Durkon is in a messed up threesome, whether he wants to be or not

[Mad Humanist]

Hilgya is in the process of resurrecting Durkon. We don't know the details of how that came about. (It might take the proverbial 30 strips to get those details.) Probably Hilgya was prepared for two resurrections so she could murder him more than once.

Durkon on the other hand has promised to resurrect Minrah at the first opportunity. If Hilgya has a spare resurrection lying around, Durkon is committed to at least asking if he can borrow the diamonds if not have Hilgya do the deed.

Hilgya might (possibly after a few revenge murders) be willing to kiss and make up with Durkon. However that is all going to be messed up when Durkon asks for help in resurrecting his blonde "friend". Fairly obviously Durkon means nothing sexual by his friendship with Minrah. He just wants to keep a promise to a friend - which is his nature. More than that by his nature he will want to stand by Hilgya and Kudzu to the maximum that is possible and moral and honourable. Minrah might not even be sexually interested in males for all we know. But none of that will stop Hilgya from jumping to conclusion.

This is a train wreck in slow motion.

[Peelee]

Hilgya is in the process of resurrecting Durkon. We don't know the details of how that came about. (It might take the proverbial 30 strips to get those details.) Probably Hilgya was prepared for two resurrections so she could murder him more than once.

Durkon on the other hand has promised to resurrect Minrah at the first opportunity. If Hilgya has a spare resurrection lying around, Durkon is committed to at least asking if he can borrow the diamonds if not have Hilgya do the deed.

My gold is on her having a Raise Dead in addition to Resurrection, because you can't be too sure how much juice you'll need to bring the dead back to life if you're on a moment's notice.

[Mad Humanist]

My gold is on her having a Raise Dead in addition to Resurrection, because you can't be too sure how much juice you'll need to bring the dead back to life if you're on a moment's notice.

If anything I think that strengthens my analysis. Heck she might have a whole stack of raise dead scrolls.

[Peelee]

If anything I think that strengthens my analysis. Heck she might have a whole stack of raise dead scrolls.

Oh, I wasn't refuting, I was just saying she may have some lower-level spells available as well.

[Mad Humanist]

Oh, I wasn't refuting, I was just saying she may have some lower-level spells available as well.

No problem. I'm just a bit puzzled. I started a thread about Hilgya nearly an hour ago and it has not yet descended into a rabid internet quarrel.

[Rrmcklin]

I mean, this assumes that Durkon and Minrah have any romantic feelings for one another, or that Hilgya would care (beyond the general level of "he's a pig") about it even if they did.

'Course, my general opinion is that people are still putting way to much importance in Minrah. And her (eventually) being revived doesn't really change that.

[Mad Humanist]

I mean, this assumes that Durkon and Minrah have any romantic feelings for one another, or that Hilgya would care (beyond the general level of "he's a pig") about it even if they did.

No it assumes only that Durkon will tell Hilgya he intends to bring Minrah back to life and that Hilgya does what she does best.

'Course, my general opinion is that people are still putting way to much importance in Minrah. And her (eventually) being revived doesn't really change that.

I was really expecting Minrah to retire into Valhalla. But for my point it does not matter whether Durkon does bring her back to life. It only matters that Durkon will tell Hilgya about her wish (and that Hilgya does what she does best).

[Jasdoif]

Durkon on the other hand has promised to resurrect Minrah at the first opportunity.

Where do you see that?

[Rrmcklin]

No it assumes only that Durkon will tell Hilgya he intends to bring Minrah back to life and that Hilgya does what she does best.



I was really expecting Minrah to retire into Valhalla. But for my point it does not matter whether Durkon does bring her back to life. It only matters that Durkon will tell Hilgya about her wish (and that Hilgya does what she does best).

I mean, Durkon aside she really has no reason to not bring Minrah back if she can. I doubt she'll have anything against her. Unless she's petty enough to go "If you want it, then no way!" which, fair enough, I could see Hilgya doing.

Though if this come up I just figure it'll be more comedy than anything else. Anything else would be wasting time.

[Yendor]

No it assumes only that Durkon will tell Hilgya he intends to bring Minrah back to life and that Hilgya does what she does best.

The first question is, why would he feel the need to tell Hilgya? The Temple of Thor has clerics capable of raising dead, and they can keep Minrah on ice for as long as it takes to fund the resurrection.

[Peelee]

I mean, Durkon aside she really has no reason to not bring Minrah back if she can.

