Ansom must die? The Vital Arkenplier

[Moechi_Vill]

With the loss of 6+ dwagons Ansom should be able to take Gobwin Knob with little to no siege, even if he loses Charlie's Archons, Gillian and the Gwiffons to the ongoing battle.

Thus Stanley must either flee with his command corpse, possible the mages and all other viable resources or he must sacrifice his remaining dwagons to take the Arkenpliers.

I was wrong about them not attacking the Dwagons. Apparently Rob and Jamie intend to surprise us. I think Ansom will die. That would be surprising and it might effectively put an end to this first installment in the Erfworld series bu turning the siege.

[jindra34]

Unfortunately the Arkenpliers will not win the war. so taking them would still involve fleeing.

[Tirian]

Stanley has nowhere to flee to. This is his last city. He could evidently get out if he wanted to, but only as a private individual. No army, no treasury.

I predict that GK definitely winds up with the Arkenpliers at the end of the arc.I don't know if that will require Ansom's death, but I hope not. Jillian has sacrificed a lot out of her love for him, and I'd just feel better if he were able to enjoy a long and prosperous second career somewhere far away from the front lines.

[Theodoriph]

With the loss of 6+ dwagons Ansom should be able to take Gobwin Knob with little to no siege, even if he loses Charlie's Archons, Gillian and the Gwiffons to the ongoing battle.

With little to no siege, it doesn't matter how many dwagons Stanley loses, Ansom will still need to go through the tunnels. While attacking Gobwin Knob, Ansom will not receive the terrain bonus that Parson did in the forest. Any of Stanley's unit will be able to attack his fliers (bows, slings, javelins, rocks etc.) and bring them down. So if Ansom is left with little siege but an intact air force, it won't be enough to allow him to take the city without marching through whatever tunnel defenses Bogroll and Parson have devised.

[SteveMB]

So if Ansom is left with little siege but an intact air force, it won't be enough to allow him to take the city without marching through whatever tunnel defenses Bogroll and Parson have devised.

I assume you mean Sizemore -- Bogroll did make a nice set of armor, but I think that devising city fortifications is a bit beyond him.

[jindra34]

With little to no siege, it doesn't matter how many dwagons Stanley loses, Ansom will still need to go through the tunnels. While attacking Gobwin Knob, Ansom will not receive the terrain bonus that Parson did in the forest. Any of Stanley's unit will be able to attack his fliers (bows, slings, javelins, rocks etc.) and bring them down. So if Ansom is left with little siege but an intact air force, it won't be enough to allow him to take the city without marching through whatever tunnel defenses Bogroll and Parson have devised.

The airforce of the alliance is huge. It was estimated to be able to take the dwagons on with a little guidence. therefore i doubt the ground forces of gobwin knob can deal with the air without Dwagons.

[yoshi927]

Ansom stands to lose alot of his fliers, and he himself is still stuck in the pincer with the B-Dwagons. Stanley's still got a good chance here.

[Moechi_Vill]

If the Arkenpliers are seized by one attuned to them on the GK side then anything could happen.

[Takila]

Considering that the first arc is titled 'The Battle for Gobwin Knob', it would make sense for said battle to happen before the end of the arc.

[Moechi_Vill]

Rob and Jamie seem to be subverting tropes. At this points I believe I'm seeing certain inclinations and trends towards the notable tropes 'anything can happen' and 'anybody can die'. We may be witnessing the battle of Gobwin Knob, the nearest large settlement - battles often take on incorrect names.

Add in the fact that they had previously said they'd be done with this arc by the end of summer. Unless I'm mistaken and they meant the summer of '08 then they are already a bit late in total terms.

[SteveMB]

Add in the fact that they had previously said they'd be done with this arc by the end of summer. Unless I'm mistaken and they meant the summer of '08 then they are already a bit late in total terms.

I don't think that's the case. The original plan was for 1)about 96 pages and 2)presenting two pages per week. Subtracting out the initial six-page block, that gives a total time of about 45 weeks, starting in early December 2006 (the News post announcing the beginning of the comic is dated 12/7/06).

Now I ain't a Mathamancer, but I'm pretty sure that 45 weeks from early December is somewhere in October, which is a bit beyond "the end of summer".

[Jade_Tarem]

Y'know, the only one claiming that Stanley is attuned (or will be able to attune) to the Arkenpliers is Stanley himself. It wouldn't be stretching a point to say he might be leaping to conclusions ("You're the greatest warlord ever, therefore you already know all the mechanics of this universe" is typical, flawed Stanley logic, and shares a similar structure with the argument "The Arkenhammer is attuned to me, therefore all the Arkentools will be").

What if the person the arkenpliers attune to is someone else? It could be anyone... Wanda? Parson? Sizemore? Vinny? How about Jillian? Did Ansom ever let her near his tool?

[Tirian]

How about Jillian? Did Ansom ever let her near his tool?

Ansom seemed to want that, but she preferred to bivouac in the field.

[Theodoriph]

The airforce of the alliance is huge. It was estimated to be able to take the dwagons on with a little guidence. therefore i doubt the ground forces of gobwin knob can deal with the air without Dwagons.

