[WIP] Ability Check DC Masterlist: All the ability check DCs from official adventures

[Unoriginal]

A complete list of all the suggested ability check DCs from the official 5e adventures.

DISCLAIMER:

This list is not an attempt to prove what the "true" DCs for different tasks are. Nor is it an attempt to create an orthodoxy in how DM select their DCs.

This list exist solely to show and analyse the various exemples of DCs used through the adventures and how they relate to 5e's design philosophy and expectations.

SPOILERS from published module, obviously.

Note: the data gathering is in progress, the completed list will look significantly different.

Modules covered so far: LMoP, Against the Giants, Forge of Fury, Sunless Citadel

Spoiler: Strength Checks

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STRENGTH CHECKS
Task	Proficiency	DC	Module
Ascending or descending the chimney shaft in Cragmaw Hideout's fissure	Athletics	10	LMoP
Loosening the metal rod keeping a Cragmaw wolf's chains connected to the floor	--	15	LMoP
Yanking the loosened metal rod keeping a Cragmaw wolf's chains connected to the floor	--	10	LMoP
Climbing the 20ft walls that are rough but slick with a stream's spray	Athletics	15	LMoP
Breaking down a Redbrand Hideout's door	--	20	LMoP
Wrenching open the Redbrand's cell doors	--	22	LMoP
Forcing open a Ruins of Thundertree's door	--	10	LMoP
Moving through the giant spiders' web in the ruined store	Athletics	10	LMoP
Breaking free when restrained by the giant spiders' web	--	12	LMoP
Knocking over the town square's weathered wooden statue	--	20	LMoP
Forcing the barred doors of dragon cultists cottage open	--	20	LMoP
Forcing the barred shutters of dragon cultists cottage open	--	15	LMoP
Breaking down a barricaded shut door in Cragmaw Castle	--	15	LMoP
Knocking down Cragmaw Castle's postern iron door	--	25	LMoP
Climbing down the Wave Echo Cave's pit without using the rope	Athletics	15	LMoP
Climbing the walls of the cavern's hall to reach the escarpments	Athletics	12	LMoP
Forcing open the barricaded barracks' door	--	20	LMoP
Forcing open the damaged doors of the Wave Echo Cave's wizard quarters	--	15	LMoP
Forcing open the door of the Forge of Spell, which has partially-melted hinges	--	15	LMoP
Climbing the wall of the rift without a rope, when a stream is pouring on the same side	Athletics	10	LMoP
Prying the jewel eyes of Dumathoin's statue	--	10	LMoP
Opening one of the gigantic doors of the Hill Giants' steading as a Medium or smaller creature	Athletics	10	AtG
Forcing the door of the wights' "trap" cell	Athletics	15	AtG
Forcing open one of the barred and locked gates of the Hill Giants' unruly slave quarters	Athletics	25	AtG
Forcing open the door of the Hill Giants' storage room	Athletics	25	AtG
Lifting the portcullis of the Hill Giants' false treasure room	Athletics	25	AtG
Lifting the bars keeping the treasure guards imprisoned	Athletics	25	AtG
Opening the pit's trapdoor	--	10	AtG
Keeping the pit's trapdoor open with a piton or shim	--	15	AtG
Moving one of the boulders of the Glacial Rift out of the way (for Medium or smaller creatures)	Athletics	20	AtG
Opening one of the ravine's valves (for Medium or smaller creatures; requires at least two characters to pass the DC in order to succeed)	Athletics	25	AtG
Opening one of the gigantic iron doors of the Fire Giant's stronghold (for Medium or smaller creatures	Athletics	15	AtG
Disabling the trap of the Fire Giant stronghold's west alcove	--	10	AtG
Climbing a 100ft tall point of sheer rock	Athletics	15	FoF
Conducting a search by extensively diving into the depths of the Dark Mere to find the 40ft deep secret opening	Athletics	10	FoF
Forcing open the barred dwarven main door	--	20	FoF
Climbing 80ft of a slippery, if rough and irregular, chimney shaft (with fire burning)	Athletics	15 (several checks)	FoF
Climbing 80ft of a slippery, if rough and irregular, chimney shaft (with fire burning), with a rope	Atheltics	5 (several checks)	FoF
Forcing open the orc commons' iron gate	--	15	FoF
Opening Great Ulfe's heavy and hard to move door	--	17	FoF
Descending while walking in the cold stream	Athletics	8	FoF
Forcing the mud-and-wattle door	--	10	FoF
Forcing the mud-and-wattle door after it's been secured	--	15	FoF
Forcing the mud-and-wattle barrier of the chief's cave	--	10	FoF
Scaling the rockfall while under attack by gricks	Athletics	8	FoF
Breaking the iron door of Durgeddin's halls down	--	25	FoF
Forcing the door of the old dwarven storeroom open	--	10	FoF
Directing yourself while swept by fast-flowing water	Athletics	10	FoF
Climbing down the chasm's slippery stone, next to the waterfall	Athletics	15	FoF
Climbing down the chasm's slippery stone, next to the waterfall, with a rope	Athletics	5	FoF
Forcing down the looted armory's iron door	--	15	FoF
Climbing out of a masonry debris's cavity	Athletics	10	SC

