Is book 6 about to end?

[Fyraltari]

How effective is Durkon going to be after he is resurrected? He loses one level, making him Level 13 (Class Level and Geekery thread has him currently at 14), which isn't a huge, but he loses a bunch of spell slots. He also only has the prepared spells he had left when he died, which was after using a bunch to solve the Draketooth mystery, and a fairly lengthy battle with Tarquin, Malack, and the Linear Guild. That left him with no spells above 4th Level except for Thor's Might and Summon Deva, which I guess isn't nothing, but not a huge amount of utility.

I tink Durkon has the spells Durkon#2 had left at the time of dusting, since Durkon# had a few spells in the pyramid.

[martianmister]

Maybe his mom couldn't take him for whatever reason. It was a big point in his life, so if his mom couldn't go he'd be very appreciative of Shirra.

Do you really believe that?

Also, yeah, she still took it. What's your point? It's still a loan.

My statement was She and her son already took many things from them. What's your point?

[Peelee]

My statement was She and her son already took many things from them. What's your point?

Your statement was she and her son took gifts from them, more precisely:

Presumably the one with the silver mines could pay for it, but of course it is not a valid argument, because Sigdi won't take any gifts from them.

Grey Wolf

She and her son already took many things from them. And it would be a repayment, not gift.

Sigdi most definitely does not share your views. And its her opinion, not yours, that counts.

Grey Wolf

[martianmister]

Your statement was she and her son took gifts from them, more precisely:

No. I never said that. I even said to Grey Wolf that it shouldn't be treated as a gift.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

No. I never said that. I even said to Grey Wolf that it shouldn't be treated as a gift.

Then it is even more obviously wrong, because she never has had the money to pay for it herself, and thus won't take it from her friends because she wouldn't be able to repay them.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

No. I never said that. I even said to Grey Wolf that it shouldn't be treated as a gift.

Dude, I directly quoted you. You can click on it and go straight back to your comment. You said that. And I quoted GW's response to your claiming it wouldn't be a gift. You're literally gaslighting right now (hilariously poorly, but still).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Dude, I directly quoted you. You can click on it and go straight back to your comment. You said that. And I quoted GW's response to your claiming it wouldn't be a gift. You're literally gaslighting right now (hilariously poorly, but still).

They also seem to be using a definition for "many" that I doubt I share.

Grey Wolf

[Aveline]

As for Shirra buying Durkon's shield and hammer: Sigdi may refuse gifts given to her, but that doesn't mean she would necessarily refuse gifts given to Durkon. Would she even have the right? As for the dress: Sigdi obviously intended to pay for the dress, and it took a lot of convincing before she accepted it as a gift. As for borrowing from Kandro: Sigdi obviously intended for it to be a loan, and for that matter, it's not even certain she did borrow from Kandro in the end.

So that's just one gift she's canonically accepted, and it took an amount of convincing disproportionate to its cost and significance.

As for accepting a Regeneration: it seems to me that Sigdi refuses gifts not for the sake of refusing gifts, but for the sake of not unduly burdening anyone (for Sigdi's personal sense of "undue"). As far as I'm concerned, she's already proven that if she had access to a Regeneration spell, she would insist that the material resources be used to cast Raise Dead instead.


EDIT: I had gotten the impression from #1129 that Regenerate cost diamonds, but I checked the SRD and it does not. My general point, though, is that Sigdi would feel that the efforts of casting Regenerate could be better spent elsewhere.

[woweedd]

As for Shirra buying Durkon's shield and hammer: Sigdi may refuse gifts given to her, but that doesn't mean she would necessarily refuse gifts given to Durkon. Would she even have the right? As for the dress: Sigdi obviously intended to pay for the dress, and it took a lot of convincing before she accepted it as a gift. As for borrowing from Kandro: Sigdi obviously intended for it to be a loan, and for that matter, it's not even certain she did borrow from Kandro in the end.

So that's just one gift she's canonically accepted, and it took an amount of convincing disproportionate to its cost and significance.

