Flash season 5 discusion thread

[khadgar567]

Ragdoll was done well. Creepy, creeping and menacing. I wonder if they got a real contortionist to play the part. Also fun to see Ralph Spider-Man his way through the city.

well just for the creepiness factor you do need a contortionist to play it but the bone snapping sounds made it such that its both creepy and cool and lets not forget its the second guy with ragdoll name there is also the arrow one.

[BWR]

ets not forget its the second guy with ragdoll name there is also the arrow one.

I think you mean Ragman, who had magic rags that let him do cool stuff, like absorb a nuke.

[khadgar567]

I think you mean Ragman, who had magic rags that let him do cool stuff, like absorb a nuke.

yes i mixed both of them.

[Pex]

Ragdoll was done well. Creepy, creeping and menacing. I wonder if they got a real contortionist to play the part. Also fun to see Ralph Spider-Man his way through the city.

They had no way of knowing when they filmed the episode, but it was perfect timing given the circumstances.

I find it annoying we don't really learn why Ragdoll was doing what he was doing. How was everything connected? Why that necklace? Why that building? Why hurt Iris emotionally? What was Iris' lead?

The villains of the week this season only exist because they have to, weak mcguffins superfluous of anything.

[khadgar567]

They had no way of knowing when they filmed the episode, but it was perfect timing given the circumstances.

I find it annoying we don't really learn why Ragdoll was doing what he was doing. How was everything connected? Why that necklace? Why that building? Why hurt Iris emotionally? What was Iris' lead?

The villains of the week this season only exist because they have to, weak mcguffins superfluous of anything.

I dont think so as the major problem of this saeason is teaching nora how to become super hero and that kinda bunch of non heroic lessons she needs to learn before beating cicada. villians like ragdoll can feel unnecery but each of them kinda effect plot in small yet powerful scale.

[random11]

During the episode, I shouted at the people around me to stop with those damn popcorn noises.
Then I remembered I'm actually alone in my room, and the noise is from the TV. Oh well.

Decent episode, I like how they focus more on "becoming a hero" than the villains, and personally I prefer a good "villain of the week" episode over the absurd multiple connections to some final evil of the season.


That being said, how did it never occurred to Cisco to try and connect the satellites? He's supposed to be the smart guy, not just being defined by his powers.
The fact it took him about 5 seconds to do so makes it even more obvious.

Also, I liked the end with Caitlin after everything they have been through:
"Do you want us to find your father?"
"No, that's all right, I'll wait to the end of the season"

[khadgar567]

During the episode, I shouted at the people around me to stop with those damn popcorn noises.
Then I remembered I'm actually alone in my room, and the noise is from the TV. Oh well.

Decent episode, I like how they focus more on "becoming a hero" than the villains, and personally I prefer a good "villain of the week" episode over the absurd multiple connections to some final evil of the season.


That being said, how did it never occurred to Cisco to try and connect the satellites? He's supposed to be the smart guy, not just being defined by his powers.
The fact it took him about 5 seconds to do so makes it even more obvious.

Also, I liked the end with Caitlin after everything they have been through:
"Do you want us to find your father?"
"No, that's all right, I'll wait to the end of the season"

smart guy who still needs to get over his angst arc and breach himself back to reality as dude is still mopping about gypsy and yet some how can not say f it and breach him self to her.

[thorgrim29]

Wow icicle is a terrible villain name! Also it looks like I was wrong about him being behind cicada. drat

[Pex]

Last year I saw the Honest Trailer of The Flash. He made a point of Grant Gustin shaking his head. I hadn't noticed. Now I can't not notice. He does it all the time. It hasn't reached annoyance level yet. Why does he do it? It does not make what he says more dramatic.

I wonder if this is one of those things you don't notice until someone tells you it's there. He may not even realize himself he'd doing it. I wonder if the cast and crew do.

[The New Bruceski]

Ragdoll was done well. Creepy, creeping and menacing. I wonder if they got a real contortionist to play the part. Also fun to see Ralph Spider-Man his way through the city.

Yes, he was played by Troy James. The guy was on America's Got talent and has since been in like four different shows as creepy crawly characters.

[Pex]

Yes, he was played by Troy James. The guy was on America's Got talent and has since been in like four different shows as creepy crawly characters.

I thought so. I don't watch that show, but once in a while I'll see a clip online. I saw his performance after the Flash episode and wondered if he was Rag Doll.

[BWR]

The plot thickens.
Not quite sure what to make of Nora now, but I don't think it's malicious.

[random11]

For @#%k sake, if you have to use time travel (again...), can you at least PRETEND it's only the last resort after you tried anything else?!

The speed force must be very frustrated, making all the tea-cup analogies to warn Barry of the dangers, only to see him go again and again.
And for what? Nothing. The real solution was already in their own base including the knowledge that it exists.

[khadgar567]

For @#%k sake, if you have to use time travel (again...), can you at least PRETEND it's only the last resort after you tried anything else?!