Spoiler: Dexterity Checks

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DEXTERITY CHECKS
Task	Proficiency	DC	Module
Picking the locks of the Redbrand Hideout's doors	Thieves' tools	10	LMoP
Skirting around the pit trap in the Redbrand hall	Acrobatics	10	LMoP
Picking the locks of the Redbrand's cell doors	Thieves' tools	10	LMoP
Picking the lock of Cragmaw Castle's postern door	Thieves' tools	15	LMoP
Picking the lock of the assayer's iron strongbox	Thieves' tool	20	LMoP
Picking the lock of the priest's quarters	Thieves' tool	15	LMoP
Sneaking past a sleeping Hill Giant without waking her	Stealth	8	AtG
Picking the lock of the Hill Giant matron's iron chest	Thieves' tools	15	AtG
Picking the lock of the ogres' iron chest	Thieves' tools	15	AtG
Picking the lock of the wights' "trap" cell	Thieves' tools	10	Atg
Picking the lock of the the Hill Giants' unruly slave barrack gates	Thieves' tools	15	AtG
Picking the lock of the Hill Giants' storage room	Thieves' tools	15	AtG
Disabling the second chest's trap	Thieves' tools	20	AtG
Picking the lock of the secret treasure's iron box	Thieves' tools	15	AtG
Avoiding slipping and falling on the ice of the Glacial Rift	Acrobatics	10	AtG
Not falling when hit by an attack or moving at more than 1/2 speed on slippery ice	Acrobatics	10	AtG
Jamming the shield's trap	Thieves' tools	15	AtG
Opening the invisible iron box	Thieves' tools ?	20	AtG
Noticing the opening of the hidden tunnel	Perception	15 (auto-success if a PC handle the hangings of the area	AtG
Noticing the iron bar of conjuration	Perception	15	AtG
Picking the well-made lock of one of the gigantic iron doors of the Fire Giant's stronghold	Thieves' tools	20	AtG
Picking one of the treasure trunks	Thieves' tools	20	AtG
Disabling the 4th trunk's trap	Thieves' tools	20	AtG
Disabling the 3rd chest's trap	Thieves' tools	20	AtG
Disabling the 1rst coffer's trap	Thieves' tools	15	AtG
Crossing the rope bridge while under fire	Acrobatics	10	FoF
Crossing the rope bridge while under fire, if one of the rope is cut	Acrobatics	12	FoF
Picking the lock of the prisoners' cage	Thieves' tools	12	FoF
Picking the rusted shut lock of the orc commons' iron gate	Thieves' tools	12	FoF
Picking the lock of the grand stair's door	Thieves' tool	10	FoF
Fighting the flames of the fire trap	--	10 (first check diminishes the flames, seconds put them out)	FoF
Disabling the fire trap	Thieves' tools	12	FoF
Deactivating the fire trap after having identified the activation mechanism	Thieves' tools	10/td] [td]FoF
Disabling the poison trap on the dwarven statue	Thieves' tools	12	FoF
Descending while walking in the cold stream	Acrobatics	8	FoF
Not falling on the slippery slope	Acrobatics	10	FoF
Picking the lock of the iron door of Durgeddin's halls	Thieves' tools	18	FoF
Picking the lock of the dwarven prison	Thieves' tool	15	FoF
Jaming the moving statue trap	Thieves' tools	10	FoF
Moving through 10 feet of masonry debris	Acrobatics	10	SC