Two reasons right off the bat:

• Diamonds costing at least 5,000 gp are required for the lowest level rez spell.
• Minrah died in battle and avoided Hel.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

The first question is, why would he feel the need to tell Hilgya? The Temple of Thor has clerics capable of raising dead, and they can keep Minrah on ice for as long as it takes to fund the resurrection.

The first opportunity means asap, meaning if Hilgya has diamonds he must ask for them since he doesn't have any on him.

[Yendor]

The first opportunity means asap, meaning if Hilgya has diamonds he must ask for them since he doesn't have any on him.

Again, where does he say anything about a "first opportunity"?

[Peelee]

Again, where does he say anything about a "first opportunity"?

Even assuming he did say that, Durkon's not an automaton. He's allowed to make judgement calls on what an actual opportunity would be.

But yeah, he doesn't say that. He explicitly says it may take a while, and Minrah says that's OK.

[Caerulea]

Again, where does he say anything about a "first opportunity"?

It doesn't.

It might take a bit. I dinnae know wha tha diamond supply situation'll be like after they bring me back.

Though it can be inferred that Durkon will try to be reasonably prompt, and is only hampered by the potential lack of resources. He gives a justification for the wait, so it seems like he will try to do it as soon as possible.

[Rrmcklin]

Two reasons right off the bat:

• Diamonds costing at least 5,000 gp are required for the lowest level rez spell.
• Minrah died in battle and avoided Hel.

Even assuming he did say that, Durkon's not an automaton. He's allowed to make judgement calls on what an actual opportunity would be.

But yeah, he doesn't say that. He explicitly says it may take a while, and Minrah says that's OK.

True, but I meant if Durkon told Hilgya Minrah wanted to come back.

But, yeah, the very fact that Minrah's not in a hurry as long as it happens (because she understands the gravity of Durkon's situation) makes me think she's not coming back immediately.

[The Pilgrim]

You all need to rule out the idea that Durkon and Hilgya are gonna to match up and be happy every after. Durkon is still LG and Hilgya is still CE. Some folks think she is CN, but that doesn't defeats the "irreconciliable alignments" problem. Durkon believes in honor, responsibility and dwarven traditions. Hilgya belives in exactly the opposite.

Their viewpoints are too different to bring anything but misery to them both and their child if they attempt to become a couple for Kuzdu. And Hilgya has already shown that she isn't going to consensuate any decission about Kuzdu with anyone. And Durkon is not the kind of man to duck on responsibility. The whole thing can only end in disaster.

Ain't gonna happen.

Yes, Durkon has a problem. But that problem is not that Minrah can potentially become a love interest. His problem is that he had a son with a woman whose character is irreconciliable with him's, and who doesn't seems willing to accept any kind of compromise regarding a child Durkon feels responsible for.

I don't really know how The Giant plans to solve that one. He made a tall order, and I am a bit affraid that the resolution will provoke strong and opposed oppinions on the fanbase.

[Peelee]

True, but I meant if Durkon told Hilgya Minrah wanted to come back.

Ah, I misunderstood. My bad!

[zimmerwald1915]

I don't really know how The Giant plans to solve that one. He made a tall order, and I am a bit affraid that the resolution will provoke strong and opposed oppinions on the fanbase.

It's called "child support, and visitation by sending." Perhaps not an ideal solution from Durkon's point of view, but from Kuzdu's, enough money can in theory make up for unspent time.

[Fyraltari]

You all need to rule out the idea that Durkon and Hilgya are gonna to match up and be happy every after. Durkon is still LG and Hilgya is still CE. Some folks think she is CN, but that doesn't defeats the "irreconciliable alignments" problem. Durkon believes in honor, responsibility and dwarven traditions. Hilgya belives in exactly the opposite.


Their viewpoints are too different to bring anything but misery to them both and their child if they attempt to become a couple for Kuzdu. And Hilgya has already shown that she isn't going to consensuate any decission about Kuzdu with anyone. And Durkon is not the kind of man to duck on responsibility. The whole thing can only end in disaster.

Ain't gonna happen.

Yes, Durkon has a problem. But that problem is not that Minrah can potentially become a love interest. His problem is that he had a son with a woman whose character is irreconciliable with him's, and who doesn't seems willing to accept any kind of compromise regarding a child Durkon feels responsible for.

Loves conquers all!



Okay, that would be a hard one, really.

I don't really know how The Giant plans to solve that one. He made a tall order, and I am a bit affraid that the resolution will provoke strong and opposed oppinions on the fanbase.

*Shocked Vaarsuvius* Oh no, what an unprecedented reaction from the forum to a character's actions.