The speed force must be very frustrated, making all the tea-cup analogies to warn Barry of the dangers, only to see him go again and again.
And for what? Nothing. The real solution was already in their own base including the knowledge that it exists.

well, the core problem of speed force is you can't change fate when fate requires the events to have happened at end of time hack barry shows he gets the lesson speed force tried to teach him. which he makes sure Nora does not mess the time not nececerly the whole time hack idea of Nora is basicly needed time travel to make sure particular events stay in the proper timeline. but did anyone get the idea that Nora west Allen is the reason rip hunter has his crappy life and lost his family?

[The New Bruceski]

Nice start to Elseworlds. Earth-*90* had 90s Flash and some of the costumes (like Stargirl and Dr Fate) were from almost-90s Smallville. Other little nods as well.

[random11]

1 minute in, and I see a psychiatry doctor suggesting to give super powers to patients with issues.
I stop and take a break.
4 minutes in, I realize the episode is heading toward "Freaky Friday" scenario.
I stop to take another break.

Will my sanity survive till the end of the episode?
Is there any chance considering it's a triple episode?

[random11]

Ok, survived the episode with a few comments.

Spoiler

Show

1) I understand why Oliver needs to be emo for his skills, he needs perfect focus and jokes or small talks can be a distractions.
Not that it ever stopped HIM from making quips, but at least I get the concept.
On the other hand, "being happy makes Barry run faster"? Since when?!

2) Iris is worried that Barry might turn into Oliver, just by saying his stupid catchphrase?
Well, if you haven't noticed, you're about 3 seasons too late to be worried about that.

3) Is it just me, or does Batwoman looks like she is stuck on the roof, looking for a way down?

4) I like Superman in this series, I probably would have liked Supergirl just as much if it wasn't for some awful writing choices.

Meanwhile, the legends were not in the episodes, so they decided to make their own party, with puppets, A-Team start theme, and lots of forth wall breaks.
And
it
was
glorious!

[Pex]

They had to ruin it. They had to end the multi-show Elseworlds story with gratuitous and uncalled for preaching and male-bashing. They couldn't let the story just be the story. They were gracious enough not to do it with the Batwoman story arc despite the publicity for the new show, but as if to apologize they throw it in at the end on Supergirl. I call bull feces in universe Clark Kent makes more than Lois Lane. No way. That was thrown in there to preach as part of the male bashing.

That's it, right there. That's why I never gave Supergirl a chance to see if I would like it to see it. That's why I won't give Batwoman a chance. Hollywood's reputation precedes it. I don't trust them. It's never about the character or the story. It's always about the politics and gender. It's not enough to have strong women, literally and figuratively. They have to belittle men to make themselves feel better.

I don't watch Arrow, but I gave it a try. It hadn't appealed to me. It was gritty, and I don't like gritty. I have been thinking about giving it another try, to watch it on Netflix to catch up, but the glimpses I see of it in these cross-overs reminds me of the grittiness I don't like. Maybe. I was getting annoyed with Flash as it started to become gritty as well with The Thinker, but they dialed it back this season. I haven't watched Daredevil for nearly a month now to finish season 3 for the grittiness. Did I mention I hate gritty?

[Mordar]

Best part of Elseworlds? The line from (real) Barry to (fake) Barry...paraphrase: If you were using your speed properly I never could have laid a finger on you.

It shows the writers know that a non-speed-enhanced character should never be able to touch BA if he doesn't want to be touched. And yet, week after week, they let him get tagged by non-speed-enhanced characters...primarily so the rest of "Team Flash" has a chance to be valuable. Ugh.

I like most of the actors, much of the story...but patience continues to ebb.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

They had to ruin it. They had to end the multi-show Elseworlds story with gratuitous and uncalled for preaching and male-bashing. ... I call bull feces in universe Clark Kent makes more than Lois Lane. No way. That was thrown in there to preach as part of the male bashing. ... It's always about the politics and gender. ... They have to belittle men to make themselves feel better.

Mwah, the reason I thought the scene seemed forced is that they were trying to introduce these characters in a few lines, dropping everyone's names in weird places just so you would hear their names and such. This line was one of the things I thought did work about it. Because sure, while logically Lois would probably be making more than Clark (although there is some brick logic there about how strong the negotiation position of the only man who can get an interview with Superman would be, so it wouldn't be that weird for him to be the best paid reporter in town), the line makes sense for her character. Lois Lane is a go-getter businesswoman who would spout these sort of lines. It's an effective way to show what type of character she is, given the immense constraints on that scene. Not the only choice, but as far as I'm concerned a decent one.

As for the belittling part, this is part of the "strong female character"-type (with quotation marks). They typically beat and/or humiliate a man (a man, not men in general) in his area of expertise to show you how awesome and competent they are in areas traditionally dominated by men. Directors are insecure about whether the audience will get that their female character is strong and independent without that part. These characters are also some of the characters that receive the most hate from feminists as unrealistic, 'men with boobs' or just plain unlikable. I think it's a weird thing to work into a formula, but I don't mind it that much either. I do think this was not an example of that. I thought it was a fine line, and one of the less awkward lines in that scene.