Spoiler: Intelligence Checks

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INTELLIGENCE CHECKS
Task	Proficiency	DC	Module
Relating some of the background of Sildar Hallwinter's mine	History	15	LMoP
Discerning the Redbrand's bridges are faulty	Investigation	15	LMoP
Recognizing the "Talon" magic sword and recalling its lore	History	15	LMoP
Recognizing Kost's tattoo as necromantic symbol	Arcana	10	LMoP
Recognizing Kost's red robes as being the ones of a Red Wizard of Thay	History	10	LMoP
Recognizing the statue in the ruins' town square is depiction Palien, hero at the time of the town's founding	History	15	LMoP
Identifying which deities were once revered in the chapel of Cragmaw Castle (check for cleric)	Religion	10	LMoP
Noticing the dungeon's map among the old tomes	Investigation	12	LMoP
Identifying the Brazier of Green Flame as the source of the magic suffusing the cave	Arcana	15	LMoP
Identifying of whom the god Dumathoin's statue is	Religion	auto-success if proficient	LMoP
Discovering the jewels on the statue of Dumathoin are fake	Investigation	15	LMoP
Determining the unlit torch in the guests' quarters is an illusion without touching it	Investigation	15	AtG
Determining the yellow mold in the treasure room is an illusion	Investigation	15	AtG
Determining one of the illusory walls' nature	Investigation	15	AtG
Deducing the fire trap's spouts are part of a trap	Investigation	10	FoF
Identifying the fire trap's activation mechanism	Investigation	10	FoF
Crafting alchemist's fire from the dregs in the fire trap's tanks	Alchemist's supplies (must be proficient to try)	15	FoF
Identifying the fungi spore threat	Nature	10	FoF
Identifying the unused doors' nature, near the moving statue trap	Investigation	15	FoF
Identifying the moving statue trap's mechanism	Investigation	15	FoF
Identifying that the stone was affected by acid	Investigation	10	FoF
Knowing that the Ashen Plain desolation is attributed to the long-ago rampage of the dragon Ashardalon	History	15	SC
Discovering the area around the pillars hosted many small campfires, the most recent one a month old.	Investigation	10	SC