As for accepting a Regeneration: it seems to me that Sigdi refuses gifts not for the sake of refusing gifts, but for the sake of not unduly burdening anyone (for Sigdi's personal sense of "undue"). As far as I'm concerned, she's already proven that if she had access to a Regeneration spell, she would insist that the material resources be used to cast Raise Dead instead.

I don't think they ahve the same amterial component. Plus, i'm theorizing her regeneration as a sort of "re-payment" from Durkon, for maikng him the outstanding Dwarf he is today.

[Aveline]

I don't think they ahve the same amterial component. Plus, i'm theorizing her regeneration as a sort of "re-payment" from Durkon, for maikng him the outstanding Dwarf he is today.

They don't have the same material component; I was mistaken.

[D.One]

There's no cost, and I think she might accept a regeneration cast by her son, given how important being able to do so is for him. That said, as I've stated before, I think maybe the regeneration will be left for the epilogue after book 7, due to the Order having to leave dwarven lands ASAP to deal with Kraagor's Gate.

[Aveline]

There's no cost, and I think she might accept a regeneration cast by her son, given how important being able to do so is for him. That said, as I've stated before, I think maybe the regeneration will be left for the epilogue after book 7, due to the Order having to leave dwarven lands ASAP to deal with Kraagor's Gate.

Then I could see Sigdi eventually accepting a Regeneration as a gift from her to him.

[RatElemental]

Then I could see Sigdi eventually accepting a Regeneration as a gift from her to him.

Like I pointed out, I think she would even if she would rather not, for Durkon's sake. I do think it might make enough sense to her that it'd be 'right' to accept the gift of her arm back from her son, the only thing left of the man she lost her arm for (beard lock notwithstanding).

[Grey Watcher]

It, sadly, does not fit the rock and roll theme we have going, but I have to share this one:

Will No One Deliver Me from This Turbulent Priest?

[Peelee]

It, sadly, does not fit the rock and roll theme we have going, but I have to share this one:

Will No One Deliver Me from This Turbulent Priest?

Ooooh, I like that one.

Also, it will fit the rock & roll theme once my Chuck Berry tribute band shoehorn that into our nu-retro rearrangement of Maybelline. Rock's really changed...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Will No One Deliver Me from This Turbulent Priest?

"Odin's Throne is Well Worth a Mass"

[Gluteus_Maximus]

I think, given everything on this thread, "The High Way To Hel" is most likely.

[nolongeralurker]

I don't think Shirra has a son.
Edit: Oh, you meant Sigdi and her son.

For the record, Shirra actually has two sons.

(And since I'm here: I agree with those who think Durkon will regenerate Sigdi's arm (maybe paid for by the Dinner Party as people have said before), and that the Order will attend this evening's Dinner, it being Wednesday. Agree that we'll see Team Evil once more because something changes for them, but I don't think it'll be finding Kraagor's Gate. To me it seems too soon for that, though I suppose it's possible.)

[Aveline]

Maybe Durkon will be resurrected at the dinner party. The dwarf who repeated Odin's prophecy to the Order could lead them to Sigdi, and it could be Sigdi who convinces Hilgya to resurrect him.

Or a plot-critical scene about some important vote could force his resurrection in the wee hours of Wednesday morning.

[Kish]

(And since I'm here: I agree with those who think Durkon will regenerate Sigdi's arm (maybe paid for by the Dinner Party as people have said before)

I am quite certain Durkon will not be charging anyone to cast Regenerate on his mother's arm.

[goodpeople25]

I am quite certain Durkon will not be charging anyone to cast Regenerate on his mother's arm.

Well sure a random encounter or the like at that point in the story is unlikely but cmon it could happen. It's certainly more likely then Durkon demanding payment to cast Regenerate for his mom or something like that.

[Aveline]

Now that I know Regenerate has no material cost, I can think of just one way Sigdi refuses: by telling Durkon he needs to keep all of his spell slots for when he saves the world.

Edit: Unless she's dead. :(

[Kish]

It strikes me as very unlikely that anyone will treat "you can't use one of your seventh-level spell slots today" as a compelling argument.

Greg used Regenerate casually to fix a broken bone.

[Aveline]

It strikes me as very unlikely that anyone will treat "you can't use one of your seventh-level spell slots today" as a compelling argument.

