The Jurassic Park movies have a bizarre morality

[warty goblin]

I think you mean ripped to shreds by like three prehistoric animals.

I donno, my view is that if it's eating me, it's not really pre-historic. I mean I'm about to be historic, and since the beast seems set on outliving me...

[Peelee]

I donno, my view is that if it's eating me, it's not really pre-historic. I mean I'm about to be historic, and since the beast seems set on outliving me...

I think you mean ripped to shreds by like three prehistoric animals in a historic event.

[LaZodiac]

Technically they're birds.

[Rater202]

Actually, if they're talking about the scene I think they are, then the creatures in question actually are reptiles and not proper dinosaurs.

[Peelee]

Technically they're birds.

Actually, if they're talking about the scene I think they are, then the creatures in question actually are reptiles and not proper dinosaurs.

I think you mean ripped to shreds by like three prehistoric animals that are technically birds unless the scene in question is about different animals that actually are reptiles and not proper dinosaurs in a historic event.

[Rogar Demonblud]

She was ripped to shreds by three creatures who are clearly stand ins for the director who didn't like that she got along better with his dog that he did.

[SaintRidley]

I think you mean ripped to shreds by like three prehistoric animals that are technically birds unless the scene in question is about different animals that actually are reptiles and not proper dinosaurs in a historic event.

Pterosaurs are definitely not birds, and also not dinosaurs. They are reptiles, though. The Mosasaurus is also a reptile but not a dinosaur (and it's not a fish or anything silly like that).

Zara's (that's her name, guys) death was horrifying. But at least the Mosasaurus ended the torturous part. The Mosasaurus was the real hero of Jurassic World, btw, what with finally eating the I-Rex at the end. Happily, we'll see more Mosasaurus adventures in the next movie, as it goes surfing (and we'll follow more of Rexy's adventures as she roars at a lion and does other less interesting things).

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Pterosaurs are definitely not birds, and also not dinosaurs. They are reptiles, though.

Even that's debatable. Reptiles are not a neat cladistic group because birds are excluded, so they make most sense as a descriptive group based on certain traits, like cold bloodedness. And there are some doubts as to which extent most archosaurs even fit that mold. But they are diapsids and they are archosaurs.

(Also: everything in the whole franchise could have been prevented by measures normal zoos have. Moats, walls, people sized doors, and if you absolutely have to run everything not only on electricity but on a computer system rather than using moats and walls, maybe a backup generator. So they had to hand out some failure balls to make any dinosaur attacks possible.)

[The New Bruceski]

Also normal zoos don't tend to intentionally engineer bioweapons under the guise of entertainment. That's really where JW went wrong.

[Peelee]

Also normal zoos don't tend to intentionally engineer bioweapons under the guise of entertainment. That's really where JW went wrong.

You clearly haven't been to zoos recently.

[Aedilred]

Richelieu is trying to defend France from the power of England's prime minister Buckingham.

In the novel, Richelieu is barely even a villain. He's at best a designated antagonist. It starts out with D'Artagnan being told "Cardinal Richelieu's the man; you should do what he tells you" and ends with him appreciating that that advice was basically accurate. But in the middle he gets caught up in stuff he doesn't understand and falls in with a crowd who dislike the Cardinal on the grounds of little more than most football rivalries.

There is a film version which reflects this (the Michael Yorke version, I think). Somewhat surprisingly Dogtanian, of all adaptations, had a reasonable stab at it later in its run. But most films can't cope with that level of complexity and just make the Cardinal an outright villain.

[Rogar Demonblud]

If there's an outright villain in the 3 Musketeers, it's Lady de Winter. It's just that most producers don't have the imagination for a female main villain.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Also normal zoos don't tend to intentionally engineer bioweapons under the guise of entertainment. That's really where JW went wrong.

That's true. But even that one wouldn't have gone anywhere if their response to a dinosaur seemingly missing from its enclosure wouldn't have been to open up the dinosaur sized gate build for the express purpose of letting the dinosaur in and out. Or, you know, if the zookeepers would have been told that the species was designed to camouflage itself. Or even if anyone had payed attention to how intelligent the creature seemed. It's (not counting the Indominus itself, because the cloning science was always the science fiction element of the movies) more believable than the first movie (still a great film, but the message is rubbish because their "inevitable" disaster from messing with life was super preventable) but it's still not a great situation, and I would still super fire the person who designed those protocols.