Of course they can. It's easy as pie. The one flaw with the alliance airforce (and with Gobwin Knob's) is the lack of bombers. Neither side has shown any bomber capability (The only unit that has shown bomber capability is the yellow dragon...and that may have been just for humour). Ansom's lack of bombers (thus far) combined with Stanley's mancer setup vastly reduces the disadvantages of lacking air superiority.

I mean it's all well and good for the alliance to have air superiority, but if they have to engage in melee combat to do damage, they can be picked off just like any ground unit. If the designer of Gobwin Knob was intelligeht, there are likely fortifications that can be used against air attacks where archers can shoot at incoming air units without being able to be attacked.

(I've wondered from the beginning why those griffon riders don't have bows,,,only swords...it's mindboggling)

[jindra34]

Of course they can. It's easy as pie. The one flaw with the alliance airforce (and with Gobwin Knob's) is the lack of bombers. Neither side has shown any bomber capability (The only unit that has shown bomber capability is the yellow dragon...and that may have been just for humour). Ansom's lack of bombers (thus far) combined with Stanley's mancer setup vastly reduces the disadvantages of lacking air superiority.

I mean it's all well and good for the alliance to have air superiority, but if they have to engage in melee combat to do damage, they can be picked off just like any ground unit.

(I've wondered from the beginning why those griffon riders don't back bows...why swords?)

umm... did you not read the rules statement that allowed parson's trick? it pretty much made all the dwagons in to bombers. So unless parson gets rid of all of ansom's warlords he is doomed.

[Theodoriph]

No, the dragons were not bombers...at least not judging by the arrows sticking out of them. It'd be even worse for the gwiffons...they seem to use a bite attack

[jindra34]

No, the dragons were not bombers...at least not judging by the arrows sticking out of them.

read the last klog please. then start commenting.

[Theodoriph]

Is that your only riposte? You direct me to a klog that has little to a theoretical attack on a fortified city by sword wielding soldiers on mounts that bite.

The purpose of air superiority is to remain out of range and attack, not to throw it away by engaging in melee combat. Ansom's air force seems to be comprised of fighters. They can engage other air units well enough, but when attempting to engage ground units, they're basically reduced to being...well...other ground units. Of course, he may have an ace up his sleeve that we haven't seen yet.

[jindra34]

Is that your only riposte? You direct me to a klog that has little to a theoretical attack on a fortified city by sword wielding soldiers on mounts that bite.

The klog explains how air units with a warlord interact with non-archer ground units. so i think it is a proper response.
Also i suspect that ansom's airforce alone would be enough to take out the infantry of gobwin knob.

[Theodoriph]

Oh I understand now. You're claiming Ansom can defeat Gobwin Knob by having his air foce merely fly around and not attack anything. After all, I think you'd agree that sword wielding units on biting mounts aren't ranged fighters...well unless they start throwing their swords at their enemies.

I guess I was misled when you stated, "therefore i doubt the ground forces of gobwin knob can deal with the air without Dwagons." But I understand perfectly now sir, and you are quite correct. Gobwin Knob's non-archer units cannot deal with Ansom's air force if they do not attack Gobwin Knob. Of course in such a situation, most of Ansom's air force is reduced to looking pretty. My error was believing an attack was implied by your comment. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I thank you for this enlightening discussion sir.

[ag30476]

With the loss of 6+ dwagons Ansom should be able to take Gobwin Knob with little to no siege, even if he loses Charlie's Archons, Gillian and the Gwiffons to the ongoing battle.

Thus Stanley must either flee with his command corpse, possible the mages and all other viable resources or he must sacrifice his remaining dwagons to take the Arkenpliers.

I was wrong about them not attacking the Dwagons. Apparently Rob and Jamie intend to surprise us. I think Ansom will die. That would be surprising and it might effectively put an end to this first installment in the Erfworld series bu turning the siege.

I've been thinking something like that has to happen ever since Stanley said Ansom was "bringing" the Arkenpliers to him. I've been predicting Ansom to go off and merrily sac himself and the pliers to save the seige for more than a dozen strips now but of course I've been wrong every time

[Jade_Tarem]

Oh I understand now. You're claiming Ansom can defeat Gobwin Knob by having his air foce merely fly around and not attack anything. After all, I think you'd agree that sword wielding units on biting mounts aren't ranged fighters...well unless they start throwing their swords at their enemies.

I guess I was misled when you stated, "therefore i doubt the ground forces of gobwin knob can deal with the air without Dwagons." But I understand perfectly now sir, and you are quite correct. Gobwin Knob's non-archer units cannot deal with Ansom's air force if they do not attack Gobwin Knob. Of course in such a situation, most of Ansom's air force is reduced to looking pretty. My error was believing an attack was implied by your comment. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I thank you for this enlightening discussion sir.

Actually, the only riposte needed is this.

Jillian can take 'em all. After all, she can croak a small army with a pair of chopsticks.

I think that counts as attacking.

[Moechi_Vill]

I can see Rob and Jamie wrapping up the actual battle in a few pages but I'd be disappointing after all these details paid to sub-events so I hope it is not going to happen.

[Ygrane]

The klog explains how air units with a warlord interact with non-archer ground units. so i think it is a proper response.

You're going to have to spell it out for Theodoriph.