sorlock 3/2 or 2/3?

[n00b]

So I finally made up my mind on the class to play and it was none of what I originally considered. Starting at level 5 and I want to be Divine Soul Sorcerer X/Celestial Warlock 2(3).

So now for the questions...

Race? I have half Drow penciled in, but am open to suggestions.

Warlock 2 or 3 to start out? I want to end up at Warlock 3 eventually but not sure when to take that final level. Also what Pact? Considering Tome for the extra cantrips, but really how many cantrips does a person need? Not to mention what works with a NG or CG align?

Also interested on any help or suggestions about a background and backstory. Can the same Otherworldly power be responsible for both my Sorcerer and Warlock abilities?

Any other random suggestions or things I should really know? I've never played a Warlock or Sorcerer either one so it's all new to me.

Thanks.

[Lunali]

For which to take it mostly comes down to whether you want metamagic or your pact boon first, which will also greatly depend on which pact you want to take.

Pact of the blade is probably unlikely so the choice there is between getting one of the special familiars vs the book of other class's cantrips. The book of cantrips by itself is probably not worth completely giving up a familiar for, but it allows you to take book of ancient secrets as one of your invocations, allowing you to learn any level 1-2 (based on your final warlock level of 3) rituals from any class, including find familiar. (normal familiars only) So the choice is between one of the special familiars and the ability to spend an invocation to cast rituals

[Grod_The_Giant]

For a Sorclock, I'd go Sorcerer 1/Warlock 2/Sorcerer +4/Warlock +1. Starting Sorcerer gets you Con save proficiency; two levels of Warlock gives you your offense in short order, and then it's a beeline for an ASI and 3rd level spells.

[Grear Bylls]

Neither. The best coffee-lock build is the Sorcerer king.

[n00b]

Neither. The best coffee-lock build is the Sorcerer king.

Definitely not looking for the coffee-lock build. Mostly interested in the Eldritch Blast and the extra level 2 slots and spells known.

[intregus]

I'd suggest going strait sorc for the first 5 levels to get those lvl 3 spells. Then going into warlock

[thoroughlyS]

Warlock 2 or 3 to start out? I want to end up at Warlock 3 eventually but not sure when to take that final level. Also what Pact?

My recommendation is Sorcerer 2/Warlock 3 for 2nd-level slots which refresh on a short rest. This gives you a nice pool of Sorcery Points to play with. What boon you choose depends on what playstyle you're looking for. From your interest in Pact of the Tome, I assume you want to be utility/support character? If so, it is worth mentioning that you can start with Book of Ancient Shadows as one of your invocations if you go Pact of the Tome.

Race? I have half Drow penciled in, but am open to suggestions.

...

Also interested on any help or suggestions about a background and backstory. Can the same Otherworldly power be responsible for both my Sorcerer and Warlock abilities?

In regards to the source of your powers — absolutely, especially if you go Divine Soul/Celestial. Perhaps your innate spellcasting ability was awoken by a friendly celestial who has elected to mentor you (admittedly somewhat indirectly). If you go Aasimar you'll get the trifecta: your Sorcerous Origin, Otherworldly Patron, and Guardian Angel could all be the same entity (assuming your DM likes the idea). Aasimar also has great synergy, with +2 Cha and a nifty transformation at 3rd level.

For a Sorclock, I'd go Sorcerer 1/Warlock 2/Sorcerer +4/Warlock +1. Starting Sorcerer gets you Con save proficiency; two levels of Warlock gives you your offense in short order, and then it's a beeline for an ASI and 3rd level spells.

Why not just go Sorcerer 2/Warlock 5 at that point? it gets you an ASI and 3rd-level slots faster. That is of course playing the short game. If you want to look at the long game, I'd say the added versatility at 3rd-level Warlock makes up for delaying the Sorcerer progression into Sorcerer 2/Warlock 3/Sorcerer X.

[n00b]

My recommendation is Sorcerer 2/Warlock 3 for 2nd-level slots which refresh on a short rest. This gives you a nice pool of Sorcery Points to play with. What boon you choose depends on what playstyle you're looking for. From your interest in Pact of the Tome, I assume you want to be utility/support character? If so, it is worth mentioning that you can start with Book of Ancient Shadows as one of your invocations if you go Pact of the Tome.

In regards to the source of your powers — absolutely, especially if you go Divine Soul/Celestial. Perhaps your innate spellcasting ability was awoken by a friendly celestial who has elected to mentor you (admittedly somewhat indirectly). If you go Aasimar you'll get the trifecta: your Sorcerous Origin, Otherworldly Patron, and Guardian Angel could all be the same entity (assuming your DM likes the idea). Aasimar also has great synergy, with +2 Cha and a nifty transformation at 3rd level.




