Nale reason for hating Malack

[hamishspence]

I would say a big running theme of that whole adventure was that while the Vector Legion was far more genteel and socially competent, they were much more evil than Nale as a direct result of that competence. (Balancing the other running theme that Tarquin's a big bad, but he's not the mastermind he thinks he is.)

More successful at propagating evil maybe.

But given that (in War & XPs commentary) The Giant described Nale as being "no less evil" than Xykon himself, I don't think the takeaway from Blood Runs In The Family was supposed to be "The Vector Legion are all much more evil people than Nale/Xykon".

[martianmister]

More successful at propagating evil maybe.

But given that (in War & XPs commentary) The Giant described Nale as being "no less evil" than Xykon himself, I don't think the takeaway from Blood Runs In The Family was supposed to be "The Vector Legion are all much more evil people than Nale/Xykon".

Well, you could argue that Vector Legion is more evil than Xykon himself, but that's probably can not be the case.

[dude123nice]

In light of how vile both Nale and Malack were, the reason for the grudge could easily be something legitimately horrifying that anyone less warped than the Vector Legion would have recognized as a reason for enmity, or something ridiculously petty that anyone less warped than Nale would have shrugged off.

While it is true that the Vector Legion have committed a lot of evil things and that Tarquin has a warped morality, seeing the interactions between the other members and especially their reaction to Malak's death, I would say that the other members of Vector Legion are some of the most humanized and sympathetic villains shown in the comic. So if something horrifying happened between Nale and Malak I doubt that knowledge of the event extends beyond those two plus Tarquin.

[brian 333]

Has it occurred to anyone that the simple fact of being senior to Nale in the pecking order was sufficient to create the hatered? Imagine ghe effects of telling Nale it was time to brush his teeth, and having thd ability to dominate him and actually make him obey?

[Fyraltari]

While it is true that the Vector Legion have committed a lot of evil things and that Tarquin has a warped morality, seeing the interactions between the other members and especially their reaction to Malak's death, I would say that the other members of Vector Legion are some of the most humanized and sympathetic villains shown in the comic. So if something horrifying happened between Nale and Malak I doubt that knowledge of the event extends beyond those two plus Tarquin.

I doubt they would have cared, if Tarquin or Malack tormented Nale. He's not their kid.

Has it occurred to anyone that the simple fact of being senior to Nale in the pecking order was sufficient to create the hatered? Imagine ghe effects of telling Nale it was time to brush his teeth, and having thd ability to dominate him and actually make him obey?

He didn't seem to hate the rest of the VL nearly as much, though.

[brian 333]

He didn't seem to hate the rest of the VL nearly as much, though.

None of them made him brush his teeth and go to bed.

[hroþila]

He only interacted with Laurin on-panel, and what little we saw (the way he said "Aunt" and how he relished her pain at the news of Malack's death) certainly didn't scream "Nale is cool with Laurin" to me. That said, I'm sure that even if he hated other VL members just for being above him in the pecking order, that's not the main reason why he hated Malack.

[Peelee]

While it is true that the Vector Legion have committed a lot of evil things and that Tarquin has a warped morality, seeing the interactions between the other members and especially their reaction to Malak's death, I would say that the other members of Vector Legion are some of the most humanized and sympathetic villains shown in the comic. So if something horrifying happened between Nale and Malak I doubt that knowledge of the event extends beyond those two plus Tarquin.

I don't see how that follows at all. Also, I don't see the Vector Legion as more humanized or sympathetic than other either, just more civil.

[Synesthesy]

Well, you could argue that Vector Legion is more evil than Xykon himself, but that's probably can not be the case.

Xykon has done horrible things, some out of boredom. He is really evil. But there is something in Tarquin that can make an argument... Because Tarquin is a lot more rational, more logical. I fear more logical evil then random evil.
For what we know, T may have killed lots of people more then X, counting the whole Vector Legion and their plan for the Western Continent. He have a cruel dictatorship that use mass murderer, war, slavery and death fighting as a way to ensure power. Xykon didn't have anything like that before taking Azure City, and even then we can argue if Goblinoids have improved their lifestyle.
We should not understimate Tarquin's evilness just because he's cool and funny.