Spoiler: Wisdom Checks

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WISDOM CHECKS
Task	Proficiency	DC	Module
Recognizing that ~12 goblins have come and gone along a trail, with two human-sized bodies being hauled away.	Survival	10	LMoP
Finding a snare on the goblins' trail.	Perception	12	LMoP
Finding a pit trap on the goblins' trail.	Perception	15	LMoP
Hearing activities in nearby chambers within the Cragmaw Hideout	Perception	15	LMoP
Calming the wolves in the Cragmaw Hideout's kennels	Animal Handling	15	LMoP
Calming the wolves in the Cragmaw Hideout's kennels, if they're fed	Animal Handling	10	LMoP
Realizing Halia has ulterior motives for wanting the Redbrand bandits' leader dead	Insight	15	LMoP
Finding a Redbrand Hideout's secret door, when taking the time to search	Perception	10	LMoP
Finding the hidden satchel in the Redbrand Hideout's cistern	Perception	15 (auto-success if cistern is probed)	LMoP
Finding the pit trap in the Redbrand's hall	Perception	15	LMoP
Hearing bugbears ordering goblins around by listening through the door	Perception	10	LMoP
Hearing enemies playing a game of knucklebones by listening through the door	Perception	10	LMoP
Hearing bubbling and dripping sound by listening through the door of the wizard's lab	Perception	15	LMoP
Finding the hidden chest among tree roots	Perception	10
Finding the hidden case in the herbalist's shop	Perception	15	LMoP
Finding the Axe-Bitter's orc camp	Perception/Survival	15/10	LMoP
Finding the tripwire in Cragmaw Castle's hall, if actively searching for traps	Perception	10	LMoP
Seeing the footpath to the hidden entrance in the ruined tower	Perception	15	LMoP
Finding an hidden entrance from outside Cragmaw Castle	Perception	10	LMoP
Noticing the chest in the ruined tower's second floor, from the first floor	Perception	15	LMoP
Hearsîng faint crunching and splintering sounds (ghouls being present) through a partially open door	Perception	10
Hearing the bugbears through the barricaded barracks' door	Perception	10	LMoP
Finding people's remain under heavy rubbles at the bottom of the rift	Perception	20	LMoP
Finding one of the secret doors in the Hill Giants' steading	Perception	12	AtG
Noticing the door hidden by the manticore hide	Perception	20 (auto-success if you touch/look behind the manticore hide)	AtG
Finding the secret scroll tubes hidden in the pile of logs	Perception	15	AtG
Finding one of the secret doors in the Hill Giants' dungeon	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the second chest's trap	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the trap pit's trapdoor	Perception	15	AtG
Finding one of the the Glacial Rift's secret doors, which are covered by ice and snow	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the trap on the shield	Perception	15	AtG
Finding one of the Fire Giant stronghold's secret doors	Perception	20	AtG
Seeing the ballista's trapwire	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the strongbox's secret compartment	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the jade box's false bottom	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the 4th treasure trunk's trap	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the 3rd chest's trap	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the 4th chest's trap	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the 1rst coffer's trap	Perception	20	AtG
Finding's the false bottom of Obmi's chest	Perception	15	AtG
Finding the hidden arrow holes in the west alcove	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the chest's pressure plates in the west aclove	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the false bottom of the kennel's bucket	Perception	15	AtG
Identifying that the Empyrean has been drugged with a virulent variation of oil of taggit	Medicine	15	AtG
Noticing the trap's mechanism on the 3rd chest of the wererats' lair as the PC opens it	Perception	20	AtG
Finding the potion box's secret compartment	Perception	20	AtG
Noticing the spidersilk tripwire	Perception	20	AtG
Discovering that four booted humanoids came down and went to the forest within the last day	Survival	10	FoF
Traveling in the direction of the chimney by following the smoke	Survival	10	FoF
Finding the natural chimney in the hill by following the smoke	Perception	10	FoF
Spotting the old reptilian footprints and bear paw prints at the orc tunnel's entrance	Survival	10	FoF
Discovering the secret passage at the bottom of the Dark Mere	Perception	12	FoF
Hearing sounds of activities through one of Khundrukar's doors	Perception	10	FoF
Hearing quiet sounds through one of Khundrukar's doors	Perception	15	FoF
Noticing arrow slits on the path to the front door	Perception	15	FoF
Noticing one of the secret doors in the rift hall	Perception	15	FoF
Noticing the pressure plates to open the secret doors in the rift hall	Perception	15	FoF
Noticing the secret door near the archers' stations	Perception	18	FoF
Noticing the first secret door in the orcs' commons	Perception	15	FoF
Noticing the second secret door in the orcs' commons	Perception	12	FoF
Finding the cache behind the loose stone	Perception	15	FoF
Finding the leather sacks among the shaman's clutter	Perception	10	FoF
Noticing the secret exit on the west	Perception	12	FoF
Detecting the fire trap's spouts	Perception	15	FoF
Noticing the pressure plates that activate the poison gas trap on the dwarven statue	Perception	15	FoF
Discovering the secret door in the bunk room	Perception	15	FoF
Finding another cache behind another loose stone	Perception ?	10	FoF
Finding the footprints of reptilian creatures on the banks	Survival	10	FoF
Finding the ruby in the chief's chamber	Perception	10	FoF
Calming the troglodytes' bear	Animal Handling (must be proficient)	15	FoF
Identifying the fungi spore threat	Survival	10	FoF
Noticing the slime-covered slippery slope	Perception	15	FoF
Noticing the slime-covered slippery slope	Survival	15	FoF
Finding the old jailer's key in the grim	Perception	10	FoF
Determining from where the hammering sounds come,	Perception	13	FoF
Discovering the infrequently used trail	Survival	13	FoF
Noticing the axe strike marks from the trap on the floor	Perception	15	FoF
Noticing the secret stairwell door	Perception	18	FoF
Noticing the secret stairwell door, if the faint trail is found	Perception	10	FoF
Noticing the concealed chain ladder	Perception	10	FoF
Noticing the bedchamber's not-well-hidden secret door	Perception	10	FoF
Finding the bedchamber of the scholar's secret compartment	Perception	15	FoF
Identifying the tracks as being from a reptilian quadruped	Survival	10	FoF
Discovering the area around the pillars hosted many small campfires, the most recent one a month old.	Survival	10	SC
Finding the footprints of several humanoids and the tracks of rodents of unusual size leading down the ledge's stairs	Survival	10	SC