[KorvinStarmast]

Durkon on the other hand has promised to resurrect Minrah at the first opportunity.

Just to nitpick a little bit, raise dead (5th level spell) not resurrection(7th level spell). Minrah's body is still on the floor in that room. Durkon's body needed resurrection because he'd been turned into dust/vapor/whatever when Belkar staked him ...

[zimmerwald1915]

Just to nitpick a little bit, raise dead (5th level spell) not resurrection(7th level spell). Minrah's body is still on the floor in that room. Durkon's body needed resurrection because he'd been turned into dust/vapor/whatever when Belkar staked him ...

In fact, Durkon needed a resurrection spell for the same reason that his body turned into dust when Belkar staked him: he was a vampire, and destroyed vampires can't be raised by a raise dead spell. Veldrina points it out here.

[Fyraltari]

In fact, Durkon needed a resurrection spell for the same reason that his body turned into dust when Belkar staked him: he was a vampire, and destroyed vampires can't be raised by a raise dead spell. Veldrina points it out here.

I think she meant she Raise Dead wouldn't work when cast on the still undead vampire because of the presence of Durkon*'s spirit.

[zimmerwald1915]

I think she meant she Raise Dead wouldn't work when cast on the still undead vampire because of the presence of Durkon*'s spirit.

Nah, it's pretty clear that she thinks resurrection wouldn't work on Durkon's dusted body because Durkon's body had been dusted.

[Peelee]

I think she meant she Raise Dead wouldn't work when cast on the still undead vampire because of the presence of Durkon*'s spirit.

Nope;

Raise Dead

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.

No spell can bring back a not-yet-destroyed undead. Maybe Wish, but I'm too lazy to check, ironically.

ETA: checked. It's not explicitly allowed, and it's more powerful than True Res, a 9th level spell (since even that can't bring back someone who is currently undead), so it'd be up to DM fiat. Most likely monkey-pawed to hell and back if they allowed it at all.

[Fyraltari]

Nah, it's pretty clear that she thinks resurrection wouldn't work on Durkon's dusted body because Durkon's body had been dusted.

No she says, it's because of the "Negative particle wave interference". Note that Durkon*'s mind is made of Negative Energy.

Nope;
No spell can bring back a not-yet-destroyed undead. Maybe Wish, but I'm too lazy to check, ironically.

ETA: checked. It's not explicitly allowed, and it's more powerful than True Res, a 9th level spell (since even that can't bring back someone who is currently undead), so it'd be up to DM fiat. Most likely monkey-pawed to hell and back if they allowed it at all.

What I meant was that Veldrina was saying: "No spell can bring back an undead (because NPWI)* so we'd need to kill him first, and then we'd need Resurrection, because of the ash".


*Which, I think is not in D&D rules, but is an elegant way of justifying the rule: the Negative Energy powering the undead cancels out the positive energy of your spell, so you do need to get rid of it first.

[zimmerwald1915]

No she says, it's because of the "Negative particle wave interference". Note that Durkon*'s mind is made of Negative Energy.

See, I read "she" and assumed you were referring to KevinStormrast. This is why pronouns need to go the way of the dodo. Pronouns only obscure meaning.

What I meant was that Veldrina was saying: "No spell can bring back an undead (because NPWI)* so we'd need to kill him first, and then we'd need Resurrection, because of the ash."

But raise dead can't raise any undead creatures, including those, like zombies, whose bodies do not turn to ash when they are destroyed. You need resurrection to raise any creature that has turned undead.

[Peelee]

No she says, it's because of the "Negative particle wave interference". Note that Durkon*'s mind is made of Negative Energy.

See, I read that as "and that's why Raise Undead doesn't work on destroyed unded."

See, I read "she" and assumed you were referring to KevinStormrast.

Korvin's got the male tag, though.

[Fyraltari]

See, I read "she" and assumed you were referring to KevinStormrast. This is why pronouns need to go the way of the dodo. Pronouns only obscure meaning.

KorvinStarmast has a male symbol under his avatar...

But raise dead can't raise any undead creatures, including those, like zombies, whose bodies do not turn to ash when they are destroyed. You need resurrection to raise any creature that has turned undead.

But once you've killed them a second time, they aren't undead anymore, so you can raise them like normal, can't you?

[Peelee]

But once you've killed them a second time, they aren't undead anymore, so you can raise them like normal, can't you?

They're an undead corpse, instead of a normal corpse. Gotta have Resurrection, at least.