Devil May Cry 5

[Winthur]

Nobody's been able to give me a reason for hating DmC Dante, other than "He's not Classic Dante". It's always just unexplained insults and nonstop vitriol.

The media narrative at the time was really pushing the "whiny manbabies don't want to play a new, cooler game. Old Dante was going out of style, NuDante is modern and hip" narrative, even though someone actually completed an entire canvas of people's very well-founded complaints about the poor combat system, dumbed-down mechanics, and writing being in extremely poor taste - and, before someone asks, the tone of these complaints was extremely civil. Nobody really was this mad about hair color, it's a fabrication. The game wasn't good, it was a step-down from the old DMC, and none of those elaborate explanations for why DmC is lacking have been actually addressed by anyone - instead we just got insults and nonstop vitriol from the people who defended the game.

Dante was all about CUHRAZY, over-the-top action.
Donte's incessant swearing became a meme, and he also goes with a plan that involves aborting a baby with a high-caliber sniper rifle. Why? For the edge.
Quite a far cry from the guy who just liked to eat pizza and kill stuff.
Even Dante, who had a hard life, man, was, ultimately, a positive character.
Donte feels like he's written as an anti-hero, some sorta mix between Jake Paul and Vegeta.

DmC's aesthetic simply lacks taste. It's depressing in a way. Really bleak, and features scenes like above. The humour is mean-spirited and "adult". Donte and Vergil, at one point, exchange a casual remark about one or the other having a bigger penis.

Now, Nero? I'm glad he's distinguished a bit from his uncle. The new look suits him. I'm confident he's just going to look like a Dante for the new generation. I'm also confident his dialogue will not consist entirely of edgy swearing.

[Delicious Taffy]

I'm seeing your points, and, like, I get them. But DmC is a fun game with a solid story, interesting characters, and a spectacular soundtrack. The combat is fast and responsive, the jokes at Classic DMC's expense are all in good fun, there's not a single gag that lasts too long, and the villains are all memorable and enjoyable.

It's like we played two completely different games, or something.

[Rynjin]

It's almost like people can have different tastes or something.

Stop trying to start fights with statements like that; you already almost derailed your own thread once.

[Delicious Taffy]

It's almost like people can have different tastes or something.

Stop trying to start fights with statements like that; you already almost derailed your own thread once.

I'm not trying to start fights. Let's not read more intentions I didn't have into my words. I'm well aware that other people have different tastes. But I'm also allowed to share my own and inquire about others'.

We'd just established a back-and-forth, but I guess I'm not allowed to do my half of that, without instantly being accused of almost derailing the thread a second time by staying on-topic.

[Winthur]

It's like we played two completely different games, or something.

Nah. DmC very well might be a fun distraction, since it's really hard to make a game with responsive controls that's about slaying monsters not at least somewhat fun to play - but it was also a significant step-down from the mechanics and tone of the previous games, and a lot of people didn't like that. It wouldn't even be seen as anything other than the Hitman Absolution or Thi4f of its franchise, as in, an ultimately failed reboot that didn't mesh too well with fans, had a decentish reception from everyone else, was ultimately forgotten, and would either kill the franchise or force the developer to promise his fans something better.

Like, sure, it's not the worst game in the world. It's probably fairly okay as a stand-alone. It might even be a good introduction to this genre for someone who never played these kinda games. It definitely has elements that can be generally likable. But that same thing can be said about Star Trek Enterprise or Attack of the Clones - it will still be rightfully put through scrutiny and people who are invested in those games will want something better if the new thing is subpar. And hey, it had a Definitive Edition which probably fixed many of its issues! I wouldn't know myself, since I didn't check, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

And it would be all fine and dandy. When DMC4 was released and ultimately disappointed the most hardcore DMC fans, because it was a bit of a stepdown from DMC3, it was just expressed here and there on the fora, and people moved on.

When DmC was released, oh yes, there was hate and vitriol.
Just not from the fans.
Photoshopping old Dante onto a still from Brokeback Mountain as a justification for the new design is definitely not in good taste or faith. Old Dante might have been tacky or whatever else you'd like to say, but this is something on the level of "lol ur mom gay". How did they get away with this, anyway?
The game director, who looks suspiciously much like the new Dante, wasn't very civil in addressing the legitimate concerns about the game.
Just to make sure that their voice isn't buried under the absolute piledrive of insults and an outright war against the fandom, people actually compiled their legitimate grievances to illustrate their point and contrasted it against the venom from some of those very well-founded and researched articles.