Why not just go Sorcerer 2/Warlock 5 at that point? it gets you an ASI and 3rd-level slots faster. That is of course playing the short game. If you want to look at the long game, I'd say the added versatility at 3rd-level Warlock makes up for delaying the Sorcerer progression into Sorcerer 2/Warlock 3/Sorcerer X.

Pact of the Tome with Book of Ancient Shadows was my thinking behind going 3 Warlock, otherwise I would just stop at 2.

I hadn't considered Aasimar at all! That's genius! :)

End game for this campaign is projected at around level 14. That would get me 11 Sorcerer which would let me have a 3rd Metamagic and a 6th level spell slot.

[Quoxis]

Early warlock power spikes are levels 2 and 5; 3 adds your pact feature, but none of them live up to agonizing eldritch blast.
Get your invocations, then abandon the class until you’re sorc 4/5 for metamagic, your first (delayed) ASI, some sorcery points and maybe 3rd level spells before deciding how deep you want to go into warlock.

Sorc 2/lock 3 can only convert slots into sorcery points and vice versa - two second level spell slots from warlock are worth 4 sorcery points, which you can convert into two first level spell slots - if you’re not coffeelocking you’re just exchanging each second level slot for a first level one the only benefit of which is that it can be stored for later - a bad trade in my eyes.

[thoroughlyS]

Sorc 2/lock 3 can only convert slots into sorcery points and vice versa - two second level spell slots from warlock are worth 4 sorcery points, which you can convert into two first level spell slots - if you’re not coffeelocking you’re just exchanging each second level slot for a first level one the only benefit of which is that it can be stored for later - a bad trade in my eyes.

You can convert a 2nd-level spell slot into 3 sorcery points, so a Sorcerer 2/Warlock 3 can freely convert slots to points and vice versa.

[DerficusRex]

You can convert a 2nd-level spell slot into 3 sorcery points, so a Sorcerer 2/Warlock 3 can freely convert slots to points and vice versa.

When you burn a slot for points, you only get points equal to the level of the slot consumed (so 2 points for a level 2 slot), and then it does cost 3 points if you want to create a 2nd level slot.

[samcifer]

As someone who's played a sorlock, I'd definitely say get to sorc + asap. Metamagic is too good to wait on. After that you can go warlock for the next two to get your firepower up. After that, it depends. 3rd level spells are really good, so I'd recommend getting to sorc 5, then do whatever you like for the rest.

[n00b]

I wound up going Sorcerer 3/Warlock 2. To me it gave a little bit of both worlds. I get my agonizing blast to aid in ranged damage. I also get the beginnings of metamagic. I almost went 4/1 to grab the first ASI/feat. Hopefully the next level won't take too long and I'll have a handle on which I'd like to take first. I'm thinking either Elven Accuracy or War Caster.

What I am struggling with currently is what metamagic options to take. Quickened seems obvious to me but trying to narrow it down to either heightened or subtle for the second one. I like heightened but it's rather expensive at the outset.

[samcifer]

I wound up going Sorcerer 3/Warlock 2. To me it gave a little bit of both worlds. I get my agonizing blast to aid in ranged damage. I also get the beginnings of metamagic. I almost went 4/1 to grab the first ASI/feat. Hopefully the next level won't take too long and I'll have a handle on which I'd like to take first. I'm thinking either Elven Accuracy or War Caster.

What I am struggling with currently is what metamagic options to take. Quickened seems obvious to me but trying to narrow it down to either heightened or subtle for the second one. I like heightened but it's rather expensive at the outset.

If you have a few single-target spells, I'd recommend Twinned as it really helps, esp. if you took Hex as a Warlock spell. If you went Divine Soul for sorc origin, I got a lot of great use out of Spiritual Weapon.

As for future levels, I recommend your next two levels be sorc ones to get you those strong lv. 3 spells, then maybe a third level of warlock after for the lv. 2 spell slots. Don't be afraid to cash those on for sorcery points to compensate for the drain on SP Quicken causes.

All this is based off of personal experience. As for Warlock, you'll get more out of Celestial or Fiend than any other. The overlap of Divine Soul and Celestial allows you to take more of the better cleric spells, but it's your build, so go with what you want. I would, however, suggest avoiding Hexblade as the low hp makes melee very risky. Stick to ranged attacks and you'll rarely be targeted.