Spoiler: Charisma Checks

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CHARISMA CHECKS
Task	Proficiency	DC	Module
Convincing bugbears the PCs are their Redbrand allies and to help them	Deception	15	LMoP
Getting the Cragmaw Castle's location from a captured bugbear	Intimidation	15	LMoP
Pretending to be a Redbrand new recruit when talking to the bandits in the common room	Deception	10	LMoP
Convincing the banshee diviner Agatha to answer one question, while being polite and respectful	Persuasion	15	LMoP
Convincing the hobgoblin Targor Bloodsword to not kill the PCs for having killed his leader	Persuasion	15	LMoP
Convinving Mormesk the wraith of the value of the PCs' bribe in exchange for their lives	Persuasion	10	LMoP
Tricking the Spectator the PCs are wizards or miners working for the Wave Echo Cave's owners sent to terminate the Spectator's employement	Deception	15	LMoP
Convincing the druergar spy Ghared to give information	Persuasion	20	FoF
Convincing the druergar spy Ghared to give information, with a suitable bribe	Persuasion	10	FoF

[PhoenixPhyre]

Interesting. So far, the only values seen are

10, 12, 15, and 20, 22, and 25.

Most of the things at 20+ are likely (not knowing the module) supposed to be done narratively (find a key, find a map, etc).

That reinforces my sense that DC 10 is for "normal" things and DC 15 is for "normal hard" things, with DC 20 for "non-standard" solutions to problems that shouldn't work normally.

[LudicSavant]

Finding people's remain under heavy rumbles at the bottom of the rift

Should that say rubble instead of rumbles?

[ErHo]

Nice cheat sheet! My daughter has started a group and this is perfect for her DM screen

[Unoriginal]

Nice cheat sheet! My daughter has started a group and this is perfect for her DM screen

No it's not. Using it for a DM's screen is missing the whole point.

[Man_Over_Game]

No it's not. Using it for a DM's screen is missing the whole point.

You've done a great job compiling the information. I do want to say that right off the bat. But there shouldn't be a "wrong way" to use the information. It's a fact that these are the numbers used in Lost Mines of Phandelver. How someone uses those facts doesn't have to align with how you plan to.

It could very well be that her group is starting with that very same module! I'm sure that's how plenty of groups started, it's fairly fleshed out.

But I get what you're saying though. ErHo is saying "These are good!", and it seems like you're going more for "Let's see why these are bad", but we probably shouldn't be chastising people for using pre-determined information as a resource.

[PhoenixPhyre]

You've done a great job compiling the information. I do want to say that right off the bat. But there shouldn't be a "wrong way" to use the information. It's a fact that these are the numbers used in Lost Mines of Phandelver. How someone uses those facts doesn't have to align with how you plan to.

It could very well be that her group is starting with that very same module! I'm sure that's how plenty of groups started, it's fairly fleshed out.

But I get what you're saying though. ErHo is saying "These are good!", and it seems like you're going more for "Let's see why these are bad", but we probably shouldn't be chastising people for using pre-determined information as a resource.

The "wrong way" is to blindly transplant numbers and assume that any similar thing has the same numbers based on a single sentence description. Looking for patterns? That's fine. Figuring out what works for your particular group (and realizing that there should be more DC 10 than 15 than 20 checks) is good. Using it as a crutch to avoid learning how to set them yourself? Not so good.

[BeefGood]

No it's not. Using it for a DM's screen is missing the whole point.

What about just printing it and keeping it on the table behind the DM screen? Because if it ends up in a printable format then I will gladly do that.

[Unoriginal]

OP is not edited with Against the Giant's DCs.

But there shouldn't be a "wrong way" to use the information. It's a fact that these are the numbers used in Lost Mines of Phandelver. How someone uses those facts doesn't have to align with how you plan to.

Using them as "cheat sheet" a context that is not the Lost Mines of Phandelver is a "wrong way" to use the information, in the sense that it makes the information irrelevant.

It could very well be that her group is starting with that very same module! I'm sure that's how plenty of groups started, it's fairly fleshed out.

