[In Nomine] opinions on artifact costs

[JeenLeen]

I've been enjoying a great PbP game of In Nomine here on the forums, and have found that system to be one of my favorites mechanically.

One thing, though, that bugs me is the cost of artifacts.
Corporeal Artifacts seem okay-priced. They're not too expensive, but they don't do much beyond flavor. Cool for a fluff and minor mechanical boon. A bit better if you use the rules from a supplement about them not causing Symphonic disturbance as easily.

Ethereal Artifacts seem like trash, from a mechanical perspective. Since it costs 2 points per rank to buy a talisman, but 1 point to rank to really know the skill yourself... you're paying double-cost for the same benefit. And it can be stolen.
The boon I see is that you can let someone else hold the talisman.

Celestial Artifacts seem a mixed-bag. I can see reqliuaries as a good way to get extra essence (basically trading 3 points to boost your max essence and essence regen), but most of the rest -- especially if I look through the artifact supplement book -- seem not worth the point-cost.

I can see doing this as a good way to keep them from being abused. Compass of Attunement is about the only thing that looks really worthwhile to me, due to its duration as way better than Song of Celestial Attraction.) Well, and a Body Bag, for not-dying purposes. I could see a gunslinger using Holy/Unholy Pistol, but the extra cost of that seems too risky to rely on the check digit. You'd need at least 2 ranks to get an effect, and that's a lot of your build right there.

So I figured I'd post here and see if anyone else wanted to chat or give opinions.

[opaopajr]

It really helps to have Liber Reliquarum supplement to understand the real values of each 'layer of reality' artifact.

Corporeals are cheap, yes. But if attuned to they are also always known when they exist, and roughly in the direction to where it is on the corporeal plane. That's... huge. Every other mundane thing is easily lost or taken by play circumstances, but corporeal artifacts are a way the GM can say "you know you at least have this... somewhere on Earth (or the corporeal plane)."

Talismans and Relics are another story entirely. A huge feature they have is resistance to entropy/maintenance: so cars don't need fuel or oil or new spark plugs, etc. This is ridiculously strong for a baseline. Imagine a tool that doesn't rust, or paint sets that don't run out. All they sometimes need is a touch of essence to fire them up.

Next comes the basics of artifacts and reality layers.
Corporeal exist just upon the corporeal.
Talismans existing on two of the layered realities: corporeal & ethereal.
Relics & Reliquaries existing on all three: corporeal, ethereal, & celestial.

Thus talismans & relic/quaries are also more resilient to breakage over time than comparable corporeal artifacts. AND since existing more enmeshed into different reality layers of the Symphony, they are hard to permanently destroy!
Depending on the context and artifact use that's a lot of power!

There's way more, especially building your own + & - features, but the above helps establish why there's a major power difference.

[thorr-kan]

Liber Reliquarum for the Win. Really.

I *think* talismans allows skills over 6. Also, as noted, can be loaned.

For reference, stop by the In Nomine forum at sjgames.com. We're not real active, but ArchAngel Beth, the Line Editor, checks in from time to time.

[Erulasto]

I really wish In Nomine had a bigger following on here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be a pioneer, but still. It'd be nice if it got some more love.

[thorr-kan]

I really wish In Nomine had a bigger following on here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to be a pioneer, but still. It'd be nice if it got some more love.

It's 21-year-old (WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN!?), niche RPG based on a completely satirical French RPG that treats the source material completely differently. It's a miracle *anybody's* heard of it.

I wish IN got more love, too. (Hangs head.)

I've only actually ever run into one IN player in person. About 10 years ago, a cashier at Borders (I'm dating myself, aren't I?) noted my RPG purchase. She mentioned currently playing in a group with a circle of friends. I was gobsmacked. And jealous. I have never gotten to play IN; I just get to read the materials, lust after a player group, and keep the embers alive.

[opaopajr]

Love the game, but yeah, players are hard to find. One of the few games where I bought the complete printed run. Also loved visiting the SJG official boards back in the day. Eh, things come, things go...

[thorr-kan]

Love the game, but yeah, players are hard to find. One of the few games where I bought the complete printed run. Also loved visiting the SJG official boards back in the day. Eh, things come, things go...

The SJGames forums are still there! Forums.sjgames.com

I miss the old Pyramid boards, too.

[JeenLeen]

One other ruling question I'll ask about, since I think I saw it ruled both ways.

Can you go to Heaven (or Hell) at a Tether without spending essence?

If I remember right, it'd normally cost 1 essence to turn celestial and then 2 more to ascend to the celestial realm. But in one FAQ it seemed at least the 2 point cost to ascend was nullified at a Tether. But I think I read in another that the only benefit of a Tether was not needing to make the Will roll to ascend.

---

I might check out its forum. Beyond a few minor things that annoy me (and every game has those), I think this is my favorite system thus far.

[Rockphed]

One of the gaming blogs I read posts occasional In Nomine stuff. If I thought I had time to pick In Nomine up, I probably would. I find some parts of the setting really cool, while other parts just leave me shaking my head.

Here, let me introduce the great cow race of 2003:

Essentially, a gang of Ofanim of the Wind come into possession of some cows. They proceed to find a cow race track (I am told they were a thing). The players get wind of this, and should end up having to make sure nothing goes sour (or they should make sure things go incredibly sour if they are of infernal origin). Hilarity, as they say, should ensue.

[thorr-kan]

Ah, Moe Lane. One of the most prolific and gifted writers of the comatose In Nomine email list...good times, good times.

[thorr-kan]

One other ruling question I'll ask about, since I think I saw it ruled both ways.

Can you go to Heaven (or Hell) at a Tether without spending essence?

If I remember right, it'd normally cost 1 essence to turn celestial and then 2 more to ascend to the celestial realm. But in one FAQ it seemed at least the 2 point cost to ascend was nullified at a Tether. But I think I read in another that the only benefit of a Tether was not needing to make the Will roll to ascend.

Core book says 2 Essence to turn celestial (hardback, p54) but nothing about Essence to ascend.

Ascending *does* require a Will role, unless at a Tether. Celestial forms can ascend a Tether automatically (hardback, p59).