Undead campaign

[Ryblackadder]

Let me make this clear, this isn’t a zombie survival campaign. There’s wights, ghosts, liches (later on of course), enemies that aren’t undead and undead versions of regular enemies. Resources are scarce, short and long rests are limited, and the world is ripe with diseases and hostile locals. My only issue is that there are many classes in D&D that are able to make fighting undead a breeze. I have no problem with these normally but necromancer wizards (mostly the turn undead), clerics, Paladins, they can turn undead into Swiss cheese easily and I don’t want people who don’t pick anti undead classes to feel behind or for the campaign to feel too easy. Bonus if you have any other helpful ideas or tips. Thank you!

[ImproperJustice]

Somehere out there there is an old OSR fanzine called “into the laberynth”

One of the issues is all about making Zombies terrifying for D&D characters.
I know you said your campaign goes beyond Zombies but it may be worth tracking it down since it was a free resource.

One of the ideas was Druid created undead via a virus or fungal infection, creating undead which are not vulnerable to the usual turning or radiant sources of damage, as well as having a high chance to spread their infection to others.

Others included things like hoard surges, overbearing, enhanced strength, etc....

[Trask]

Somehere out there there is an old OSR fanzine called “into the laberynth”

One of the issues is all about making Zombies terrifying for D&D characters.
I know you said your campaign goes beyond Zombies but it may be worth tracking it down since it was a free resource.

One of the ideas was Druid created undead via a virus or fungal infection, creating undead which are not vulnerable to the usual turning or radiant sources of damage, as well as having a high chance to spread their infection to others.

Others included things like hoard surges, overbearing, enhanced strength, etc....

Not that I've ever really seen Clerics use turning in this edition (I think its rather underpowered) but zombies spreading their infection is a great, very obvious, idea. That happens all the time in fiction, but never in D&D. Great idea.

[Angelalex242]

Not that I've ever really seen Clerics use turning in this edition (I think its rather underpowered) but zombies spreading their infection is a great, very obvious, idea. That happens all the time in fiction, but never in D&D. Great idea.

Some people are immune to disease, though. Finally, a campaign where that 'ribbon' is a critical lifesaving tool!

[Trask]

Some people are immune to disease, though. Finally, a campaign where that 'ribbon' is a critical lifesaving tool!

Also a reason why Paladins would be considered near mythical heroic beings. They do not fear infection from the dead and so they can fight knowing if they die it will be a peaceful afterlife.

[Naanomi]

Oath of Devotion Paladin, Undying Patron Warlock, Monster Slayer Ranger, Grace Domain Cleric...

[Angelalex242]

Also a reason why Paladins would be considered near mythical heroic beings. They do not fear infection from the dead and so they can fight knowing if they die it will be a peaceful afterlife.

That, and even a first level paladin can use his lay on hands to fix any one disease...like the plague. Sadly, he only can fix one disease per level he has, but still, fixing a zombie at level 1 instead of killing him will get you a life long friend on the spot.

[Spiderguy24]

That, and even a first level paladin can use his lay on hands to fix any one disease...like the plague. Sadly, he only can fix one disease per level he has, but still, fixing a zombie at level 1 instead of killing him will get you a life long friend on the spot.

That could easily be fixed with making it where the infected needs to be cured before they actually die and be turned into a zombie.

[CircleOfTheRock]

Just lower the power of the abilities; it’s rare that a Cleric gets to turn anything, or that a Paladin gets to use his bonuses to smiting, regularly, which is probably the intent.

Either that or have a certain amount of the undead have immunity to their abilities.

[Malifice]

Also a reason why Paladins would be considered near mythical heroic beings. They do not fear infection from the dead and so they can fight knowing if they die it will be a peaceful afterlife.

They also dont fear AIDS, HPV or syphilis.

Its good to be a Paladin.

[PhantomSoul]

They also dont fear AIDS, HPV or syphilis.

Well of course not; they use Protection!


(The fighting style, obviously -- what else could that mean?)

[strangebloke]

Pretty much every class has one subclass that is absurdly good against instead. Cleric, Paladin, ranger, blood hunter, necromancers, celestial warlocks... And even classes that don't have specific undead fighting abilities can feel strong. For instance, most undead have abysmal perception modifiers. Rogues will feel good like at time.

If you get someone who wants to play a character that really isn't good at all at fighting undead...

There's things called boons and other things called magic items. No, the rogue doesn't have any anti-undead tricks, but he can find a magic alchemist's kit that can make special anti-undead resins and such, to make his weapons deal extra damage to undead.

The Battlemaster might learn a secret combat maneuver from an ancient master that allows him to force undead to make Dex saves or be sickened.

Be creative, man.

[MrStabby]

There are a couple of things that might help.

1) ban cleric and Paladin. Seems brutal and inelegant but why not? If the players are on-board then this is simple and fair as well as effective.

2) ensure the campaign is rebalance by need for other skills. If stealth is really important then your clerics and paladins may be rebalanced for example. In a world with no metalwork proficiency in heavy armour is less useful. More int saves or knowledge checks, more traps (xanthars has awesome rules) and so on.