Greg used Regenerate casually to fix a broken bone.

It's going to be a very big day, isn't it? Don't they plan on immediately departing for Kraagor's Tomb? If "Durkon won't be able to count on preparing spells again before needing them" is required for this outcome, well, I still find that contrivance believable.

[Kish]

Did the Order get some means of instantaneous transport between "using the Mechane to get here" and now, somehow?

Even if they did, I'll venture that "they're going to plan to go into the final battle with Xykon with multiple members of the Order Constitution drained and Vaarsuvius level drained, even if they had some way of getting there instantly" is a big no.

[Aveline]

I haven't seen serious consequences for constitution damage or negative levels in a very long time, exept for Belkar's anemia, which I presumed would work itself out in about a day. Does it not work that way?

[Kish]

It does not. Constitution drain is permanent unless someone casts Restoration on you. Negative levels require a Fortitude save per negative level (with the penalty imposed by however many negative levels you have, and a reduced Fortitude save if you have less Constitution than you did yesterday) after 24 hours; for each Fortitude save you fail, you lose an actual experience level, unless someone casts Restoration on you before 24 hours are up (thus removing all the negative levels).

In other words, everyone in the Order, except for Durkon, needs Restoration spells, and the consequences for not getting them would be dire.

Also, you've exactly reversed what you're arguing, from "there's no time for Durkon to get his spell back" to "their current penalties will work themselves out in about a day so they'll just ignore them." Know what works itself out in a day? Having used a seventh-level spell slot.

[Aveline]

It does not. Constitution drain is permanent unless someone casts Restoration on you. Negative levels require a Fortitude save per negative level (with the penalty imposed by however many negative levels you have, and a reduced Fortitude save if you have less Constitution than you did yesterday) after 24 hours; for each Fortitude save you have, you lose an actual experience level, unless someone casts Restoration on you before 24 hours are up (thus removing all the negative levels).

In other words, everyone in the Order, except for Durkon, needs Restoration spells, and the consequences for not getting them would be dire.

Also, you've exactly reversed what you're arguing, from "there's no time for Durkon to get his spell back" to "their current penalties will work themselves out in about a day so they'll just ignore them." Know what works itself out in a day? Having used a seventh-level spell slot.

Okay, I believe you about the Order desperately needing heals. But Hilgya could do that herself. If Durkon is resurrected after the time he would prepare spells - which is possible - would he be able to have spells at all that day? Would he have whatever he had left after fighting Malack?

From the length of time they've been travelling, Kraagor's Tomb just doesn't seem that far out. We all know the Mechane flies at inconsistent speeds, and the Order isn't able to set the schedule on when Xykon needs thwarting. I think they could still have to confront Xykon before the next sunrise, Roy could raise the possibility in Sigdi's presence, and Sigdi could decline because her well-being is irrelevant to their battles.

And for the record, when I said "about a day", I was imagining a gradual process over the same day, before the morning comes. Real live humans replenish their blood just fine as long as they don't lose too much.

[Kish]

Okay, I believe you about the Order desperately needing heals. But Hilgya could do that herself. If Durkon is resurrected after the time he would prepare spells - which is possible - would he be able to have spells at all that day? Would he have whatever he had left after fighting Malack?

From the length of time they've been travelling, Kraagor's Tomb just doesn't seem that far out.

The Order wasn't flying to Kraagor's Tomb.

Here.

A thousand gold says the Order will not confront Xykon between Greg being destroyed and the immediately following dawn, nor will they act in any way based on expectations that they will.

[Aveline]

The Order wasn't flying to Kraagor's Tomb.

Please forgive me if I'm forgetting something critical, but... is that a fact? Their teleportation orb got smashed, they need a plan B, the Mechane is handy, and the crew is amicable.

Here.

A thousand gold says the Order will not confront Xykon between Greg being destroyed and the immediately following dawn, nor will they act in any way based on expectations that they will.

It could be before the second dawn if Durkon isn't resurrected before the daily deadline for preparing spells, barring a rule that gives him spells outright.

No bet either way. I'm only arguing for the logistical plausibility of this chain of events. The possibilities are so wide because we happen to not know what time it is in-comic.