OOTS #1126 - The Discussion Thread

[drazen]

Wow, how bad is Hilgya's will save? Seems like "Come here and give me your baby" would be worth a second one at least.


Powers &8^]

The order was just "Come here." Looked to me like Durkon straight up took the baby.

[Talion]

Ugh, I forget that part of the back story and since I'm busy at work I don't have time to look it up. What happened with Durkon's father and a troll?

Thanks--

From what we were told, he died fighting a troll with a draconic template (and thus seemingly fire resistance/immunity) instead of the normal troll the party was expecting. Of course, that could all change in the next update or two.

[StreamOfTheSky]

This is the straw that breaks EVERYTHING. Durkon is going to snap, the Order may snap...its on folks. Nobody puts Baby in a corner!

Uh...the baby's own mother handed him over to be used as a human shield. If she's still ok with it while being dominated, so are the others.
But hey, I've complained multiple times already about how ludicrously successful the barrage of dominates has been, even when ordered to do stuff that offers a new save and no one broke free still.

[Kish]

Uh...the baby's own mother handed him over to be used as a human shield. If she's still ok with it while being dominated, so are the others.
But hey, I've complained multiple times already about how ludicrously successful the barrage of dominates has been, even when ordered to do stuff that offers a new save and no one broke free still.

You sure have. What you haven't done, is explained why the domination gaze power, and for that matter the Dominate Person spell, doesn't spell out "the victim gets a new save to break the Domination whenever you order them to do anything," if any action that benefits an enemy or hurts allies automatically trips the "against your nature" clause.

[brian 333]

Uh...the baby's own mother handed him over to be used as a human shield. If she's still ok with it while being dominated, so are the others.
But hey, I've complained multiple times already about how ludicrously successful the barrage of dominates has been, even when ordered to do stuff that offers a new save and no one broke free still.

The characters of the OotS are notoriously poorly built. Look at Roy, for example: he has not properly dump-statted his Int score, and he has skill points invested in non-combat skills that don't apply to mobility. I know a couple of players who could munchkin the OotS characters for upwards of 50% increase in combat effectiveness.

Kudzu on Durkula's lap may seem like a wise move to Durkula, but I get the feeling that it's the first step in his defeat.

I notice that Mr. Scruffy is coming to the rescue. Again. (I hope it works.)

[Resileaf]

The save is if it's against their very nature. What makes them who they are. Not any random order. Ordering Haley and Elan to kill each others would definitely mean another save because they truly love each other, but we haven't known Hilgya long enough to know if she doesn't really hold no feelings whatsoever for Durkon anymore. There may be lingering affection. He is the father to her child.

Edit: Also apparently Belkar somehow got back the dagger he threw. Huh.

[Darkhands]

My first thought was that this is really bad for UnDurkon... He's now trapped with a high level cleric who won't stay dominated forever, and who will be very angry when she wakes up.

But mini-hostage aside, if she breaks her domination, can he just walk out? Are Hilgya and Kudzu the ones trapped in there? I thought the shell could only be used defensively... using it to trap your enemies seems to be bending that rule (yes I know the rules are only a guide here, but still).

[FlawedParadigm]

The straw that breaks the camel's back is going to be that Durkon* said "daddy" when talking to Kudzu and someone is going to notice that. That will be the part where Durkon's* downfall will be his own fault.

[Crusher]

Edit: Also apparently Belkar somehow got back the dagger he threw. Huh.

Could be a different dagger.

[Hiro Quester]

The big plot points here are awesome, a welcome combination of the expected (Durkon’s mom beginning to explain why she’s on the Wall of Donors) and the unexpected (Kudzu as anti-life shell).

But the small stuff is hilarious. Dominated-Elan wins: “the feel-good compulsion of the year” “three-and-a-half hypno-swirlies”.

It’s the low rating, three and a half (presumably out of five) that tickles me most. Well played, Giant.

[Teln]

Ugh, I forget that part of the back story and since I'm busy at work I don't have time to look it up. What happened with Durkon's father and a troll?

Thanks--

From what we were told, he died fighting a troll with a draconic template (and thus seemingly fire resistance/immunity) instead of the normal troll the party was expecting. Of course, that could all change in the next update or two.

