Best Smite-focused build?

[samcifer]

All the talk of builds (esp. the stone sorc/hexblade build mentioned in another post) got me wondering on how to make a good smite-based character. (yes, I know I'm also considering a barbarian caster build, but still, it's good to have some variety).

I like the idea of making a character who focuses on smite spells. What would be the best build to go with for getting to use smite spells the most often as well as to good/best effect? I'm sure paladin would be part of it for high defenses as well as having access to the full roster of smite spells, but I hate the slow spell-level progression of the class and UA isn't allowed in the current campaign, so stone Sorcerer is out, sad to say.

[Vogie]

You certainly could do something like a Barbariadin build, as a Raging barbarian can use a paladin's divine smite whilst raging... but you can use any of the smite spells while raging. They all cost a bonus action, have 1 minute concentration, and, well, are spells one needs to cast.

If you're in a campaign if raging isn't always the answer, having a blend of smite spells at hand to augment your normal attacks would be useful, as well as getting an extra attack that doesn't give you exhaustion levels.

[samcifer]

I've considered Hexblade + (any) paladin for single-stat casting and attacking.

[Lombra]

The most smites come from a pal2/sorcx.

Warlock gets smites too now, so maybe a bladelock/sorcerer can be effective too.

[CantigThimble]

Smite SPELLS or divine smite/eldritch smite?

[spartan_ah]

Paladin 6 college of whispers 5

[samcifer]

The most smites come from a pal2/sorcx.

Warlock gets smites too now, so maybe a bladelock/sorcerer can be effective too.

To be clear, I mean the actual spells that let you add extra damage to a melee strike. The smite spells the paladin class has (as well as Stone sorc and a few for Hexblades).

[samcifer]

Another question... Is it possible to make a pact with a god as a warlock who you can also worship as a paladin?

[Amdy_vill]

All the talk of builds (esp. the stone sorc/hexblade build mentioned in another post) got me wondering on how to make a good smite-based character. (yes, I know I'm also considering a barbarian caster build, but still, it's good to have some variety).

I like the idea of making a character who focuses on smite spells. What would be the best build to go with for getting to use smite spells the most often as well as to good/best effect? I'm sure paladin would be part of it for high defenses as well as having access to the full roster of smite spells, but I hate the slow spell-level progression of the class and UA isn't allowed in the current campaign, so stone Sorcerer is out, sad to say.

i think just going paladin oath of vengeance with maybe some warlock is good. but if you looking for optimized i think coffee lock but am not 100% there. also don't do it.

[SirGraystone]

A paladin of the good Bahamut, then multiclass dragon sorcerer (or just pick any god with favored soul sorcerer)

[Sception]

If you want the smite spells specifically? And want to use a variety of them?

That's a bit tricky, because they mostly kind of aren't that good. Plain old Divine Smite usually works a lot better - doesn't eat concentration, no chance of wasting it, etc. And most of the extra effects on smite spells allow a save to avoid them, so to get the most out of them you need both a high end attack stat and a high end charisma. AND you need to actually STAY in paladin for most of your career, because while other classes can give you slots to use smites or smite spells with, they don't give you the spells themselves.

Paladin with a single level dip into Hexblade to get both your attacks and your save DCs on the same stat seems like the obvious way to go here.

As for Paladin Oath, if you're going to spend so much time in paladin, I would say conquest, because Conquest gets more out of the middle and later levels of paladin than most other oaths. And Conquest actually prefers casting spells to burning slots on smite. However, the only smite spell they generally cast is Wrathful Smite, since they get so much extra out of the frighten condition, so you don't generally want to switch things up with a variety of smites unless you happen to be fighting something immune to frighten.

So... maybe Oathbreaker? Or Devotion? Both get a fair bit out of the extra cha investment.

[samcifer]

Okay then. I admittedly hadn't studied up on the smites and hadn't realized they were all concentrations spells. My goal would be to amp up damage to my melee attacks to do more damage per hit. I had believed that smite spells were the best way to do that, but it seems that I'm wrong.

[Spiritchaser]

Half elven hexblade up to 1 (if you then take shadow sorcerer) otherwise 3 for darkness or 7 for Moil. Personally I’d go 3 or 7

Paladin 2, or 6 if you only took ‘lock to 1 or 3 so you get extra attack. Frankly I’d still go paladin 6 eventually.