DmC would have been absolutely cool as a failed experiment, and still alright as its own, little game. It would be best if it was its own IP without the DMC title on it to completely avoid any of the failed expectations, but c'est la vie. It had all the potential to be a nice, little, 6/10 or 7/10 game.

But no, it had to be more than that, and now, whenever I hear about any sort of supposed horrible fandom reaction to some completely innocent thing, I tend to take it with a grain of salt.

That's pretty much all that the drama surrounding DmC was about. The developer was a huge dingus and the blatant astroturfing surrounding it caused people to get reactionary. This is why DmC is so divisive - moreso than DMC4 or even DMC2, which is considered a plain bad game for many reasons. It couldn't just stay as its own little creation.

IN OTHER NEWS:

[Delicious Taffy]

the Hitman Absolution [...] of its franchise

That... actually made me understand. It all makes so much more sense, from that angle.

[Zevox]

Nero is not Dante-Lite, I'm pretty sure of that. His wit is much more dry and sarcastic, and Dante's all in your face and laughing it up. While they're both somewhat laid-back, Dante doesn't take anything seriously by the time 4 rolls around, the whole Saviour thing was a day in the office for him, and Nero is quite serious about most things, reserving his attempts at humor for demons and antagonists.

The motorcycle sword is quite easy and extremely satisfying to use after you've figured out how to do it.

So, you're saying that the main difference is just that Nero's serious more of the time, even though overall they're both laid-back... but that doesn't strike you as meeting the description "Dante Lite?" Agree to disagree I suppose.

In any case, my point is that, to me, he feels superfluous. For example, since the reboot I've occasionally thought about what I'd like to see out of a DMC5 if we ever got it, and honestly, Nero never entered into the equation. Not because I actively wanted to exclude him or anything, but because he just doesn't come to mind when I think about Devil May Cry, what I like about it, and what I'd like to see out of it. Dante, Vergil, Trish, and Lady do, but Nero is easily forgotten compared to them, at least to me. Even going into this E3 half-expecting to see DMC5 thanks to the persistent rumors about it, it genuinely never occurred to me that Nero might be the centerpiece rather than Dante.

But so be it I suppose. Nero might not be ideal, but as long as Dante's still around and not being totally sidelined, I'll take it. And it's far preferable to more of the reboot, for sure.

Nobody's been able to give me a reason for hating DmC Dante, other than "He's not Classic Dante". It's always just unexplained insults and nonstop vitriol.

"He's not Classic Dante" is a big deal to a lot of fans. Dante is a big part of what drew a lot of people to the series in the first place - the whole cornball style to him, starting in the unintentional-so-bad-its-good of the first game and continued in the this-time-it's-intentionally-silly third and fourth. Ditching that style is DmC's greatest sin, and the rebooted Dante is the poster child for it. So of course people hate him - had the reboot been successful and replaced the series, he'd have killed what a lot of us love about it.

But DmC is a fun game with a solid story, interesting characters, and a spectacular soundtrack.

While you're entitled to your opinion, plenty disagree with it. I would say it was a decent game with an awful story, annoying characters, and... I guess a forgettable soundtrack, since I genuinely don't remember any of that. The gameplay's fairly good though, if not up to DMC3/4 standards. It just really should have been its own thing, rather than have any connection to Devil May Cry - then it could just be a game with a small cadre of fans, rather than one with so many that hate it.

the jokes at Classic DMC's expense are all in good fun,

They do not come off that way, particularly given the atmosphere surrounding the game of fans of the originals hating the whole aesthetic of the reboot while those who wanted to like the reboot condescended to them.

[Mikemical]

Nobody's been able to give me a reason for hating DmC Dante, other than "He's not Classic Dante". It's always just unexplained insults and nonstop vitriol.

That depends on what you consider a valid reason.

Spoiler: Here's mine on why DmC was a bad Devil May Cry game, and a mediocre action game