No, if anything we would all die from ancient viruses preserved in the dino DNA, or even just parts of it that were incorporated by modern viruses. That's at least sort of feasible. We're way too good at dealing with large animals. We've been hunting tyrannosaurus sized creatures to extinction since at least the last ice age.

[Aedilred]

That's true. But even that one wouldn't have gone anywhere if their response to a dinosaur seemingly missing from its enclosure wouldn't have been to open up the dinosaur sized gate build for the express purpose of letting the dinosaur in and out.

That wasn't the "official" response, mind. That only happened because people (somewhat inexplicably, but through a human-sized door) went into the paddock to have a look around and found themselves trapped, then panicked and opened the main door to get out. HQ ordered the door closed almost immediately but by then it was too late.

[comicshorse]

In the novel, Richelieu is barely even a villain. He's at best a designated antagonist. It starts out with D'Artagnan being told "Cardinal Richelieu's the man; you should do what he tells you" and ends with him appreciating that that advice was basically accurate. But in the middle he gets caught up in stuff he doesn't understand and falls in with a crowd who dislike the Cardinal on the grounds of little more than most football rivalries.

There is a film version which reflects this (the Michael Yorke version, I think). Somewhat surprisingly Dogtanian, of all adaptations, had a reasonable stab at it later in its run. But most films can't cope with that level of complexity and just make the Cardinal an outright villain.

In the Michael Yorke version Richelieu, magnificently played by Charlton Heston, is clearly doing his best to defend France while it has an idiot on the throne. The plot to disgrace the Queen will destroy the Queen's influence but considering she's lovers with France's arch-enemy Buckingham this always seemed a good idea to me.
D'artagnan even comments that Buckingham is his natural enemy ( to Buckingham's face to his credit) and he's only doing this at the request of his lover who is one of the Queen's ladies-in-waiting. But she is Sophia Loren so you can kinda forgive him for working with one of his countries greatest enemies

[Mightymosy]

I donno, my view is that if it's eating me, it's not really pre-historic. I mean I'm about to be historic, and since the beast seems set on outliving me...

Awesome


ETA:

Pterosaurs are definitely not birds, and also not dinosaurs. They are reptiles, though. The Mosasaurus is also a reptile but not a dinosaur (and it's not a fish or anything silly like that).

Zara's (that's her name, guys) death was horrifying. But at least the Mosasaurus ended the torturous part. The Mosasaurus was the real hero of Jurassic World, btw, what with finally eating the I-Rex at the end. Happily, we'll see more Mosasaurus adventures in the next movie, as it goes surfing (and we'll follow more of Rexy's adventures as she roars at a lion and does other less interesting things).

I completely forgot about that one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1XF...ZqU2l&index=35
It gives a pretty reasonable explanation why poor Zara character had to die.

[tomandtish]

"We made them larger, more aggressive, and carnivorous"
"Why would you do that?"
"...Because I'm a scientist. It's what we do!"

(Bonus points to place the quote).

Clue one: Dina Meyer.

[dps]

D'artagnan even comments that Buckingham is his natural enemy ( to Buckingham's face to his credit) and he's only doing this at the request of his lover who is one of the Queen's ladies-in-waiting. But she is Sophia Loren so you can kinda forgive him for working with one of his countries greatest enemies

Wrong sex symbol. It was Raquel Welch.

[comicshorse]

Wrong sex symbol. It was Raquel Welch.

Yep. You're right. D'Oh

[Mightymosy]

Wrong sex symbol. It was Raquel Welch.

So, appearantly some ladies had fun wearing the Leia outfit
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000079/

[snowblizz]

Zara's (that's her name, guys) death was horrifying. But at least the Mosasaurus ended the torturous part. The Mosasaurus was the real hero of Jurassic World, btw, what with finally eating the I-Rex at the end. Happily, we'll see more Mosasaurus adventures in the next movie, as it goes surfing (and we'll follow more of Rexy's adventures as she roars at a lion and does other less interesting things).

Spoiler: JW:Fallen Kingdom spoiler

Show

Ah no, no we are not.

[Glorthindel]

Or, you know, if the zookeepers would have been told that the species was designed to camouflage itself.

This was really a grade-A balls-up across the board. Aside from the fact that it might be worthwhile to inform the people watching for escaping dinosaurs, not to panic when the IR seems to suddenly vanish, the ability to fundamentally turn invisible is an absolutely god awful trait to grant to a creature that’s intended to be the next main exhibit.