[n00b]

If you have a few single-target spells, I'd recommend Twinned as it really helps, esp. if you took Hex as a Warlock spell. If you went Divine Soul for sorc origin, I got a lot of great use out of Spiritual Weapon.

As for future levels, I recommend your next two levels be sorc ones to get you those strong lv. 3 spells, then maybe a third level of warlock after for the lv. 2 spell slots. Don't be afraid to cash those on for sorcery points to compensate for the drain on SP Quicken causes.

All this is based off of personal experience. As for Warlock, you'll get more out of Celestial or Fiend than any other. The overlap of Divine Soul and Celestial allows you to take more of the better cleric spells, but it's your build, so go with what you want. I would, however, suggest avoiding Hexblade as the low hp makes melee very risky. Stick to ranged attacks and you'll rarely be targeted.

I considered Twinned as well. And I suppose it really depends on how the DM runs the adventure. He's converting the old Avatar Cycle from 2E and with that will come some customization because I'm sure we've all read the books (however long ago that might have been).

I took Celestial for Warlock as I plan to stay as far in the back as I can manage. Currently not wearing any armor though I may revise that opinion on how often I have to burn a spell slot on Mage Armor. If the bad guys reach me we're in trouble! :) Though I will have to account for ranged attacks. And yeah I went with Divine Soul/Celestial to have the broader spell selection.

Next 2 levels will most likely be in Sorcerer. I'm not completely sold on the 3rd level of Warlock yet. Possibly down the road maybe but for now it will be Sorcerer.

Here's my current spell selection. I'm completely flying blind on this as I've never played this type of char.

Cantrips
Guidance
Mending
Message
Spare the Dying
Eldritch Blast
Light
Mage Hand
Sacred Flame

1st Level
Cure Wounds
Healing Word
Mage Armor
Shield
Charm Person
Hex
Unseen Servant

2nd Level
Hold Person

Invocations
Agonizing Blast
Mask of Many Faces

[samcifer]

I considered Twinned as well. And I suppose it really depends on how the DM runs the adventure. He's converting the old Avatar Cycle from 2E and with that will come some customization because I'm sure we've all read the books (however long ago that might have been).

I took Celestial for Warlock as I plan to stay as far in the back as I can manage. Currently not wearing any armor though I may revise that opinion on how often I have to burn a spell slot on Mage Armor. If the bad guys reach me we're in trouble! :) Though I will have to account for ranged attacks. And yeah I went with Divine Soul/Celestial to have the broader spell selection.

Next 2 levels will most likely be in Sorcerer. I'm not completely sold on the 3rd level of Warlock yet. Possibly down the road maybe but for now it will be Sorcerer.

Here's my current spell selection. I'm completely flying blind on this as I've never played this type of char.

Cantrips
Guidance
Mending
Message
Spare the Dying
Eldritch Blast
Light
Mage Hand
Sacred Flame

1st Level
Cure Wounds
Healing Word
Mage Armor
Shield
Charm Person
Hex
Unseen Servant

2nd Level
Hold Person

Invocations
Agonizing Blast
Mask of Many Faces

Do be aware that you don't have ritual casting (you can get it via a feat or taking the Warlock Pact of the Tome and taking the Eldritch Evocation that grants you ritual casting. Because of this, you'll need to burn a spell slot to use Unseen Servant. Definitely use armor over Mage Armor to free up a spell slot. You might want to go with Mirror Image to up your defenses over Unseen Servant. The reason I suggested Spiritual Weapon is because the casting and attacks it makes are bonus actions, letting you do more on each turn without burning lots of SP. This is one of the few spells that use your bonus action and it does not require concentration, so you can cast once (attacking the turn you cast it, then each following turn, giving you two attacks per turn or an attack and a different support/defensive spell. (I'm just pushing it because I got so much out of it and enjoyed using it. :) )

Another good spell is Web because you can support the combat-focused players by restraining foes, thereby keeping them immobile while also giving players advantage on attacking them. Rolling 2d20 per attack is a great ability to give your allies.

Remember, you can only cast one spell of lv. 1 or higher per turn, but you can also cast a cantrip on the same turn by doing one of them as a regular action and the other as your bonus action on a turn. Sorcs are great at this and are the only class with this much flexibility on double spell-casting on each turn whereas other casters have a hard time finding uses for their bonus actions.

[samcifer]

Hold Person is another great spell and one that you can Twin. It works just like Web, but doesn't hamper allies as they would either get caught in the web as well or become so when walking up to melee attack restrained foes. It gives the same benefits as Web, but targets enemies directly whereas Web as an AoE effect.