Dump the rest into either more warlock or, preferably, into sorcerer. If you only took a single level of hexblade it’ll have to be shadow sorcerer. You want to have quicken for quickened GFB.

Take Elven Accuracy

Run Darkness or Moil.

Lots of rolls to fish for Crits, a fair number of slots to Smite with when you crit.

You can eldritch and divine Smite on a crit if you want to put something in the ground fast.

[jaappleton]

First, remember that the Warlock style smite, Eldritch Smite, is specifically restricted to Warlock slots.

There's lots of ways to do it. It basically boils down to this:

Paladin X
Full casting spellcaster class typically keying off Charisma X

I personally suggest the following IF YOUR DM ALLOWS IT, since many won't: Use the Spell Point variant (instead of normal spell slots) in the DMG, and go Paladin / Hexblade. That way pretty much everything keys off a short rest, you still get access to Smite and some of the better Smite Spells, and your keying off Charisma entirely. Now... Unfortunately, a lot of DMs don't allow that, especially since technically the Spell Point system is restricted to normal spellcasting and not Pact Magic, but its very simple to adopt it for Warlock style spellcasting. But it can't hurt to ask. And it'll work amazingly well if you're allowed to go that route.

If not, I personally recommend Paladin X / Bard. The Bard list is immensely versatile and can do more than just blow **** up like the Sorcerer list (And Sorc does it VERY WELL!), as I particularly find the Sorc list very combat oriented as opposed to the Bard's more 'cover many bases' approach. But that's personal preference. Bardic Inspiration is also amazing, especially Lore's unique Cutting Words to help save allies. And you get stuff back both on a short rest and a long rest. If you go Paladin 3 you have your Channel Divinity, and after Bard 5, you've got Bardic Inspiration back now.

[Sception]

Okay then. I admittedly hadn't studied up on the smites and hadn't realized they were all concentrations spells. My goal would be to amp up damage to my melee attacks to do more damage per hit. I had believed that smite spells were the best way to do that, but it seems that I'm wrong.

If you just want to do big spike damage, I mean... smite spells can do that. The key there is that you can use a smite spell, and then burn another spell on regular old divine smite on the same hit.

But in general, if you're just looking for damage, you're better off skipping the smite spells, grabbing another common concentration buff, and just burning slots on regular divine smite. Those slots run out fast enough regardless, and if you hit multiple times in a round and smite on all those hits, you'll be doing crazy damage and burning through daily resources at a blinding pace regardless.

A nice thing about divine smite is that since it's used after the hit roll, you can retroactively apply it to critical hits to double the smite damage. Paladins who build for crit fishing can get some crazy high though not exactly reliably paced damage out of going for this.


If that's something that appeals to you, then i recommend half elf (for the more forgiving racial stat boosts) vengeance paladin (for the advantage-granting channel divinity), dipping a single level of hexblade (for hexblade's curse to extend critical range vs. one enemy per rest, plus single-stat attack, damage, and spellcasting; and a short rest refresh extra spell slot for smite or shield), and multiclassing out into shadow sorcerer after paladin level 6 or 8 (for acellerated spell slot access for more and bigger smites, another way to give yourself advantage via their darkness ability, and metamagic to ramp your spike damage up even higher). Maybe fluff yourself as half-shadar-kai for flavor, what with all the hexy shadowy business going on in the build.

Most fights you'll somewhat underperform, but when you're up against a particularly tough enemy you can pour crazy damage into them over very few rounds by expending ludicrous resources in short order - especially if you manage to land a crit to smite on with your 19-20 cursed crit range, triple advantage, extra attack, plus quickened booming blade or the like.

[djreynolds]

Paladin sorcerer is usually thought of as the best

Now for a crit fishing smiter? Who knows?

3 levels of champion is easy to obtain for a consistent 19-20, warlock is good but it is for 1 minute, shield master "was" good

I feel sorcerer though is the key not just for extra spell slots but for other spells that keep you in the fight

I guess a hexblade (devil's sight), shadow sorcerer, paladin (vengeance) would be the best.