3) summoned creatures. Even instead mages might summon elemental, bind planar creatures and so on. Vampires have the children of the night ability...

[Tetrasodium]

Let me make this clear, this isn’t a zombie survival campaign. There’s wights, ghosts, liches (later on of course), enemies that aren’t undead and undead versions of regular enemies. Resources are scarce, short and long rests are limited, and the world is ripe with diseases and hostile locals. My only issue is that there are many classes in D&D that are able to make fighting undead a breeze. I have no problem with these normally but necromancer wizards (mostly the turn undead), clerics, Paladins, they can turn undead into Swiss cheese easily and I don’t want people who don’t pick anti undead classes to feel behind or for the campaign to feel too easy. Bonus if you have any other helpful ideas or tips. Thank you!

I'd suggest using flametouched iron. I use it in my game & all undead on top of whatever they have normally add "Damage Resistance: All damage from spells & weapons not made with a Flametouched Iron Weapon or focus item". this covers how I handle the mechanical aspects on the flametouched iron itself.

The end result is that with the flametouched iron weapons, you can have badass weapons, yet a tough undead will still bring out the +nothing flametouched weapons or vastly inferior flametouched iron weapons. With the flametouched iron armor, to some degree the same, but also you can do things like use high cr undead or undead with on-hit effects in group sizes that would wtfpwn the group otherwise.

edit: Karrnath also has elite zombies/skeletons that are intelligent so should have turn resistance & better skills. there's no reason the same could be done with other basic staple undead

[Armored Walrus]

Turn Undead only works for a minute. At the end of that minute, whatever was turned is 600 feet away, not banished to an alternate dimension... Yeah, it helps to be able to remove some enemies from the board in a big fight, so you can focus on the big bad while all the mooks are running away - or helps defeat a big bad if all it can do for ten rounds is Dodge because you Turned it into a corner. But if every encounter is with undead opponents, it's not going to be a constant Get Out of Jail Free card. Not to mention, a lot of the tougher undead that will be serving as your Big Bads down the road, have Turning Resistance.

Not only that, but sprinting after a dozen turned skeletons to finish smiting them brings you 600 feet deeper into the cursed crypt, or whatever, meaning you're now facing those skeletons, plus the 3 other encounters' worth of undead that could have been fought piecemeal if you hadn't gone Leroy Jenkins'ing into the swarm, and the Cleric already burned his Channel Divinity.

I say run them as is and don't worry too much about it. If they manage to bypass or negate a few encounters per day, so be it. If you're following all the other encounter design principles it shouldn't be overpowering.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Consider using your low level swarms as cannon fodder distractions to the main threats, and then later as simply delivery systems. Just like the lowly gas spore.

Wave 1 + of skels/zombs get turned, using up channel divinity. Later waves 3 skels conceal will-o wisps in skulls/chests, zombies carrying/dragging diseased bags of flesh, zombified rats that disease on bite. One in ten Skels have explosive runes that get triggered by the skel hitting the ground.

The game is about resource management. Undead can exhaust resources, especially if buffed. And as long as the party never questions where you got all them bones and bodies from...

Which is why I wrote an entire campaign arc around the undermining and removal of bodies/bones from the burial grounds of the Temple of Hades (I use Greco-Roman Pantheon).

How about falling zombies? Who cares if they take damage from falling 20' onto the party?

Zombies/skels coming out of water? Out of oil? Out of mist? Your pally using divine sense will freak out when they detect them..."everywhere." Kinda like "Aliens."

[Amdy_vill]

Let me make this clear, this isn’t a zombie survival campaign. There’s wights, ghosts, liches (later on of course), enemies that aren’t undead and undead versions of regular enemies. Resources are scarce, short and long rests are limited, and the world is ripe with diseases and hostile locals. My only issue is that there are many classes in D&D that are able to make fighting undead a breeze. I have no problem with these normally but necromancer wizards (mostly the turn undead), clerics, Paladins, they can turn undead into Swiss cheese easily and I don’t want people who don’t pick anti undead classes to feel behind or for the campaign to feel too easy. Bonus if you have any other helpful ideas or tips. Thank you!

one after a few levels make those anti undead abilities shut down agents magic enhanced undead(normal undead that are just powerful and can be stop by these powers.) raise this level up as the games goes on. were at level one that party can only use these powers on zombies by level 20 all but lichs and a few others should be effected by them. you could also give them boons in other areas or you can just not allow theses jobs. but i don't think this is necessary. if your party has a couple of hard counters for you enemies just build enemies that are both undead and counters for them. if you have paladins and wizards just throw a beholder at them or a creature that can shut down some of there magic. over welling enemies is another good option.

as for other tips remember that most creature types can be counted so hit point and magic/anti magic we be your best friend.

[Ryblackadder]

Thank you all for your ideas and support! I will take all your advice to heart

[lxion]

You could indeed create a need for specially imbued weaponry, like silver with lycantrophes. Otherwise, you can also create different types of zombies/skellies (poison loaded, exploders,...). That might be too video gamey, though.