If the group is going through LMoP, those tables are a pretty atrocious way to go through the DCs, given that the DM would have to cross-reference both on a temportal and an ability axis to find a relevant information (ie they have to check where is the ability check happening anyway, in which case the module give them the DC already).

But I get what you're saying though. ErHo is saying "These are good!", and it seems like you're going more for "Let's see why these are bad", but we probably shouldn't be chastising people for using pre-determined information as a resource.

I'm not saying "these are bad". I'm saying "there are what they are in this narrow context", and ErHo is saying "nice cheat sheet", which implies not using them in a narrow context.

What about just printing it and keeping it on the table behind the DM screen? Because if it ends up in a printable format then I will gladly do that.

Why? It holds no relevant information.

[Man_Over_Game]

I see what you mean now, good point. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

[Unoriginal]

In any case, thank you guys for the compliments.

Should that say rubble instead of rumbles?

It should, yes. Thanks.

[Erys]

You have a couple Perception DCs under Dexterity checks... is that intentional?

I do not have the modules to look.

[Unoriginal]

You have a couple Perception DCs under Dexterity checks... is that intentional?

I do not have the modules to look.

Nope, those are typos due to the forum's editing interface.

[Unoriginal]

The DCs of Forge of Fury are now all done.

[Hadoken]

This is cool, excellent work so far! Is it possible to do a quick sort by DC so that they are in ascending order (even if you keep them grouped by module)?

[JellyPooga]

Using them as "cheat sheet" a context that is not the Lost Mines of Phandelver is a "wrong way" to use the information, in the sense that it makes the information irrelevant.

Woah. Wait. What?

You're going to have to explain this just a little more, because what you're saying lacks any kind of sense to me. This list telling us that bashing an iron door down should probably be in the 20-25 DC range for a Str check, unless you want it to be otherwise is a useful guide, taken out of the context of the adventure they're in. To say otherwise is...a bit weird?

[Unoriginal]

Woah. Wait. What?

You're going to have to explain this just a little more, because what you're saying lacks any kind of sense to me. This list telling us that bashing an iron door down should probably be in the 20-25 DC range for a Str check, unless you want it to be otherwise is a useful guide, taken out of the context of the adventure they're in. To say otherwise is...a bit weird?

That list is NOT telling you that.

One, does not tell you what the DC of anything "should" be, not even probably.

Two, if you read the list, you can see that the exemple DCs for forcing open different iron doors in different contexts go from 15 to 25 (at the time I've written this post, anyway) , which demonstrates that there is no "DC to force open an iron door" in 5e, and that trying to use those exemples out of context is not useful.

Like always in 5e, what matters is the answer to "is this particular task very easy, easy, medium, hard, very hard, or near impossible in this context?" The writers of those different adventures decided that various irons would be of medium difficulty, while others very hard.

[PhoenixPhyre]

A non-comprehensive list of things that might materially differ, even if the door itself is identical:

• Location. Is it located somewhere where you have plenty of room to swing/run? Is it located somewhere where the environment (salt air, etc) might weaken the hinges/door?
• Door frame. You don't need to break the door if you can rip the hinges from the frame.
• "Locking" mechanism. A bar with brackets set in stone is going to be much harder to break than a simple latch.
• Maintenance. One that's well-taken-care-of will differ materially from one that's been neglected for centuries.

Moving beyond identical doors, the following all would count (for these purposes) as an "iron door":

• A shoddy iron-banded door, rusted and with warped wood that doesn't fit well in its frame.
• A masterpiece, dwarf-wrought iron vault door with embedded spider-bolts, set into a stone frame.
• Anything in between and many other things.

There isn't a generic, central casting "iron door". There is only this door and that door.

[Unoriginal]

A non-comprehensive list of things that might materially differ, even if the door itself is identical:

• Location. Is it located somewhere where you have plenty of room to swing/run? Is it located somewhere where the environment (salt air, etc) might weaken the hinges/door?
• Door frame. You don't need to break the door if you can rip the hinges from the frame.
• "Locking" mechanism. A bar with brackets set in stone is going to be much harder to break than a simple latch.
• Maintenance. One that's well-taken-care-of will differ materially from one that's been neglected for centuries.