[jaappleton]

Okay then. I admittedly hadn't studied up on the smites and hadn't realized they were all concentrations spells. My goal would be to amp up damage to my melee attacks to do more damage per hit. I had believed that smite spells were the best way to do that, but it seems that I'm wrong.

Yeah if you want to just burn spell slots for damage, Divine Smite does that.

There's two things going on here:

Divine Smite, where you burn a spell slot in exchange for doing extra damage on your next melee attack. This is a Paladin class feature.
Smite Spells, like Branding Smite, Thunderous Smite, etc which are all spells found on the Paladin spell list (And rarely in some other places).

So going with a class that gets more spell slots than the Paladin is a good way to be able to Smite more.

[Spiritchaser]

And anything that increases your crit chance gets double mileage from your slots

As above, Elven Accuracy combined with hexblade for CHA attacks, or with a Dex pally gets you 3 rolls, which, combined with darkness/devil’s Sight, or with shadow of moil, or greater Invisibility can get you quite a few crits.

With three attacks per round, 9 rolls gets you at least one 37% of your rounds

Throw in a hexblade’s curse and it’s a whole lot of crits, at least one 61% of the time

[Vrakk]

If you do go hexblade 1 then I recommend going hexblade 2.

Getting agonizing blast is a huge bonus to a paladin. Since Eldritch Blast keys off your overall levels and not just Warlock levels it is well worth the extra level. So many times in mele you just can't get there. Having the best cantrip in the game is a nice back up. Depending on how of level you will get mixing hexblade/sorcerer/pally can be really fun. I have recently played a hexblade 2/pally oath of ancients 7/ dragon sorcerer 6 ( shadow is better but for story reasons i took dragon) I could smite up a storm, blast from distance, very durable with the auras, and smiting then quicken is just too much fun!

[Sception]

Eh. Agonizing blast and a second slot are great and all, but you're delaying progression in your primary, melee based strategy for a better backup option. As a backup ranged option, eldritch blast is already pretty good. Unless your party regularly gets stuck fighting at range, unable to close the distance due to barriors or chasms, then its good enough already. And if that does hapoen regularly, then you shouldnt be building the rest of your character around divine smite, regardless.

[jaappleton]

Eh. Agonizing blast and a second slot are great and all, but you're delaying progression in your primary, melee based strategy for a better backup option. As a backup ranged option, eldritch blast is already pretty good. Unless your party regularly gets stuck fighting at range, unable to close the distance due to barriors or chasms, then its good enough already. And if that does hapoen regularly, then you shouldnt be building the rest of your character around divine smite, regardless.

But now you've also got Invocations (the lowest tier, but still) and two slots generating off a short rest for Smites.

For Divine Smite, you can use Warlock slots for it.

So if your group does take a decent amount of short rests as opposed to long rests, it may be worth considering.

[Sception]

Its not a bad option at all, i just dont think its an automatic choice if you take the first level of hexblade. You get enough to justify taking it, but you delay metamagic, more higher level daily slots, higher level spell, etc.

[Citan]

All the talk of builds (esp. the stone sorc/hexblade build mentioned in another post) got me wondering on how to make a good smite-based character. (yes, I know I'm also considering a barbarian caster build, but still, it's good to have some variety).

I like the idea of making a character who focuses on smite spells. What would be the best build to go with for getting to use smite spells the most often as well as to good/best effect? I'm sure paladin would be part of it for high defenses as well as having access to the full roster of smite spells, but I hate the slow spell-level progression of the class and UA isn't allowed in the current campaign, so stone Sorcerer is out, sad to say.

Well, if you can control the amount of short-rest you get and DM is fine with cheese, there is only one answer.
- Pal 2-3 (Devotion or Vengeance).
- Warlock 7
Then either pursue Warlock, start Sorcerer for Coffeelocking or multiclass into Swords Bard (TWF, 2 attacks per turn without Extra Attack or 3 if you picked the Blade pact -which you should really do anyways for Extra Attack and 'Smite' invocation) or Whispers (extra hard single attack), main idea being to grab Rope Trick and Catnap along with other niceties.