While it is true that the Vector Legion have committed a lot of evil things and that Tarquin has a warped morality, seeing the interactions between the other members and especially their reaction to Malak's death, I would say that the other members of Vector Legion are some of the most humanized and sympathetic villains shown in the comic. So if something horrifying happened between Nale and Malak I doubt that knowledge of the event extends beyond those two plus Tarquin.

You can be the most evil person in the world, and still love someone. I don't thing that Laurin is less evil just because he loves her daughter and his teamates. The Giant himself said this argument, more then once, and I totally agree.

[Peelee]

Xykon has done horrible things, some out of boredom. He is really evil. But there is something in Tarquin that can make an argument... Because Tarquin is a lot more rational, more logical. I fear more logical evil then random evil.

There's a real-world analogue here that I don't dare make, but suffice it to say I fear random Evil way more than logical Evil.

[Fyraltari]

I don't see how that follows at all. Also, I don't see the Vector Legion as more humanized or sympathetic than other either, just more civil.

Laurin seems to truly love her daughter, that makes her look more sympathetic than Tarquin or Xykon to my eyes.

[Peelee]

Laurin seems to truly love her daughter, that makes her look more sympathetic than Tarquin or Xykon to my eyes.

Yes, she seems to care for her daughter as much as Tarquin seems to care for Elan initially. I see no reason to extend the benefit of the doubt.

[Jasdoif]

Yes, she seems to care for her daughter as much as Tarquin seems to care for Elan initially.

And Nale, for that matter.

[Fyraltari]

Yes, she seems to care for her daughter as much as Tarquin seems to care for Elan initially. I see no reason to extend the benefit of the doubt.

2 Reasons:
1) Generally speaking, I find it better to take what any given work is presenting at face value until it gives you reason to doubt it.

2) Tarquin's "love" for Elan involved controlling him and putting him in danger. Laurin's love for Hannah involves helping her find clients and keeping her away from the power-plays and conspiration and murders.

[Kish]

I wish people wouldn't assert that what a character in a work says is somehow the same as what the work says.

[hroþila]

Well, I see no reason to assume all Evil characters are exactly like Tarquin. Laurin is a relatively minor character we saw little of. Narratively speaking, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have what she says during her limited time on-panel differ radically from what she truly is like, unless the story gave us specific reasons to question the narrative as shown (as it did with Tarquin).

[Yendor]

Laurin is perfectly capable of supporting her daughter in a way that does not require subjugating half a continent under brutal dictatorship. So no, I have no reason to believe her stated concern is anything more than a self-serving rationalisation.

[Fyraltari]

Laurin is perfectly capable of supporting her daughter in a way that does not require subjugating half a continent under brutal dictatorship. So no, I have no reason to believe her stated concern is anything more than a self-serving rationalisation.

I don't see how that relates to wether or not she is caring for her daughter. There are things between "cares for no-one but themself" and "cares for everyone equally".

[Gift Jeraff]

Malack gave him an infraction for making another "Was Dad morally justified in grounding me?" thread.

[ti'esar]

Well, I see no reason to assume all Evil characters are exactly like Tarquin. Laurin is a relatively minor character we saw little of. Narratively speaking, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have what she says during her limited time on-panel differ radically from what she truly is like, unless the story gave us specific reasons to question the narrative as shown (as it did with Tarquin).

Well, keep in mind that besides Tarquin we also have Malack seemingly like a superficially polite and reasonable guy up until we learned he planned on turning the continent into a literal slaughterhouse. It's the Vector Legion going 2 for 2 on "FAR more evil than they like to present themselves" thus far that makes people particularly skeptical of anyone else in it claiming to have sympathetic traits.