Specifically, both him and the half-dragon troll were crushed to death in a Hail Mary cave-in he caused after the troll's draconic template made their flaming weapons completely useless. The funeral was empty-casket. That's a very important detail because there's exactly one clerical spell in the SRD with a 25k price tag--True Resurrection. The 9th-level spell you use to bring someone back from death if no remains can be found, assuming that any exist in the first place.

The obvious question now is, why on Earth would a newlywed man and father-to-be pass up a second chance at life with his wife and child? Especially after his widow nearly bankrupted herself trying to bring him back?

[Resileaf]

Specifically, both him and the half-dragon troll were crushed to death in a Hail Mary cave-in he caused after the troll's draconic template made their flaming weapons completely useless. The funeral was empty-casket. That's a very important detail because there's exactly one clerical spell in the SRD with a 25k price tag--True Resurrection. The 9th-level spell you use to bring someone back from death if no remains can be found, assuming that any exist in the first place.

The obvious question now is, why on Earth would a newlywed man and father-to-be pass up a second chance at life with his wife and child? Especially after his widow nearly bankrupted herself trying to bring him back?

Hmm. The only thing I can think of...
Durkon's father isn't dead yet. He is (or was) trapped in the tunnels, but still alive.

[Smolder]

I get it... Durkon's plan must be to deafen the vampire with the loudest DUN DUN DUNNNN ever!

[Cazero]

I would like to hear more reviews about this domination.

"Dominastic !"
"Loyalty training ends up costing more time and money."
"I can neither confirm nor deny wether or not I was being dominated at that time."
"Kill. All. HumansDwarves."
"Beats being thrown in an acid vat."
"Not that kind of domination."
"I murdered my fellows PCs, and all I got for it was a backstabbing from my new boss."

[Peelee]

Edit: Also apparently Belkar somehow got back the dagger he threw. Huh.

Could be a different dagger.

He's certainly close enough to have grabbed it back.

[Resileaf]

Greg's suspiciously specific denial that the memory isn't distracting him is very interesting, though. That he felt the need to specify that the memory was not distracting him despite no one else knowing that he was watching a memory seems to be very meaningful.

[Sardonic]

Can someone explain how the forumites figured out this reveal in advance? I know we saw the Wall of Names of Very Rich Donors back in #1112, but how did our super sleuths figure out that one of the runic entries in there was Sigdi's?

[Morquard]

Fun Fact: 25,000 gp is exactly the price of a True Resurrection.

So I assume Durkon's father actually is alive? Who could he be, because I assume his reveal will change something there.

[vegetalss4]

Fun Fact: 25,000 gp is exactly the price of a True Resurrection.

So I assume Durkon's father actually is alive? Who could he be, because I assume his reveal will change something there.

While the 25000 gp is pretty clearly implying a True Resurrection the actual price of getting one cast is 26530 gp. The 250000 gp only pays for the material components you also have to pay 10*caster level*spell level to the cleric to cast it.
In fact since the 25000 gp worth of diamonds get consumed in the casting the cleric only get's to keep the 1530 extra gp.

[2D8HP]

Making Kudzu cry!



Durkula so deserves comeupens now!

[Ruck]

You sure have. What you haven't done, is explained why the domination gaze power, and for that matter the Dominate Person spell, doesn't spell out "the victim gets a new save to break the Domination whenever you order them to do anything," if any action that benefits an enemy or hurts allies automatically trips the "against your nature" clause.

I wouldn't say any action, myself, but given how vociferously Hilgya defended bringing her baby into an active combat situation over leaving him somewhere safer, I would have thought "voluntarily hand over your baby" might have garnered another save. (Although, of course, it's possible that it did and she failed. I'm not finding this development implausible, myself.)

[hamishspence]

Can someone explain how the forumites figured out this reveal in advance? I know we saw the Wall of Names of Very Rich Donors back in #1112, but how did our super sleuths figure out that one of the runic entries in there was Sigdi's?

Probably by first finding the font.

Now's probably a good time to point out that one of those names is in fact:

Spoiler

Show

Sigdi Thundershield.

The one above it is Shirra Copperbottom, which may be Sigdi's friend.