[Lodes]

I currently play a level 2 Sorc/3 Lock in my campaign and enjoy him very much. I play his as an Occult investigator, wrought with a trouble past and a penchant for dipping to far into the shadows. His Patron (The Raven Queen) and shadow source (Shadowfell) have come together nicely for story ans aesthetic purposes. I was granted a Rod of the Pact keeper +3 on recent foray into the Shadowfell (The DM groaned as we all watched the dice play out).

Hexblade (Tome) Shadow Sorcerer. Willfully tossing around hex, E.Blasting things (which is what you will do, over and over and over and over), using the absurd amount of cantrips (9) I have for all sorts of mischief, ritual spells (Did you know, being the only person with Identify means you get dibs on EVERYTHING), a huge spells known list for future metamagic shenanigans (subtle 'enemies abound' anyone). SR warlock slots to fuel Hounds of Ill Omen.

Started as Sorc for saves. Then 3 warlock for book and now the next 5 are meant for Sorcerer so I can obtain Hounds of Ill Omen. All ending up at 14 Lock / 6 Sorc. It leaves a weird spot of not having 4th level spell slots but thats just who he is I guess.

The power level of the character certainly doesnt show itself right away. I have a feeling that once I hit 6 and get meta magics (Quicken and Subtle) I will be visibly stronger to my group. But I am in no rush and have no desire to power game (coffeelock)

[n00b]

I evidently didn't real the Spiritual Weapon description well enough or it just didn't hit me that it was all bonus action usage. That's one I'm definitely going to add into my list. Possibly wearing light armor and dropping Mage Armor spell, though that does leave me 1 AC worse than the spell itself.

I didn't take Web for those reasons you mentioned. I'm in a party full of front-liners and unless I go first they're going to be caught in my AoE spells. Maybe one of my feats will be Alert someday and I can get a jump on them, but then who's to say some of them don't take the same feat.

I chose Unseen Servant more for out of combat utility and I see where it would really be more attractive as a ritual. Maybe at Warlock 3! :)

[Quoxis]

You can convert a 2nd-level spell slot into 3 sorcery points, so a Sorcerer 2/Warlock 3 can freely convert slots to points and vice versa.

Now that is just plain wrong, go read the phb again.
It clearly states that there are different exchange rates when converting slots into points (1:1) and points into slots (different rates: 2 for first, 3 for second, 5 for third, 6 for fourth and 7 for fifth).
If you convert two second level slots, you get 4 sorcery points. Converting those either gives you 2 first or 1 second level slot (with one point remaining), which makes your proposed tactics rather useless in most cases. Even if you’re starved for first level slots it‘d be just as good to use your second level slots to cast first level spells. The only way it makes sense is coffeelocking, that way you can accumulate sorcery points by using multiple short rests while others are taking a long one, but that might cause your GM to let rocks drop onto you(r character).

[samcifer]

Now that is just plain wrong, go read the phb again.
It clearly states that there are different exchange rates when converting slots into points (1:1) and points into slots (different rates: 2 for first, 3 for second, 5 for third, 6 for fourth and 7 for fifth).
If you convert two second level slots, you get 4 sorcery points. Converting those either gives you 2 first or 1 second level slot (with one point remaining), which makes your proposed tactics rather useless in most cases. Even if you’re starved for first level slots it‘d be just as good to use your second level slots to cast first level spells. The only way it makes sense is coffeelocking, that way you can accumulate sorcery points by using multiple short rests while others are taking a long one, but that might cause your GM to let rocks drop onto you(r character).

Actually you can convert spell slots into an equal number of sp to the level of the slot, so a lv. 5 spell slot grants 5 SP. It's using SP to purchase more spell slots where the rate increase comes into play. Cash a lv. 5 spell slot for 5 SP, but it costs 7 SP to GAIN another lv. 5 spell slot.

[Quoxis]

Actually you can convert spell slots into an equal number of sp to the level of the slot, so a lv. 5 spell slot grants 5 SP. It's using SP to purchase more spell slots where the rate increase comes into play. Cash a lv. 5 spell slot for 5 SP, but it costs 7 SP to GAIN another lv. 5 spell slot.

Please tell me where i said otherwise. I only used the „2 second level slots to 4 sorcery points“ example because that’s what the proposed sorc2/lock3 build can do.

[samcifer]

Please tell me where i said otherwise. I only used the „2 second level slots to 4 sorcery points“ example because that’s what the proposed sorc2/lock3 build can do.