Moving beyond identical doors, the following all would count (for these purposes) as an "iron door":

• A shoddy iron-banded door, rusted and with warped wood that doesn't fit well in its frame.
• A masterpiece, dwarf-wrought iron vault door with embedded spider-bolts, set into a stone frame.
• Anything in between and many other things.

There isn't a generic, central casting "iron door". There is only this door and that door.

Indeed. I'm listing DCs for individual situations, not platonic ideals.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Indeed. I'm listing DCs for individual situations, not platonic ideals.

And I'd be willing to bet (since I don't have the modules themselves to check) that the rest of the circumstances described there (beyond a simple 1 sentence description) make it clear(er) why some are easier/harder than others.

It's all about the totality of the circumstances. No single-sentence/single-phrase description can pin things down enough, at least if you care about having a living world where things make sense in context.

[Unoriginal]

And I'd be willing to bet (since I don't have the modules themselves to check) that the rest of the circumstances described there (beyond a simple 1 sentence description) make it clear(er) why some are easier/harder than others.

It's all about the totality of the circumstances. No single-sentence/single-phrase description can pin things down enough, at least if you care about having a living world where things make sense in context.

Well, if you take into account all the circumstences, sure, you can probably see the reasons fot the DCs, but most of the instances don't have big explanations, because it's not interesting. It's more "this is a blocked door in this long ruined village, Strength check DC 10 to open " or "this is the door of a Fire Giant stronghold, picking the lock with thieves' tools is Dexterity check DC 20", with the fact the Fire Giants have expert craftspersons being only implied to have an incidence.

Some don't have nor need explanations, such as why finding the tracks of the rodents of unusual size on the Sunless Citadel's ledge is a DC 15 Wisdom check with Survival proficiency applying, it's just the DC implying doing so is not easy.

[JellyPooga]

That list is NOT telling you that.

One, does not tell you what the DC of anything "should" be, not even probably.

Two, if you read the list, you can see that the exemple DCs for forcing open different iron doors in different contexts go from 15 to 25 (at the time I've written this post, anyway) , which demonstrates that there is no "DC to force open an iron door" in 5e, and that trying to use those exemples out of context is not useful.

Like always in 5e, what matters is the answer to "is this particular task very easy, easy, medium, hard, very hard, or near impossible in this context?" The writers of those different adventures decided that various irons would be of medium difficulty, while others very hard.

Context is important, yes, but as a rough guide this list is telling the newbie, the uninitiated, the unsure, that an iron door should probably be harder to break down than your average wooden door. Now, that seems pretty obvious to most of us, but for someone who isn't an experienced GM, a list of published DC's for a variety of things, many of which are similar circumstances, it's a useful guide to have handy. Just a cursory look gives a correlation between, to use the example, iron doors that they're usually in the 20-25 range, sometimes a little lower. This is a useful thing. Your claiming that it isn't, whether or not that's the intention of the compilation, is wilful ignorance of potential.

[Unoriginal]

as a rough guide this list is telling

This list is NOT a "rough guide", nor is it telling anything of the sort.

the newbie, the uninitiated, the unsure, that an iron door should probably be harder to break down than your average wooden door.

A newbie, uninitiated or unsure person should learn that the DC does not depend on that kind of things.

Also, no, you're incorrect. This list show several exemples of wooden doors being harder to force open than some of the iron ones. Just to prove there is no correlation.

it's a useful guide to have handy.

No, it isn't. Unless you need a guide to tell you hard tasks are hard and easy tasks are easy.

Just a cursory look gives a correlation between, to use the example, iron doors that they're usually in the 20-25 range, sometimes a little lower.

Incorrect. This is not the result looking at the exemples shows.

is wilful ignorance of potential.

Don't claim I'm willfully ignorant. You're willfully ignoring the very purpose of this thread, my OP, the data on the list you claim is useful, and 5e's basic design, because you're trying to shove the square peg that is a 3.X-like skill system into the round hole that is the 5e ability check system.

[Kane0]

I think an adventure DC list has been compiled here before, my google-fu fails me however.

Edit: Wait, found one! It doesn't leave references though I'm sure others have.

[JellyPooga]

You're willfully ignoring the very purpose of this thread, my OP, the data on the list you claim is useful, and 5e's basic design.

The purpose of the thread is irrelevant. The utility of the information is. If 5 entries say "iron doors have a DC in the 20-25 range" and one says "this iron door is DC 15", then you can take from that, that iron doors are usually going to be pretty tough and that "pretty tough" should be a DC of 20+. That's useful, regardless of your intention.

