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Thread: Werewolf Lord
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2018-08-15, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2018
Werewolf Lord
First level taken as crusader
Second taken as lycanthrope template class
Third as dire wolf (werewolf lord)
Alternate until taking the third lycanthrope class level at 6, then finish taking dire wolf levela at 10
Ur-Priest 2/RKV 8 for 8th level spells with high enough wis
Is this a build that could survive with a DWK DFA, Killer Gnome, Elven Cleric Lich (dm is super cool and designed a high level caster ritual that would tranform you into a lich woth a huge expenditure of resources, but no la)
The goal isnt necessarily to pull weight, but more for a Crusader of the Moon First Lycanthrope type thing, some combat help would be niceto provide but I understand my character probably wont have the spotlight oftenLast edited by cartejos; 2018-08-15 at 07:37 AM.
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2018-08-15, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
Re: Werewolf Lord
You'll do okay once you reach high levels but actually getting there will be incredibly boring.
If you're starting at low levels you'll spend the majority of your time with nothing but your one Crusader level and the quite sub-par animal HD. It'll be painful for sure.
Honestly? I'd save it for a campaign that already starts at a higher level. It's a decent enough build but i can't imagine actually playing through it to be any fun.
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2018-08-15, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2018
Re: Werewolf Lord
Combat and Out-of-Combat roles I probably won't be able to fill well in the beginning, but most of my enjoyment at lower levels isn't the rolls or abilities I have, it's more that I enjoy driving conflict and plot in interesting directions. Most of the rest of the party is keeping there more interesting bits (DWK, Lich, ScM) to a minimum, cause they might get a book to the head. Playing with a level of crusader and some animal hd should be low power enough for me to be as 'wild' with it as I want to. "Hey mr. king-ly man, I know you said you wouldn't pay more than a few gp, but...." *transforms* "You see, you ain't never had a friend like me"
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2018-08-15, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Tula, Russia
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Re: Werewolf Lord
Warning: Ur-Priest is incompatible with RKV
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2018-08-15, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
Re: Werewolf Lord
In which way?
Once you became an ur priest you can then go to any alignment it just makes you unable to take more levels in ur priest.
(you could even go ur priest x/prestige paladin 1/ radiant servant of pelor Y)
Unless you are one of those people who says dragon disciples are unable to benefit from his ability turning it into a creature of the dragon type because this ability makes it stop qualifying.Last edited by noob; 2018-08-15 at 03:56 PM.
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2018-08-15, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: Werewolf Lord
Or one of those people who say "You must continue to meet the requirements of a prestige class to gain its benefits. Dragon Discipline, and other PrCs which disqualify themselves with ability granted by the class itself are an exception to this rule".
or
"You must continue to meet the requirements of a prestige class to gain its benefits. Yes yes, Dragon Discipline, I know, but since I've never had a player use that Prestige Class in all my years of playing, I also don't really care".Last edited by Boci; 2018-08-15 at 03:57 PM.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2018-08-15, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
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2018-08-15, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Tula, Russia
- Gender
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2018-08-15, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
Re: Werewolf Lord
When you fall as an ur priest you can probably still siphon spells from gods since their power does not comes from the hatred of the gods but they learn this power due to that.
It is even suggested in some extra fluff than priests of gods that die can become ur priests in an attempt to get power to possibly bring back their own god.
Then that second prc does not exclude followers of dead gods.
you might even say "I am planning to ihs the death of my god but I need more awesomeness and rudisplorkness" or some other stuff like thatLast edited by noob; 2018-08-15 at 04:38 PM.
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2018-08-15, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Werewolf Lord
Given the relative freedom in regards to worship with clerics and the fact that you can even worship an idea I don't see a problem with a RKV and Ur Priest working together. The only thing I'd ask is whether or not this would end up being too much for a given party since it could potentially be a pretty strong combination.
All that said I Hate like 90% of the alignment restrictions from the Tome of Battle. Some of it just doesn't make sense even in the scope of the fluff presented.
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2018-08-16, 06:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Tula, Russia
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Re: Werewolf Lord
The problem there is: Ur-priests are literally stealing from a gods; no deity ever will support them
(Well, at least - unless the rebuild of all levels in the Ur-priest class...)
