castaway Physically stranded in a world of otherness, a mortal absorbed so much energy from an alien world, they reached vestige status. Grants Survival.

Can't really think of one for Acrobatics and Stealth (unless you want to roll them in with the same ideas as Athletics and Sleight of Hand).

Sorcerous Origin: Threadweaver
Love the tie-in to Greek mythology. I really don't have much to say, except the 18th level ability is weird and non-intuitive, though it remains thematic. Maybe tighten the wording? Not that it's long, it just would by necessity become a more elegant and easily understood feature if you managed to get the point across with fewer words. Sorry if that's not very helpful.

[Damon_Tor]

I have nothing at this point, and might end up sitting out this contest, but it looks to be a good one.

I've been thinking about it since the last contest went dormant during the great forum coma, and yeah, I didn't have a strong idea at first either. I felt like there were a ton of ways I could just insert choices into almost any subclass I could think of, but it always just felt like I was coming up with 3+ different subclasses that just mix and match features like the Totem Barbarian does. I wanted the choices to be more meaningful, and to interact with each other.

[Damon_Tor]

Warlock Patron: The Vestige[/SIZE]
Looks like we had some pretty similar thoughts, I just did mine the lazy way. I like it. I suppose you're looking to expand the vestige list? It would be cool to have one for each skill, but maybe you don't want to hand them that much versatility, or just don't care to do it with the purely physical skills. Although, it's a warlock, so they can probably use all the utility they can get their hands on. So far, Athletics, Acrobatics, Handle Animal, Investigation, Peformance, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Survival are unrepresented.

Spoiler: Suggested Vestiges

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The Avatar A god that befell disaster due to his desire to physically manifest and walk with mortals. Grants Athletics.
The Rider Basically Ghost Rider. Grants Animal Handling.
The Lorekeeper Similar to mages who ascended via magic, the lorekeeper rooted out some secrets that were not meant to be known. Grants Investigation.
The Crossroads Where mortals go to barter their souls for skill in song. Grants Performance.
The Thief How does one gain the powers of a god of thieves? One steals it. Grants Sleight of Hand.
The Castaway Physically stranded in a world of otherness, a mortal absorbed so much energy from an alien world, they reached vestige status. Grants Survival.

Can't really think of one for Acrobatics and Stealth (unless you want to roll them in with the same ideas as Athletics and Sleight of Hand).

I didn't want to have one for every possible skill; I didn't want to have too many options for vestiges for one thing: my focus was on social and knowledge skills, with a few scattered others where it made sense. Investigation is one I would like to see added though and I have a loose set of ideas for a vestige that will work with it, but it wasn't ready for the "alpha release".

EDIT: The Investigation Vestige is in, "The Question", an amalgamation of erased knowledge and history. Somewhat similar to The Lost, in that it's a communal intelligence born of disembodied thoughts, but while The Lost is bound together by misplaced magic, The Question is bound by the divine forbiddance of the powerful beings that sealed away the secrets.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Feedback:

Fighter Archetype: Olympian

I like this well enough. Would definitely allow it as a DM, but it's not super exciting. I do not know how to improve it. You gain all but one of the events by the time you complete this; are you looking for more suggestions for events to add? Also, it's a fighter. You can go wild and most people won't think it's overpowered. I'd say the shotput should require two hands (I never did it, but it looks that way) and should specify that you do or do not have proficiency for the attack. Discus needs a range as a whole new weapon, and why is it special? Special implies there's more rules to read to get what it does. Wrestling is by far my favorite for a character I would actually play. The jumping and running ones seem fine, if underwhelming. Decathlete is fine for the superhuman things that 18th level characters are supposed to do.

Thanks so much for the feedback!

I never thought of the champion as particularly exciting so I used this as a chance to make a similar “better than basic” fighter with more choices and widgets. As you level you mostly just get better at basic actions but get a few more options and a lot more choice in how you improve.

The idea for the discus is still half baked. The special quality right now is a place holder but supposed to be related to its ability to get around cover.

Shot put is a one handed toss. Since the rules generally interfere with making multiple thrown attacks I thought the ability to throw a single small object for “Cantrip” damage was an approach to a fix, Like the scaling damage of the Javelin and the range of the hammer throw events bringing the thrown ranges up to par with smaller bows/crossbows.

I’ll go back in and add Proficiency bonus for clarity to some of the entries.

[RickAsWritten]

Feedback:Sorcerous Origin: Threadweaver
Love the tie-in to Greek mythology. I really don't have much to say, except the 18th level ability is weird and non-intuitive, though it remains thematic. Maybe tighten the wording? Not that it's long, it just would by necessity become a more elegant and easily understood feature if you managed to get the point across with fewer words. Sorry if that's not very helpful.

Thanks for the feedback. You're right, the phrasing isn't quite clear on that ability. I'll put some thought into reworking it.

Some quick feedback for the completed ones:

Spoiler: Fighter Subclass: The Olympian

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I like it. It adds some fun new toys for a Fighter. I think it needs a ribbon ability or two. All the subclasses that offer a choice from an existing ability at higher levels still have other, weaker abilities at those levels. So something for skills or non-combat for 7th, 10th, and 15th would make this subclass shine.