Sorry. I'm at work and having to multitask. :(

[samcifer]

I evidently didn't real the Spiritual Weapon description well enough or it just didn't hit me that it was all bonus action usage. That's one I'm definitely going to add into my list. Possibly wearing light armor and dropping Mage Armor spell, though that does leave me 1 AC worse than the spell itself.

I didn't take Web for those reasons you mentioned. I'm in a party full of front-liners and unless I go first they're going to be caught in my AoE spells. Maybe one of my feats will be Alert someday and I can get a jump on them, but then who's to say some of them don't take the same feat.

I chose Unseen Servant more for out of combat utility and I see where it would really be more attractive as a ritual. Maybe at Warlock 3! :)

Yeah, go Pact of the Tome to gain access to the Book of Ancient Secrets eldritch evocation to gain ritual summoning equal to half your warlock level or lower (in your case as a warlock 3, that'd only be lv. 1 spells) but there's some good ones like Detect Magic or Alarm of you will be sleeping in unsafe places or think your home might be invaded while you sleep. There's Find Familiar as well, but its usefulness will depend entirely on the dm. In my campaign as a evo wizard, the dm kept targeting my familiar, so I gave up on having one. :(

With Spiritual Weapon you can heal/boost/cleanse allies and still be able to attack during the same turn. :)

[n00b]

Yeah, go Pact of the Tome to gain access to the Book of Ancient Secrets eldritch evocation to gain ritual summoning equal to half your warlock level or lower (in your case as a warlock 3, that'd only be lv. 1 spells) but there's some good ones like Detect Magic or Alarm of you will be sleeping in unsafe places or think your home might be invaded while you sleep. There's Find Familiar as well, but its usefulness will depend entirely on the dm. In my campaign as a evo wizard, the dm kept targeting my familiar, so I gave up on having one. :(

With Spiritual Weapon you can heal/boost/cleanse allies and still be able to attack during the same turn. :)

The text from PHB reads:

"When you find such a spell, you
can add it to the book if the spell’s level is equal to or
less than half your w arlock level (rounded up) and if you
can spare the time to transcribe the spell."

I interpret that to be level 2 spells for invocations at Warlock 3?

[Quoxis]

The text from PHB reads:

"When you find such a spell, you
can add it to the book if the spell’s level is equal to or
less than half your w arlock level (rounded up) and if you
can spare the time to transcribe the spell."

I interpret that to be level 2 spells for invocations at Warlock 3?

Level 2 ritual spells, but otherwise yes, that seems to be correct.

[samcifer]

Level 2 ritual spells, but otherwise yes, that seems to be correct.

Ack! Yeah, rounded UP, not down. Sorry about that.

[unusualsuspect]

I don't think you can access any Invocations that rely on a Pact Boon until level 5 in warlock, though, which seems like a pretty hefty limit on low level warlock dips.

Warlock 2 is when you get the first two invocations, and you don't get your Pact Boon until level 3. I don't see how one could justify taking an invocation whose prerequisites they don't meet. The next invocation learned after the warlock earns Pact Boon is level 5.

I'm wrestling with this as I'm trying to integrate Warlock into my existing build (with a mere 14 cha and ranged-based, so not even taking Eldritch Blast), and while there are several excellent utility invocations, I really wish I didn't have to go to Warlock 5 to get Book of Ancient Secrets, though it works out well to boost Shadowblade in any case.

[samcifer]

I don't think you can access any Invocations that rely on a Pact Boon until level 5 in warlock, though, which seems like a pretty hefty limit on low level warlock dips.

Warlock 2 is when you get the first two invocations, and you don't get your Pact Boon until level 3. I don't see how one could justify taking an invocation whose prerequisites they don't meet. The next invocation learned after the warlock earns Pact Boon is level 5.

I'm wrestling with this as I'm trying to integrate Warlock into my existing build (with a mere 14 cha and ranged-based, so not even taking Eldritch Blast), and while there are several excellent utility invocations, I really wish I didn't have to go to Warlock 5 to get Book of Ancient Secrets, though it works out well to boost Shadowblade in any case.

PHB states that each time you gain a level in the warlock class you can exchange one e. evocation for a different one, so at warlock 3 he can swap an e.e. for the one that grants ritual spells so long as he takes the tome pact at lv. 3 as well.

[n00b]

Well evidently I did not metagame enough.

Spoiler Alert!

In The Avatar Cycle modules magic is all messed up and anytime you cast a spell the DM rolls on a table for random results of what actually happens to your spells. I hit myself for over 20 damage on 2 eldritch blasts at one point. I read the books almost 30 years ago so I don't exactly recall all of what happened in them. But basically I've been reduced to grabbing a light crossbow and shooting my 1 bolt per round. :(