(The second part of this post is basically the flip side of my post in the current Frozen thread, where I applaud that movie for not using the character type described here.)

[random11]

Can someone explain the stupid test to me?

Danger is coming, so what's-his-name is testing alternate worlds for heroes, only to kill most of them.

What exactly was he testing for?
What point is there to give a random villain ultimate power, just to see how the heroes stop him, only to give it again?
What kind of threat can be related to this kind of test?

[The New Bruceski]

Can someone explain the stupid test to me?

Danger is coming, so what's-his-name is testing alternate worlds for heroes, only to kill most of them.

What exactly was he testing for?
What point is there to give a random villain ultimate power, just to see how the heroes stop him, only to give it again?
What kind of threat can be related to this kind of test?

He sees a desperate and hopeless situation on the horizon, so he's looking for people who will keep going and succeed despite that. In the comics Crisis he merges all the universes into one to make it strong enough to fight the Anti-Monitor, so this would be his way of choosing the one for the base template.

[random11]

He sees a desperate and hopeless situation on the horizon, so he's looking for people who will keep going and succeed despite that. In the comics Crisis he merges all the universes into one to make it strong enough to fight the Anti-Monitor, so this would be his way of choosing the one for the base template.

This still doesn't make the test itself better

- The danger he sees is specific, and his test is randomized by the villain he chooses to have the book. If instead he used the book himself, he could emulate whatever it is that is coming to test best reality.

- Since the test is randomized, it's also not equally hard across all realities.

- If it's to test something as generic as "can face unlikely odds", he must have been monitoring something else, because the heroes proven themselves to do just that at least once a season, and I'm guessing most of the alternate universes faced similar levels of dangers.

- Earth 1 kind of cheated, since Super-girl, Super-man and Brainiac were not from the same world.
It's not their fault since they had no idea what the test is, but the monitor should have known that it makes the test pointless.

As a side note, I hope they WON'T go to the "merge universes" story line.
It isn't necessary like it was for the comics, and actually makes things harder because of the interactions between the universes.
(Also, I'm afraid they might combine Black Lightning in the same world)

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Lois Lane is a go-getter businesswoman who would spout these sort of lines.

Okay, the line near the end of the Supergirl episode might have been overdoing it a bit. But my bigger beefs with the episode where the way the test makes so little sense and how they played the bad explanation for what happened in the first Superman film straight. Time does not move slower if you slow down the Earth, two opposite forces cancel each other out, mach 7 is really not that fast for you guys from what I've seen, you're sacrificing yourself for a stupid step 1 of a plan that has no further steps and if you're going mach 7 you're not zapping around the Earth like that. It would still take you about 4 hours to run around the Earth ones, since mach 7 ~ 7000km/h and the meter was defined by having the distance from equator to either pole be 10,000km. You're doing something nonsensical instead of giving us a superfight, stop it.

[Pex]

Okay, the line near the end of the Supergirl episode might have been overdoing it a bit. But my bigger beefs with the episode where the way the test makes so little sense and how they played the bad explanation for what happened in the first Superman film straight. Time does not move slower if you slow down the Earth, two opposite forces cancel each other out, mach 7 is really not that fast for you guys from what I've seen, you're sacrificing yourself for a stupid step 1 of a plan that has no further steps and if you're going mach 7 you're not zapping around the Earth like that. It would still take you about 4 hours to run around the Earth ones, since mach 7 ~ 7000km/h and the meter was defined by having the distance from equator to either pole be 10,000km. You're doing something nonsensical instead of giving us a superfight, stop it.

They could have explained the timey-wimey better if they referenced Flash-time. Piggybacking on each other's speed it's not that they're stopping time but rather from their reference time is stopped. When they had the episode of Flash trying to stop a nuclear bomb, despite being in Flash-time time was still passing for him. They needed to go faster than that to stop time, hence the piggyback.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

They could have explained the timey-wimey better if they referenced Flash-time. Piggybacking on each other's speed it's not that they're stopping time but rather from their reference time is stopped. When they had the episode of Flash trying to stop a nuclear bomb, despite being in Flash-time time was still passing for him. They needed to go faster than that to stop time, hence the piggyback.

But when Barry is in flash time time slows down from his perspective. Here they're slowing it down from apparently Oliver's perspective. Green Arrow is the only person still moving faster. How does that work? And they specifically say they're doing it by slowing down Earth by running at mach 7. Because at that point you have the movement energy of roughly 7^2=49 Concorde passengers, plane not included. Clearly the planet just cannot keep turning with that kind of energy being thrown around. They're even inside a city and taking corners, intercut with shots of them zapping around the globe. And they do it without having any idea on how this is useful, but while fully knowing they're killing themselves.

I'm telling you, it's a good thing this test wasn't a test of intelligence. My bet is they were out of budget.

[thorgrim29]

It kind of looks like they were going for that awesome scene in Justice League where Flash beats Brainiac/Luthor by running around the globe a bunch to destroy the AMAZO, ran out of budget so had him killed offscreen but kept them running for some reason.

[Pex]

How nice for Flash (Grant Gustin) to get married in real life.