Spoiler: Otherwordly Patron: the Vestige

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A lot to unpack here. Overall I like it. Some of those Vestige powers look fun as heck. There's probably some power-level variations between the Vestiges, but nothing that stood out as egregious. I normally don't love to add a tertiary stat onto a subclass, but you've reduced the MADness some by including the static +1, +2, +3

Spoiler: Warlock Patron: The IFCC

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I love the corporate-devil theme. I like the choice from any spell list. I think the level 6 ability is a bit on the weak-side/boring-side and the immunity at level 10 is a little on the strong-side. It evens out, but there are definitely some power-spikes and power-lulls there. Levels 6 to 10 might feel like a drag. Soul Splice is a good idea for fixing Mystic Arcanum, but I think the wording could be cleaned up a bit. Much like my capstone, your capstone could use a rewrite to get it simpler and more clear.

[Man_Over_Game]

I've been thinking about it since the last contest went dormant during the great forum coma, and yeah, I didn't have a strong idea at first either. I felt like there were a ton of ways I could just insert choices into almost any subclass I could think of, but it always just felt like I was coming up with 3+ different subclasses that just mix and match features like the Totem Barbarian does. I wanted the choices to be more meaningful, and to interact with each other.

You could do something like a Monk I made a while back:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...mal-form-Monk)

I'd use it, but since it's shared somewhere outside of the contest, but inside the forum, it'd be against the contest rules.

The idea is that you're still creating 3 different specific choices, but key elements to the overall subclass makes your choice relevant and ties in the concept of the subclass, as opposed to the powers of the choices tying to each other.

For example, mine used a special attack action to utilize a special mechanic of your choice, but the special mechanics are all isolated from one another. It'd be akin to saying that a Totem Barbarian can only choose a single animal for all of its choices, but it can change its choice every time it casts its Speak with Beasts ritual. Or that the Four Elements Monk can only choose a single element for all of its choices, but the first Ki point he spends each turn is refunded.

This is enough to make the subclass have a feeling (A barbarian that converses with animal spirits, a Monk that utilizes the endless energies around him, a Monk that uses the savagery of beasts) without having to create a convoluted balancing act of micromanaging how every combination is going to impact one another (akin to the Totem Barbarian).

The other problem with having something be hyper-customizable, like the Totem Barbarian, is that certain combinations feel almost required. Bear Totem #1 works best with Bear Totem #3. This may be intentional, but it gives the illusion of choice. Players will almost always choose that which is best for a concept, and that concept is already pre-defined by your level 3 feature. There's not much of a reason that players would choose a different concept later on, so removing that choice (as I did with my homebrew subclass) doesn't feel like a loss (you don't prioritize mobility if you went Bear Totem on your first choice).

As a result, I had the luxury of working with 3 isolated systems as opposed to 3 interlocking ones.

[Damon_Tor]

A lot to unpack here. Overall I like it. Some of those Vestige powers look fun as heck. There's probably some power-level variations between the Vestiges, but nothing that stood out as egregious. I normally don't love to add a tertiary stat onto a subclass, but you've reduced the MADness some by including the static +1, +2, +3

There are vestiges that are generally useful, vestiges that are situationally useful, and vestiges that are designed to drive combos.

The Ascendant is probably the most generally useful, but it also carries with it the least combo potential. Any damage-focused build will want The Void and control-focused build will want The Prisoner, and The Guardian is a great way to get more mileage out of either playstyle when dealing with a wide battlefield. These I consider "core vestiges" and I would expect most binders would take at least one.

The Lost is very useful when facing spellcasters, or if you and/or your party gets their concentration broken a lot. The Question is indispensable when fighting things you can't see. The Indebted is important to keep in your back pocket if someone in your party dies. These are situational vestiges: very useful to have in your "vestiges known" but not something you would automatically bind every day.

The Shadow and The Abdicant have interesting uses on their own (Feign Death becomes a powerful control spell, Warding Bond becomes much more useful when you can cast it through the barbarian) but they work best in combination (For example turning Warding Bond into a way to reflect damage onto an enemy). Similarly, the Paradox is useful enough by itself just to reroll a spell from the ground up every once in a while the dice don't go your way, but its more important use is when used together with other vestiges, like using its properties during downtime to inoculate your party against void damage (noted in the Q&A). These are the vestiges for guys like me that thrive on complex systems and flipping switches and seeing what weird things they can make happen, but I expect most others won't care for them.

But that's the beautiful thing about this theme, right? Choices.

[nickl_2000]

I keep wanting to make a Fey based sorcerer class. It's been sitting in my ideas pile for over a year now, but I just can't get it to work. However, this one jumped out at me more.

Second draft of Paladin, Oath of the Planar Warrior is completed and ready for functional review. This is a subclass based on channeling the power of the planes through themselves to do different things.

Please feel free to rip it apart and give your opinions :)



My own reviews of completed subclasses will be coming in the next few days