Obviously the best build if DM will allow anything is Pal 3 / Fighter 2 / Warlock 7 / S

If you can't normally control short rests freely, then go Pal 2 / War 3 then immediately go Bard 3 for Rope Trick and Catnap ASAP. Even if your DM may in the long run bring some events to try and break it, for a while it will help you get mileage of your multiclass.
After that I'd suggest picking third level of Pal and go Warlock 7 then whatever you want.

Reason for that is that Pal's Smite is capped at 4th level slot anyways. The Warlock 'smite' is not restricted in power but it's not worth pursuing higher level long-rest slots imo, especially since it's once per turn.

What I'd aim for personally for long run (not listing in order of build but in "synergy" order).

Fighter 3:
Action Surge mainly, pick Battlemaster for Trip /Precision Attack and Evasive Footwork or Champion for generally increased crit range.
At first glance, I'd pick Champion myself because of Devotion, considering that I want to be equally great against everyone, while I still have Hexblade's feature against one particular enemy). But if you control short rests, Battlemaster has a word, especially since it can apply a prone effect on a weapon attack to generate advantage, so I may actually favor that.
Then again, the Warlock's smite feature includes a frigging automatic, no-save prone effect so as long as you hit the first time, you'll hit all other times, guaranteed (confer below, racial choice).
Paladin 3: Divine Smite, Bless and smite spells.
I'd pick Devotion over Vengeance because
a) bonus action already has many kind of uses,
b) Sacred Weapon is appliable on any weapon
c) It boosts your accuracy against all enemies.
But Vengeance means for normal fights an easy and quicker way to boost you when you cant/won't use Hexblade feature.
Warlock 7: Hexblade Patron, Pact of the Blade, Extra Attack invocation, Smite invocation, Armor of Agathys.
Swords Bard 3: Catnap, Rope Trick, Healing Words.
Last level being a 4th level somewhere for ASI or Rogue 1 for Expertise.

Honestly though, the main reason for picking Fighter is for Action Surge to facilitate self-buffs as openers. If you don't mind that much spending the first round buffing yourself, it would be easily superceded by either Sorcerer 3 or boosting Paladin / Warlock / Bard.

Oh and for the race? Half-Elf obviously, for Elven Accuracy (hence my general favor of Champion).
As for ASI/feats? Elven Accuracy is all you need really.
But if you want to add insult to injury, you may stack Warcaster or Sentinel. I'd 100% go Sentinel myself.

Recap?
Start Pal 2, go War 4, go Bard 3, then Pal 3, War 5, and finish however you want, while getting War 7 somewhere.
With Hexblade, you really only need CHA: so start with 12 STR, 14 DEX, 16 CON, 16 CHA. Use Booming Blade as your main way of acting.
Pick Elven Accuracy for triple advantage when you had advantage already.
Pick Devotion: for the big fights, you now have better accuracy than a lvl 20 Fighter (+6 > +5).
Pick +2 CHA: you're now on par with most martials everytime, and when using Sacred Weapon you're extremely reliable.
When/if you pick Action Surge, you can either put a critical wound to a creature first turn, or you can further buff yourself with a Bless.

[MrStabby]

A couple of things to add.

Rogue can be nice for smiting if your idea of smiting is "A hit for lots of extra damage.

I would argue that the two best smite spells are Wrathful Smite and Ensnaring strike (only on the ancients list).

If you are judging smityness by impact and frequency rather than spell level you could even do some crazy-ass stuff like hexblade 2 (gets the wrathful smite and a good number of low level spell slots And crucially makes you more SAD). Ranger 5 (gets ensnaring strike, more spell slots, some good support spells an ASI (you still probably want one and this level 4 comes with spell progression) and an archetype - gloom stalker is pretty good. Oh and extra attack. Finally rogue for at will pseudo smites- arcane trickster if you want more spell slots or swashbuckler if you like their rogue abilities.

Not trying to push this as the only answer but to try and broaden the field for what you might enjoy with a broader definition.