Granted that the military-grade enhancements of the IR were deliberately being kept quiet from the JW staff, but you would have thought they would have kept one eye on making sure it still fulfilled its role as an exhibit (since otherwise its going to raise questions along the lines of “why did you create a giant invisible monster that none of our patrons can actually see most of the time?” that might flag up to the JW staff that something is going on they aren’t being told about).

[Spacewolf]

To be honest it sounded like the designer was as surprised as anyone else that the I-Rex could do that.

[Rater202]

IIRC, they gave it cuttlefish DNA in an attempt to speed up it's growth to full maturity and were surprised that it came out with camo, let alone camo better than the animal it got it from.

[The New Bruceski]

IIRC, they gave it cuttlefish DNA in an attempt to speed up it's growth to full maturity and were surprised that it came out with camo, let alone camo better than the animal it got it from.

If only they'd read the first book they'd have learned that's exactly how fictional DNA splicing works.

[Mechalich]

IIRC, they gave it cuttlefish DNA in an attempt to speed up it's growth to full maturity and were surprised that it came out with camo, let alone camo better than the animal it got it from.

What's more ridiculous is that they then subsequently did not put the I-Rex down as a hatchling. Cloning is a messy process with a low success rate (in the Dolly the Sheep method commonly used now, it's something like 1-10% viability chance). It's going to spit out all sorts of weirdness. The point was even made explicitly in The Lost World novel.

'Hey, this thing's got chromatophores all over its skin' is something you'd notice very shortly after birth. The natural response to that as an unplanned outcome involves an injection, skinning, and a whole lot of extra DNA analysis, not letting the thing grown to adulthood; a process that, cuttlefish DNA or not, surely took years, which ought to have revealed the animal as a problem specimen to be euthanized much earlier.

[Rater202]

Looking some stuff up and reviewing, apparently, Wu and Hoskins mistreated the Indominus on purpose expecting it to get loose and rampage.

Either as a demonstration of the Indominus' use as a terror weapon or else to demonstrate the effectiveness of trained raptors.

So making the Indominus was still stupid and impractical, but at least it's stupid and impractical in a logical way.

Also, even if they hadn't been deliberately making a monster and releasing it as a terror weapon, people might be hesitant to put down a live animal that they presumably spent millions* at the least to bring into the world, even for completely practical reasons.

*In EU materials, it's mentioned that the Embryos that Nedry stole were worst between 2 and 10 million USD a pop. Adjust for almost two decades of inflation, factor in that a hybrid like the Indominus is going to require multiple fossil samples and more advanced splicing technique... So yeah, Dodgson did cheap out offering him a million to steal a couple, and being underpaid was what made Nedry willing to shut down the park and steal the embryos in the first place, so Irony.

[snowblizz]

people might be hesitant to put down a live animal that they presumably spent millions* at the least to bring into the world, even for completely practical reasons.

40 millions. It's mentioned specifically as to why not bringing out the big guns right at the start.

It would seem the margins of the park are slim enough that tanking 40 million is gonna hurt. Which I guess is also ironic. They are not making money hand over fist as the Lawyer in JP1 predicted.

[Rater202]

Hell.

Even if they could afford iit easily... 40 million is a lot.

40 million is probably several years worth of salary for the highest paid employees of the park. Hell, it's probably several years salary for the combined investors
Even if you can afford it easily...

I don't care if you make several billion dollars a year, you're not gonna flush 40 million down the toilet.

[snowblizz]

Hell.

Even if they could afford iit easily... 40 million is a lot.

40 million is probably several years worth of salary for the highest paid employees of the park. Hell, it's probably several years salary for the combined investors
Even if you can afford it easily...

I don't care if you make several billion dollars a year, you're not gonna flush 40 million down the toilet.

40 million is a lot. To those who do not have 40 million.

Actually the highest paid employee at the park would have been Claire (director or CEO or some such), and I wouldn't be surpised if she earned 40 million a year on her own. Then again she's a woman so I guess would only get 20. Interestingly though they are trying to sell the naming rights to some phonecompany. They also talk about mundanity of a dinopark and falling visitor numbers. So it's not such a smash hit as it once was. Which I thought was an intresting point made in JW1

You aren't an investor in JW if 40 million represents a lot of money. And if you are, get a better financial planner.

However what we should put that 40 million up against is this: How much money is an indemnity lawsuit gonna cost the park?
JP1 tells us it is enough that the first movie happened. And that's just some noname worker.

Obviously they weren't expecting all of this to happen. But they have a point where they could try and kill the I Rex more easily but decide against it cause 40 million. Bad call. Obviously park was doomed anyway we find out later.