Show

- 30 FPS limit: Combat feels slow and sluggish when compared to predecessors (DMC3 and 4) or competitors (Metal Gear Rising, Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden Sigma). Not to mention the slowdown on combo finishers causing the flow of combat to come to a stop, instead of jumping to the next target.
- Bad enemy (combat) design: When 90% of the enemies can be roflstomped with the demon dodge buff + axe combo alone, and the remaining 10% are immune to the axe because of a gimmick that can be bypassed by Devil Trigger, that's not good, or challenging.
- No lock on: In a game where you're gonna have to be constantly jumping and dashing, the inability to keep track of what the character is seeing is fatal, let alone that you can't pick your targets, rather swing in the general direction of one and hope the game assumes which one you were aiming for.
- Levels are empty outside of combat segments: The amount of wide hallways with not even so much as a breakable object in them is far greater than the few memorable combats throughout the campaign.
- Forced platforming sections: Combine this with a lackluster camera control, and you get plenty of levels where you're almost making the jump, but never quite getting it.
- Terrible color scheme: I legit can't play this game for longer than an hour before I have to take a break. The absurd contrast between orange and blue, while giving the game some impact, is also stressful on the eyes and drowns out the action. Lillith's club is the worst offender.
- QTEs: While not as bad as "Press X to not die", there's several segments where the only way forward is by doing glorified interaction segments (like in the car mission with Kat and Vergil) or get sent back to the last continue.
- Keyboard and mouse controls: DMC4 only used keyboard, and plays far better in comparison. I had to remap the controls to only use the keyboard, but having to hold down the demon/angel buttons means I will be hitting a key input limit eventually and the game simply won't accept my inputs.
- Story is unoriginal: It's basically They Live! but without the charm.
- Takes itself way too seriously: Devil May Cry has always been campy, cringy fun you can't help but snicker at. Trading snarky-one liners for typical brodude insults, the lack of a taunt button, or overall any fun cutscenes or missions keeps the mood always on the low. The only boss fight that was entertaining was Bob Barbas'.

Spoiler: And why DmC Dante is a bad character

Show

- Unlikable personality: While classic Dante is arrogant and cocky, his tone is always playful and jovial. Contrast DmC Dante, where everything he says is mean-spirited, kind of like an angry 13-year old arguing with you on Xbox Live, and has about as much depth and vocabulary.
- Unappealing story: He's basically an abused dog that lashes out at anything and anyone. The whole "work alone, trust issues" line isn't cool or badass when said by a scrawny-looking chav. Contrast the original Dante that had a similarly tragic backstory, is a confirmed alcoholic, but can still crack one-liners and smile goofily while taunting the 20' tall god-statue.
- U-turns because of a girl: Dante goes from not caring one bit about Vergil or Kat to "WE CAN'T JUST LEAVE HER" over the span of two missions. Whatever character development people might think there is, happens way too abruptly to be considered any good. Kinda like how Belkar roleplayed some backstory for some XP. Contrast Dante in DMC3, where over the lenght of the game, he goes from devil-may-care only in it for the fun to actually caring about his remaining family.

Oh yes, and in case you were wondering just how badly DmC did in the long run, Ninja Theory had to sell Dante's model to people who make dental health videos. This is not a joke.

[Olinser]

That depends on what you consider a valid reason.

Spoiler: Here's mine on why DmC was a bad Devil May Cry game, and a mediocre action game

Show

- 30 FPS limit: Combat feels slow and sluggish when compared to predecessors (DMC3 and 4) or competitors (Metal Gear Rising, Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden Sigma). Not to mention the slowdown on combo finishers causing the flow of combat to come to a stop, instead of jumping to the next target.
- Bad enemy (combat) design: When 90% of the enemies can be roflstomped with the demon dodge buff + axe combo alone, and the remaining 10% are immune to the axe because of a gimmick that can be bypassed by Devil Trigger, that's not good, or challenging.
- No lock on: In a game where you're gonna have to be constantly jumping and dashing, the inability to keep track of what the character is seeing is fatal, let alone that you can't pick your targets, rather swing in the general direction of one and hope the game assumes which one you were aiming for.
- Levels are empty outside of combat segments: The amount of wide hallways with not even so much as a breakable object in them is far greater than the few memorable combats throughout the campaign.
- Forced platforming sections: Combine this with a lackluster camera control, and you get plenty of levels where you're almost making the jump, but never quite getting it.
- Terrible color scheme: I legit can't play this game for longer than an hour before I have to take a break. The absurd contrast between orange and blue, while giving the game some impact, is also stressful on the eyes and drowns out the action. Lillith's club is the worst offender.
- QTEs: While not as bad as "Press X to not die", there's several segments where the only way forward is by doing glorified interaction segments (like in the car mission with Kat and Vergil) or get sent back to the last continue.
- Keyboard and mouse controls: DMC4 only used keyboard, and plays far better in comparison. I had to remap the controls to only use the keyboard, but having to hold down the demon/angel buttons means I will be hitting a key input limit eventually and the game simply won't accept my inputs.
- Story is unoriginal: It's basically They Live! but without the charm.
- Takes itself way too seriously: Devil May Cry has always been campy, cringy fun you can't help but snicker at. Trading snarky-one liners for typical brodude insults, the lack of a taunt button, or overall any fun cutscenes or missions keeps the mood always on the low. The only boss fight that was entertaining was Bob Barbas'.