[AstralFire]

Laurin could range anywhere from "distant, abusive, and controlling in her own way" to "supportive, liked by her daughter" as a mother and it'd be narratively plausible. I don't think there's enough information to strongly discount it (she seems to be better at appraising situations coolly than the others) and we have real-life precedent for both. I don't really think it makes her sympathetic, though. The point is to make her look even more inhuman because she doesn't care about anyone she has to hurt to get what she wants.

[Jasdoif]

Well, I see no reason to assume all Evil characters are exactly like Tarquin. Laurin is a relatively minor character we saw little of. Narratively speaking, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have what she says during her limited time on-panel differ radically from what she truly is like, unless the story gave us specific reasons to question the narrative as shown (as it did with Tarquin).

Narratively speaking, what Laurin "truly is like" is irrelevant if/while* she's too minor to have scenes that explore her character beyond the superficial level. It's kind of like a corollary to the scenario with Tarquin:

I don't think Tarquin sat around thinking, "Ha ha! I am fooling them into thinking I love my family! I am so clever!" I think he thought that he really loved his family, right up until the point where loving his family conflicted with him being in total control. And then both he and the readers got to see which one of the two really mattered to him.

Now, if I had to make a highly questionable extrapolation....I'd note that her reaction to Tarquin murdering his offspring goes beyond "take it in stride", all the way to "dispose of the body in front of the twin brother". Which...does not inspire much confidence in her appraisal of familial devotion.


* Are we still hoping for a Vector Legion prequel book? I think we are....

[AstralFire]

Good points, Jasdoif.

[hroþila]

Narratively speaking, what Laurin "truly is like" is irrelevant if/while* she's too minor to have scenes that explore her character beyond the superficial level. It's kind of like a corollary to the scenario with Tarquin:
Now, if I had to make a highly questionable extrapolation....I'd note that her reaction to Tarquin murdering his offspring goes beyond "take it in stride", all the way to "dispose of the body in front of the twin brother". Which...does not inspire much confidence in her appraisal of familial devotion.


* Are we still hoping for a Vector Legion prequel book? I think we are....

To be honest, all that tells me is that she's Evil. Everybody's someone's family, after all, and that never stopped a villain no matter how much they did care about their own family.

[martianmister]

Laurin "Airborne Tramp" Shattersmith seems like a Redcloak-like character, if we go by her plans about supplying water and her hate of elves.

[woweedd]

While it is true that the Vector Legion have committed a lot of evil things and that Tarquin has a warped morality, seeing the interactions between the other members and especially their reaction to Malak's death, I would say that the other members of Vector Legion are some of the most humanized and sympathetic villains shown in the comic. So if something horrifying happened between Nale and Malak I doubt that knowledge of the event extends beyond those two plus Tarquin.

What about Redcloak?

[Fyraltari]

Laurin "Airborne Tramp" Shattersmith seems like a Redcloak-like character, if we go by her plans about supplying water and her hate of elves.

"Airborne tramp", you are being sarcastic, right?

Redcloak's plan would be to take the Elves' water, though. Two birds one stone and all that.

[martianmister]

"Airborne tramp", you are being sarcastic, right?

Inside joke.

Redcloak's plan would be to take the Elves' water, though. Two birds one stone and all that.

She probably would do that if she can.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

It’s somewhat tough to judge Laurin since we didn’t see her too much, and didn’t actually see her interacting with her child at all (although I do wonder if we’ll see her a little more if the story moves over to what’s going on in the desert). That said, I could easily see Laurin having some concern for her daughter, or at least affecting that, while still treating her in a fashion consistent with Evil.

* Are we still hoping for a Vector Legion prequel book? I think we are....

I certainly am, and to bring things back to this thread’s original topic, the possibility of such a book makes me lean more towards “actual reason” over “invented slight”. I think that would be something that the book could easily focus on, although obviously it by no means has to mention it at all.

However, if there is no prequel story (or the story leaves this part entirely out) then I am somewhat entertained by the various minor reasons that people have theorized, so I might side more towards those in that case.

[MReav]

Inside joke.

Not quite sure what you're getting at.

I could understand if she duelled Haley rather than V.