Here's the font.

[PBlades]

He could have been revived but chose to abandoned them. Aside from being a painful and traumatic memory for Durkon, though, I don't see how this would help. It wouldn't make sense if he just dies again after the revive, and "Sorry ma'am, your 'donation for the cause of your husband's resurrection was greatly appreciated, but no refunds!" is pretty dire. He could be one of the other dwarfen characters?

[Ruck]

Fun Fact: 25,000 gp is exactly the price of a True Resurrection.

So I assume Durkon's father actually is alive? Who could he be, because I assume his reveal will change something there.

Hmm. I wonder if she donated to get Durkon's pa resurrected, and he declined to come back. I feel like the real reveal runs deeper than that, though, especially as to how she got the money in the first place.

[Morquard]

While the 25000 gp is pretty clearly implying a True Resurrection the actual price of getting one cast is 26530 gp. The 250000 gp only pays for the material components you also have to pay 10*caster level*spell level to the cleric to cast it.
In fact since the 25000 gp worth of diamonds get consumed in the casting the cleric only get's to keep the 1530 extra gp.

It might be that the temple of thor waved the 1530 gp, and only required the 25k, maybe because it happened in the line of duty, or because the temple doesn't charge for resurrections in general. I don't know, just speculating of course.

But it really only leaves a few possibilities:
a) Dad didn't want to come back
b) Dad wasn't dead, so couldn't come back (but that would mean a horrific fate of being trapped under rubble the whole time, and why did nobody do anything?)
c) Dad came back, but died again before Durkon was born
d) Dad came back, but left the family

Durkon specifically saved this memory for this occation because he thinks it will shake the Vampire's concentration or believe or change things in some way. I'm wondering which of these would.
a) Probably just gets the Vampire to laugh, but otherwise, I don't think it would matter to him
b) Would probably make the Vampire laugh even louder. Again I don't think it would matter
c) Depending how he died again, it could mean he currently resides with Hel... but all that would do is probably give him more ammunition by threatening to also torture Dad's soul now, I can't see how that would help.
d) The hall could belong to him, and he shows up and wrecks face when revealed. Durkon having learned from Elan realized that that would happen at the dramatically opportune moment, which means it won't happen before he learnd the memory. Ok I'm fishing here.

Oh... one last idea:
When the resurrection failed Thor gave Sigdy a "one true res free" voucher... which Durkon holds now, and is going to use... from within the Vampire... But for that the vampire needed to be aware of it... which makes no sense at all either.

[Resileaf]

I think it's affecting him more than you might think. He really went out of his way to say, aloud that he wasn't being distracted by the memory. And earlier, he said the same thing in and outside of his mind about "it's not over yet./?" when the female vampire gloated that Belkar was following her orders without question. There's something fishy going on.

[Mikemical]

I thought Durkula was Lawful Evil and agreed to let Durkon's family live. This... does not seem to be him upholding his end of that bargain.

Antilife Shell doesn't harm living beings, just makes people outside the shell unable to cross it.

However, using the baby as a shield against Roy's bastard sword is effectively putting him in harm's way.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Fun Fact: 25,000 gp is exactly the price of a True Resurrection.

So I assume Durkon's father actually is alive? Who could he be, because I assume his reveal will change something there.

If she had spent 25k on True Resurrection material components (diamonds), that would not count as a donation to the temple. Even if the temple sold to you the material as a double-dipping commercial process, that's still a regular purchase, not a donation. The message, I think, is that she could have had the resurrection cast, but chose to donate the funds to the temple instead, not that the resurrection failed.

However, using the baby as a shield against Roy's bastard sword is effectively putting him in harm's way.

No, it is not, not if you know Roy, which both Durkon and Greg do.

Grey Wolf

[Thufir]

While the True Resurrection speculation is interesting, remember that the High Priest of Odin was the only Dwarf Cleric powerful enough to regenerate a lost limb, so certainly no-one at the Temple of Thor could cast the higher level True Resurrection.
Well, unless Sigdi's "At least these days" comment is implying the existence of more powerful Clerics who had died by the time of that memory.

[ratfox]

Ouch. That doesn't look good.