Spoiler: And why DmC Dante is a bad character

Show

- Unlikable personality: While classic Dante is arrogant and cocky, his tone is always playful and jovial. Contrast DmC Dante, where everything he says is mean-spirited, kind of like an angry 13-year old arguing with you on Xbox Live, and has about as much depth and vocabulary.
- Unappealing story: He's basically an abused dog that lashes out at anything and anyone. The whole "work alone, trust issues" line isn't cool or badass when said by a scrawny-looking chav. Contrast the original Dante that had a similarly tragic backstory, is a confirmed alcoholic, but can still crack one-liners and smile goofily while taunting the 20' tall god-statue.
- U-turns because of a girl: Dante goes from not caring one bit about Vergil or Kat to "WE CAN'T JUST LEAVE HER" over the span of two missions. Whatever character development people might think there is, happens way too abruptly to be considered any good. Kinda like how Belkar roleplayed some backstory for some XP. Contrast Dante in DMC3, where over the lenght of the game, he goes from devil-may-care only in it for the fun to actually caring about his remaining family.

Oh yes, and in case you were wondering just how badly DmC did in the long run, Ninja Theory had to sell Dante's model to people who make dental health videos. This is not a joke.

Agree on the characters. At it's core, classic Dante acts like a cocky, arrogant, ***hole because he thinks its funny and he's trolling people/demons he's about to kill. DmC Dante acts like a cocky, arrogant ***hole because he IS a cocky, arrogant, ***hole.

Story I was pretty neutral on. It was pretty standard reboot stuff - although I thought both DmC Vergil AND Dante had sudden massive character swerves that just weren't justified. It kind of felt like the game was supposed to be much longer and they cut out missions in the middle that were supposed to walk them more slowly through the character development, but then they cut out a whole bunch of the middle without actually changing the beginning or end so they just have sudden huge personality swings that aren't really adequately explained.

Disagree somewhat on the gameplay, though. I thought that the DmC combat flowed a lot better than the previous DMC games and I enjoyed the combat the most. That's not to say I didn't enjoy all the games, but I thought the combat system in DmC was just better done than the previous games.

Agree on the platforming, though, it was just TERRIBLE - although I can't stand 3D platforming in general in any game. It's either zoomed in so far you can't actually see the platform you're standing on and where you're jumping to at the same time, which makes it very difficult to time long jumps properly, or the camera is far enough out and 3D model is imprecise enough that its very hard to tell how far you can actually move forward without falling off. So functionally this always ends in such forgiving jumps they may as well not even exist, or jumps far too precise for the actual models involved.

[Mikemical]

Photoshopping old Dante onto a still from Brokeback Mountain as a justification for the new design is definitely not in good taste or faith. Old Dante might have been tacky or whatever else you'd like to say, but this is something on the level of "lol ur mom gay". How did they get away with this, anyway?

Because the media hates gamers ever since Gamergate and Pizzagate happened, and back in 2012, LGBT-issues didn't have the same weight as they do nowadays. You could get away with using "gay" as a substitute for "dumb", "silly", etc, and nobody would bat an eye. Do that today, you get crucified. Didn't help that the most noticeable initial change was Dante's hair, so that's what they grabbed on to to shoot down detractors, so no matter the validity of your complaints, they would always be met with "lol you just hate it because of Dante's hair, cry some more :v". It was literally the media siding with NT just because they pissed off the fans of the saga on purpose.

The few people it did impress weren't into these type of games before, and failed to grab the established playerbase, so after MGR:Revenegeance came out, it was forgotten. Heck, even DmCmods, the official site for DmC: Devil May Cry mods, got pulled down not even a year after the game's release.

However, a few good things did come out of that dumpster fire:

[Ignimortis]

However, a few good things did come out of that dumpster fire:

Thanks for reminding me this exists. This mod actually turned the game funny.

[David_Bautis]

Hi folks! anyone guide me what configuration need for playing this game on PC.

[Olinser]

Hi folks! anyone guide me what configuration need for playing this game on PC.

[Ignimortis]

Devil my cry series has exhausted itself on the 3rd part. And the restart of the game DMC was just fine, in terms of gameplay and with a good storyline

4 has extremely good mechanics, even if the storyline was kinda lacking due to them basically having to cut half the game because of management's demands. It's telling that DMC 4 is still played in various "style" competitions - there's no game that's deeper mechanically and still fun to watch.

The reboot had terrible unlikeable characters, bad mechanics mixed with good ones (colored enemies are BS in a game like this, demon evade is OP, but parrying feels nice, I guess), and the plot was even less entertaining than 4.