[Snowbluff]

Probably
Helf Paladin11/Bard9
Use whisper bard for max dice
get improved smite for more dice
use Elven Accuracy for more rolls
maybe vengeance paladin for advantage

[Avigor]

If I wanted to roll the most dice at once possible in 5e, I'd go Whisper Bard 10 / Hexblade Warlock 7 / Paladin 2 / Rogue 1. Use a rapier, you get: 1d8 base, 3d8 Booming Blade, 1d6 Sneak Attack, 5d6 Psychic Blades, 5d8 Divine Smite, 5d8 Eldritch Smite (edit: whoops, just discovered that it's apparently limited to pact slots but is 1d8 + slot level so... yeah corrected), either 1d6 or 1d8 Necrotic from either Hex or Bestow Curse, respectively. Plus, if you have a Valor Bard 15+ in the party you can also add 1d12, a Crusader's Mantle spell can add 1d4 Radiant, an Enlarge spell can add 1d4, and a Holy Weapon spell can add 2d8 Radiant. Too bad Divine Favor is personal, and Elemental Weapon only works on nonmagical weapons. Just imagine this as a crit! O.o
"Final" Edit: +2d6 if you're a Bugbear and score surprise...
Actual Final Edit: Okay, scratch using your own concentration for a curse (some DM's might agree to allow another to let you benefit from their Bestow Curse but that's not guaranteed so I'll ignore that possibility for now), the build allows access to Searing Smite +6d6 Fire damage if you use that 6th level slot for it. So in total, after all review, we're talking the biggest possible damage dice roll:
1d8 Piercing - Rapier
1d6 Piercing - Sneak Attack
5d6 Psychic - Psychic Blades
5d8 Radiant - Divine Smite
5d8 Force - Eldritch Smite
6d6 Fire - Searing Smite
1d12 Piercing - Combat Inspiration from lvl 15+ Valor Bard
1d4 Radiant - in an allied Crusader's Mantle area
1d4 Piercing - Enlarge
2d8 Radiant - Holy Weapon
3d8 Thunder - Booming Blade
2d6 Piercing - Bugbear Surprise
Total: 16d8, 14d6, 1d12, 2d4. That's a lot of dice. By type breakdown:
1d8+3d6+1d12+1d4 Piercing
5d6 Psychic
5d8 Force
7d8+1d4 Radiant
6d6 Fire
3d8 Thunder
If you want to use this in AL, just drop the Booming Blade 3d8 Thunder and 2d6 Bugbear Surprise, you're still talking potentially 33 dice before magic items or a critical hit (which you should have Hexblade's Curse up and probably also Advantage with Elven Accuracy which increases the crit chance to 27.10% according to anydice.com "output 1@3d20>18") okay this has gotten ridiculous I'm gonna stop coming back to edit now lol

[Amdy_vill]

i think just going paladin oath of vengeance with maybe some warlock is good. but if you looking for optimized i think coffee lock but am not 100% there. also don't do it.

i have learned recently that hexblade warlock is better as it gets a 9th level spell so i would go 2 paladin and the rest warlock.

[samcifer]

i have learned recently that hexblade warlock is better as it gets a 9th level spell so i would go 2 paladin and the rest warlock.

I might do this on a future build, so thanks for the info. As for my next character, I've elected to go monk combined with Battlemaster fighter for the larger variety of effects while attacking as well as more attacks (from the Monk class). I might throw in a level of barbarian for resistances at higher levels.

[DeAnno]

Some mix of Battlemaster Fighter into the conventional Pally/Sorc would actually be pretty strong. Action Surge and Precision Attack dice stack with just about any melee build well.

[MagneticKitty]

I'm partial to:
Dual wielding lance knight
Any Paladin min 2 - max 4 (defense fighting style and heavy armor prof)
Swords Bard 10+ (dual wielding fighting style, find greater steed, second attack, full caster slots.)
Mounted combatant and dual welder feat.
You can dual wield lances and smite with them while mounted.

But you can also go paladin 5 / shadow bard x
For smites with full caster slots to use and your inspiration dice are also powerful smites and use smite spells from magical secrets.
Paladin 5 means two attacks too, so double smites. With like polarm master.
2 (1d10 + 8d6 (psychic blade) +5d8 (paladin smite)
+ 1 (1d4 + 8d6 + 5d8 + 4d6)
145 damage?
Not bad..
If you nova at max. Sorry if I calc wrong, or forgot the abilities. Going mostly from memory.. I didn't calc in racial damage if you have orcish fury. Throw in 2 levels fighter for action surge if you wanna forgo the psychic blades damage max