Final Book Speculation: The Fate of Goblinoids and the Journey to the Pole

[CJG]

The creature in the darkness would need to perceive the situation as "Redcloak has betrayed Xykon" before he would be compelled to act.

At one time, I thought it entirely likely that this would form the punchline of a joke: Redcloak would betray Xykon right in front of the creature, offer him a ridiculously false excuse, and have the creature just say "Oh, okay then," as the prospect of the spell's effect being tripped faded away.

I no longer think that's likely.

Ah, I see. That makes much more sense! Thanks, though I too wonder how he will react to the order when the time comes.

[godsflunky]

Whether or not the MitD was willing to devour Haley & Belkar at Azure City does have some bearing on whether or not he'd switch sides; but his more recent determined effort to save their lives at Girard's Gate, despite knowing nothing about them except that they're friends with O-Chul, speaks rather louder. As O-Chul said, the Monster's a good man. He'll do what's right.


...eventually.

[Derian]

Alright. *Rubs hands together* I suspect that most of these have already been argued on this forum already, maybe some disproven, maybe some invalidated by Word of Giant. But here's what I'm speculating so far, or at least speculating on what may be possible. Some of these may be impossible to happen together of course.

1: Haley is Redcloak's niece, adopted by Ian and disguised or polymorphed to look like a human. (dunno if timeline works out for this.)
2: The MitD is a fragment of the Snarl that escaped during the Order of the Scribble times. He will either rebel against his progenitor or will rejoin with it and introduce the concept of empathy and compassion to it.
3: Redcloak will be attacked or eaten by the MitD when he attempts to cast the ritual (because he'll recognize that the magic isn't what he was told it was, thus constituting the post-hypnotic suggestion or whatever Xykon did to him of 'betrayal'), thus completely screwing it up and doing something really ugly to the Gate in the process.
4: Redcloak will become disillusioned with the Dark One or The Plan but will continue on anyways.
5: There will be a comparison between the evil acts of Redcloak and V. Because while V's biggest sin was horrible and wide-reaching, V also realized that there was no justification or excuse and has shown an intent to make amends as best as possible. Whereas Redcloak is a kinslayer and has tied himself in knots trying to justify his position, nor has he ever repented of it.
6: Oona and O-Chul will become an item. Because hey, I can crack pair too, can't I? Besides, if O-Chul hits Paladin 5 and gets his special mount that gives the two of them something to bond over.
7: The Dark One will forsake Gobbotopia, especially if they decide to do what Right-Eye did and attempt to lift themselves up and co-exist with humans instead of going with The Plan.
8: There will be a slave rebellion inside Gobbotopia, possibly coinciding with the Snarl starting to escape from the rift and consuming huge swaths of the goblin population. (And hearing about this may also contribute to Redcloak growing disillusioned) Ultimately humans and goblins have to work together in order to survive the Snarl's attack, and in the epilogue it turns into a mixed community with both races working in harmony.

[Derian]

Redemption is a special thing; unlike Miko, V has recognized that she/he did something wrong and seeks a way to make restitution. The process may be really difficult, but the sincere faith effort is going to be made based on the conversations with Roy after the battle in the desert.
Redcloak had a similar moment of clarity during the battle for Azure City: wait a sec, what am I doing? I need to behave differently. They both are in the running for a redemption arc, though "easy side quest" will not be how that works out if it does. (The little blurb about redemption that Soon's ghost gives to Miko does a nice job of expressing how Rich sees redemption in these stories.).

That said, I like your idea: V and Redcloak have to perform the ritual together. Not sure if that's what Rich will run with, but it's a neat idea for a twist in the story.

V's fate, I think, ultimately depends on how OotS cosmology works and how different it is from D&D. And how closely linked alignment and final destination are.

Would V be viewed as Evil currently? I note that no one has cast that particular spell in xir presence since The Noncomedic Incident.

[KorvinStarmast]

V's fate, I think, ultimately depends on how OotS cosmology works and how different it is from D&D. And how closely linked alignment and final destination are.

Would V be viewed as Evil currently? I note that no one has cast that particular spell in xir presence since The Noncomedic Incident.

I think that V has clearly expressed a recognition that vir soul is most likely forfeit as a result of that spell and its effects. The discussions with Roy before the arrival in Tinkertown present to us a V who is wrestling with that, and grasping for hope, or a path forward toward making some sort of restitution ... even if incomplete. I think that at present, V is resigned to vir fate and sees that only by saving the world is there any hope for achieving atonement before the eventual passing into the afterlife. This make's V's choosing to stay with the Order now, as opposed to beginning an atonement / pilgrimage towards atonement, a little bit of an exercise in self interest, but also utterly pragmatic. If the world ends within a few days, V can't even try as arrival in the afterlife occurs much sooner than the average elf's, and leaves no time to grind out atonement for such an extraordinary sin.

[hamishspence]

Would V be viewed as Evil currently? I note that no one has cast that particular spell in xir presence since The Noncomedic Incident.

The Giant listed V as True Neutral, and this was around strip 899 - long after the Incident, but quite some time before V started repenting. Though, given that it was post Draketooth Discovery, a bit of repentance may be in play.

Lawful Neutral: Mr. Jones, The CPPD, Kilkil.
Chaotic Neutral: Julio Scoundrél, Jenny, Ian Starshine.
True Neutral: Gannji, Enor, Julia Greenhilt, Vaarsuvius, Mr. Scruffy, Therkla, Right-eye, The Oracle, Hank.
Neutral Evil: Tsukikko, Leeky Windstaff, Pompey, Zz'dtri, Bozzok, Crystal, Grubwiggler, the Snail.
Neutral Good: Lirain, Dorkuan, Kazumi & Daigo.

I'm sure there are others, and some I'm specifically not mentioning.

I think the idea is that V never actually changed alignment throughout that period. Might have come close, but no actual shift.

[ChamHasNoRoom]

V seemed to recognize the foolishness of what they'd done even in the immediate aftermath of losing the soul bond, and saving O-Chul in the immediate aftermath was probably enough of a good act to at least keep them from shifting all the way to Evil.

Re: Final book predictions, I expect that at some point Hinjo is going to be forced to confront the fact that Redcloak has a legitimate grievance against the Sapphire Guard, and Redcloak in turn is going to be forced to confront the fact that the vast majority of humans he hurt at Azure City had nothing to do with it. I don't know if the similarity between the two is going to be the start of a truce or just ultimately show the distinction between them: Hinjo willing to admit fault and try to make amends, and Redcloak not.

[godsflunky]

Re: Final book predictions, I expect that at some point Hinjo is going to be forced to confront the fact that Redcloak has a legitimate grievance against the Sapphire Guard, and Redcloak in turn is going to be forced to confront the fact that the vast majority of humans he hurt at Azure City had nothing to do with it. I don't know if the similarity between the two is going to be the start of a truce or just ultimately show the distinction between them: Hinjo willing to admit fault and try to make amends, and Redcloak not.

You'll want to read "How the Paladin Got His Scar" as soon as you can.

[Tarthalion]

Vector Legion goals is something I don't know, but I fully expect Tarquin's story to end in the last book, and this one may well end in an anti climatic way, as it's the thing Tarquin fears most.

If Tarquin appears in the last book at all, I wouldn't be surprised if Sabine was the instrument of his undoing.

[Derian]

You'll want to read "How the Paladin Got His Scar" as soon as you can.

I really was struck at the irony of Redcloak's treatment of O-Chul after reading a synopsis.

The sad part is that I doubt that he'd have even a second thought of remorse if he'd learned.