In that case - tangential problem:Originally Posted by Tome of Battle
No divine inspiration - no readied maneuvers...
Which "second prc"?
This thing:Originally Posted by Complete Divine
AFAIK, Tome of Battle is fairly liberal in that regard:
Crusader - non-Neutral
Avenging Strike - Any good alignment
Jade Phoenix Mage - Any nonevil
Shadow Sun Ninja - Any good
IMHO, it's all pretty well-justified by the fluff (and, anyway, isn't numerous at all)
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2018-08-16, 06:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2018
Re: Werewolf Lord
If you wish to continue debate I ask that you please start a new thread for it. As for ur priest and rkv, I could have stood to mention that this character is worshipping an elder evil living inside the moon, and the dm took out the wee jas tag in rkv, as well as a lot of the other deity requirements(aka need to check with the dm before taking anything requiring worship, and it may be waived)
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2018-08-16, 07:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
Re: Werewolf Lord
Crusaders are unique among martial adepts, relying on f lashes of divine inspiration to use their martial maneuvers. As such, you do not control access to your readied maneuvers.
It is specified that crusaders can work for a cause rather than a god(if you read more crusader fluff) so you could get your crusader powers from a cause rather than a god if you want to.
So your crusader dedicated to a cause(such as bringing back its dead god) could also be a follower of a dead god that learned to siphon powers from the other gods(ur priest variant fluff) and then as a person devoted to a god(whenever it is alive or not does not matters) he can get levels in rkv too.
I see no problems in that.
Or you could be a tsundere crusader of wee jas that despise all the gods but love wee jas while despising it and hating it and who become an ur priest because he despise and hate all the gods then who becomes a rkv because he dedicate itself to wee jas even through he hates him because hate and love are not incompatible.
The problem there is: Ur-priests are literally stealing from a gods; no deity ever will support them
(Well, at least - unless the rebuild of all levels in the Ur-priest class...)
you could even have the person to which you are devoted trying to kill you and it gives no problems you could still be devoted to that person.
rkv only needs to be devoted and never to have support from the god to which he is devoted.
And even if you are stealing power from the gods nothing says you have no control over the god from which you steal power so you could steal power only to the gods opposing your god and then your god might even appreciate that if that god is not very lawful.
They do not congregate into anything resembling temples, for they fear that too many of them in one place might draw unwanted divine attention. And of course they rarely associate with clerics or any other divine spellcasters, whom they see as lackeys and who view them as abominations.Last edited by noob; 2018-08-16 at 07:55 AM.
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2018-08-16, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Werewolf Lord
I'm not seeing your point here? Are you trying to say a RKV is forced to congregate, use temples, etc?
I dislike the fact that Crusaders can't be neutral. There's no reason why a person of neutral alignment can't have the inspiration, drive, and conviction in a cause that would prevent them from being a Crusader. Right off the top of my head the idea of someone pushing for law or balance between good and evil are justification enough.
I'd have to reread Jade Phoenix mage since I'm AFB (storage) but I'm pretty sure I disagreed with the reasoning way back. I also had no problems with Avenging Strike.
Shadow Sun Ninja reads like it should be neutral. The entire concept of the class is based on balancing between good and evil and positive and negative. Why would it be limited to any good? And, going by the reasoning of certain other books, wouldn't a lot of the SSN features push said character further and further away from any good alignment? Inevitably disqualifying them from the class? Not even getting into the capstone.
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2018-08-16, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2016
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Re: Werewolf Lord
If Dungeon Magazine is allowed, issue 84 has the Winter Werewolf template which grants you more power for the same LA and the 6 RHD you'd have to take are magical beast's (giving you d10's instead of d8's, higher BAB and dark vision).
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2018-08-16, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2018
Re: Werewolf Lord
That would be a nice fit, though there isnt a template class for it, I will talk with the dm about possibly adjusting the WWL class to fit in the abilities of the winter wolf though, thank you for an actual suggestion instead of arguing about semantics of classes and alignment on a thread for build advice
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2018-08-16, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Tula, Russia
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Re: Werewolf Lord
I'm glad you're actually checked it with the DM
If you added "Approved by the DM" to the original post, it could spare you from some unnecessary debate
By the request of cartejos:I made the new thread.
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2018-08-17, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012