Iron doors notwithstanding, they're just an example. There's other things on that list that might not be as obvious as to what DC you should, or want, to set. As a guide, it's a useful list. I'm repeating it, because of how vague it is. Breaking an iron door is obviously more difficult than a wooden one, but is lifting an iron grate harder than breaking a wooden door? that's not so obvious. Yes, you can change the scenario from a wooden door to an iron door is an option to make the difficulty easier, but that's not an obvious option to a new GM.

[Unoriginal]

though I'm sure others have.

Well if you find them feel free to post them.

The purpose of the thread is irrelevant.

Well keep insulting my work, go on. It makes this conversation even more charming.

If 5 entries say "iron doors have a DC in the 20-25 range" and one says "this iron door is DC 15", then you can take from that, that iron doors are usually going to be pretty tough and that "pretty tough" should be a DC of 20+. That's useful, regardless of your intention.

The bloody PHB already tells you that hard tasks are DC 20+, and no, even if there was a thousands exemples of iron doors, it wouldn't tell you anything. The idea that iron objects are tough is common sense, it doesn't depend on a list, and it doesn't inform anything aobut the DC to force open this particular door in those particular circumstances.

There's other things on that list that might not be as obvious as to what DC you should, or want, to set.

This list does not give DC that you "should" or "want" to set. You can decide ANY task is ANY DC.

Breaking an iron door is obviously more difficult than a wooden one

Except when it isn't. Like several of the exemples on the list.

but is lifting an iron grate harder than breaking a wooden door? that's not so obvious.

And this list won't give you any answer with that, because it will only treats of specific iron gates and specific wooden doors in specific context, and the various instances will have different DCs.

Yes, you can change the scenario from a wooden door to an iron door is an option to make the difficulty easier, but that's not an obvious option to a new GM.

No, you don't change the door from wood to iron to change the difficulty, you change the DC because you are the DM and so it's you who decides the DC, not a bloody list.

[JellyPooga]

Well keep insulting my work, go on. It makes this conversation even more charming.

You think I'm insulting you? I'm saying your compilation has actual, useful application for newer GM's and players who might not know where/how to spit-ball or set DC's in their campaigns because they don't have experience doing so and that a list of published DC's might actually be useful to get an idea of what DC might be appropriate for what they have in mind.

You want to deny your list has application because "DC's are only ever as hard as you want them to be"? That makes your list completely without application and therefore useless. Yes, a GM should set whatever DC they feel appropriate for the encounter they have in mind. At the same time, an experienced GM doesn't break immersion by having the players come across an iron-clad, heavily bolted door which is easily broken by a DC:10 Str check, when it took a DC:25 check to break down the mouldy, worm-ridden door they tried to break down last time.

Carry on bigging up how pointless your OP is if you like, but I'm out.

[BeefGood]

I’m having a tough time not seeing this list as useful for setting DCs in my campaign.What might help is for OP to give an example of how it is intended to be used. That might help me see the difference.

[Unoriginal]

I’m having a tough time not seeing this list as useful for setting DCs in my campaign.What might help is for OP to give an example of how it is intended to be used. That might help me see the difference.

Ask yourself this: why would it be useful to set DCs in your campaign?

Answer: it wouldn't. You don't go "this is an iron door, the list says iron doors have a DC of 15, so this has a DC of 15". Going like that is contrary to the core concepts of 5e.

As this list plainly shows, the tasks' DCs are not established like that. For example, the Redbrand hideout's doors in LMoP, made mainly of wood, take a STR check DC 20 to force open, while the orc commons' iron door in FoF take a STR check DC 15 to do the same, while the troglodyte's the mud-and-wattle door after it's been secured, in the same adventure, also has a DC of 15

5e doesn't have a "X generic task has Y DC" mindset. You decide what is the appropriate difficulty for the specific task in a specific context, as in, should it be easy, medium, hard, etc, and then give the DC.

This list is just an attempt at data gathering to show why it is pointless to try and go "X task has Y DC" because people are stuck on a 3.X style skill system which has nothing to do in 5e.


Maybe I should just give up and delete it. Probably for the best.

[Kane0]

Found another one.