Hexblade Glaivelock AFTER level 12?

[Fryy]

I'm planning to take Warlock (Hexblade, Blade Pact) up to level 12 for Lifedrinker. This is for the Dungeon of the Mad Mage and the DM says we may get close to level 20 by the end.

I am trying to decide what to do after level 12... (1) continue as full Warlock or (2) multi-class.

I am looking to give this character more of an Eldritch Knight feel than a caster/Eldritch-Blaster. I like the utility and defensiveness of the EK. The obvious downside continuing with full Warlock is the low # of spell slots. The upside is having those high level spells (mystic arcanum).

BTW... Paladin multi-class is out as the STR score is too low. Swashbuckler is also out as we already have a multi-class Hexblade/Swashbuckler so I don't to copy his niche.

Expected Stats/Feats/Invocations/Weapon at level 12:
Stats: Str 8, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Chr 20
Feats: Elven Accuracy (Chr +1), Chr +2, Resilient Con
Invocations: Improved Pact Weapon, Thirsting Blade, Lifedrinker, Eldritch Smite, Agonizing Blast, 1 more TBD...
Weapon: Glaive

[Man_Over_Game]

A bit of a hard choice, really. You do have a few you can use, though.

Getting Devil's Sight is always a great choice for a melee Warlock, as you can cast Darkness on your weapon and easily grant yourself Elven Accuracy in melee combat.

For the multiclassing, you don't have too many options to use, honestly. Your best bets are going to be:

Grabbing 1 level into Sorcerer. Sorcerer has a large number of spells designed for melee combat. You can combine the Spell Sniper feat with level 2 into Sorcerer and have some great tricks utilizing the Sword spells, like Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade.

Going several levels into Bard is an option. Swords Bard has the means to increase your AC, and with a +5 Charisma, you can afford to do so often. If you happen to hit level 5 in Bard, make sure to swap out the Thirsting Blade invocation from Warlock since it doesn't stack with Extra Attack.

Lastly, Samurai Fighter has some options. Turn that Advantage into 3d20 with an enhanced crit range and go to town.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Three levels of Lore Bard would give you four first-level slots for Shield, plus a pair of seconds for various other things. Presuming you go to 20, that means you'd hit 17 for Hexblade and still get your 9th level Mystic Arcanum.

Lore Bard also gives you two skill proficiencies, two skills for Expertise, plus Cutting Words to help out your teammates on a reaction.

[Blood of Gaea]

If stuff like Crown of Stars, Etherealness, Forcecage, Plane Shift, Demiplane, Glibness, and Foresight don't interest you, there's no huge reason to stay Warlock. You're basically just missing out on one spell slot per short rest and a couple invocations.

Battlemaster Fighter or Swashbuckler Rogue would probably be your best multiclass options. Depending on if you value expertise and sneak attack or maneuvers more for your PC.

In either case, I'd go ahead and just take the final 8 levels in it.

If you go the Battlemaster route, you should probably make sure to leave a level of Warlock till after 5th level in Fighter, so you can swap out of Thirsting Blade.

[BarneyBent]

Some DMs are ok with replacing STR with DEX for Paladin multiclasses. Have you asked?

[Keravath]

Are you planning to pickup polearm master and great weapon master?

With these two feats you can do more damage than agonizing-eldritch blast with your glaive. Without them, your damage falls behind and you actually will do more damage with eldritch blast.

e.g. 3x(d10+5)=31.5 vs 2x(d10+10)=31

Add in polearm master and it becomes 2x(d10+10) + d4+10 = 43.5
Add in advantage from shadows of moil and using great weapon master it becomes ... 2x(d10+20) + d4+20 = 74

As for your dilemma .. either warlock 20 will give you ASI at 16 and 19 or sorcerer 8 which gives ASI at 16 and 20. However, the build would actually work until you reach level 20.

[Fryy]

Are you planning to pickup polearm master and great weapon master?

With these two feats you can do more damage than agonizing-eldritch blast with your glaive. Without them, your damage falls behind and you actually will do more damage with eldritch blast.

e.g. 3x(d10+5)=31.5 vs 2x(d10+10)=31

Add in polearm master and it becomes 2x(d10+10) + d4+10 = 43.5
Add in advantage from shadows of moil and using great weapon master it becomes ... 2x(d10+20) + d4+20 = 74

As for your dilemma .. either warlock 20 will give you ASI at 16 and 19 or sorcerer 8 which gives ASI at 16 and 20. However, the build would actually work until you reach level 20.

Yes, I guess that is the main dilemma then. I am thinking about picking up polearm master and/or great weapon master to keep the Fighter/Knight thing respectable. And ideally to have no delay to Feats/ASI's. I am not sure which of PAM or GWM to take first (at level 16). So, I guess my ideal multi-classing would be either (1) no multi-class with full Feats/ASI's lots of invocations and mystic arcanum, (2) a 1-level dip into Sorcerer or Bard for 3 1st level slots for Shield, Absorb Elements, Healing Word, etc., (3) a 4 or 8 level dip into another class... to keep full Feats/ASI's.

If stuff like Crown of Stars, Etherealness, Forcecage, Plane Shift, Demiplane, Glibness, and Foresight don't interest you, there's no huge reason to stay Warlock. You're basically just missing out on one spell slot per short rest and a couple invocations.

Battlemaster Fighter or Swashbuckler Rogue would probably be your best multiclass options. Depending on if you value expertise and sneak attack or maneuvers more for your PC.

In either case, I'd go ahead and just take the final 8 levels in it.

If you go the Battlemaster route, you should probably make sure to leave a level of Warlock till after 5th level in Fighter, so you can swap out of Thirsting Blade.

Yes, it's a tradeoff between having more high-level spells with no ASI/Feat delay... vs. having some low level slots for Shield, Absorb Elements, etc.

Some DMs are ok with replacing STR with DEX for Paladin multiclasses. Have you asked?

It's AL rules, so that would not be ok at this point.

A bit of a hard choice, really. You do have a few you can use, though.

Getting Devil's Sight is always a great choice for a melee Warlock, as you can cast Darkness on your weapon and easily grant yourself Elven Accuracy in melee combat.

For the multiclassing, you don't have too many options to use, honestly. Your best bets are going to be:

Grabbing 1 level into Sorcerer. Sorcerer has a large number of spells designed for melee combat. You can combine the Spell Sniper feat with level 2 into Sorcerer and have some great tricks utilizing the Sword spells, like Booming Blade or Greenflame Blade.

Going several levels into Bard is an option. Swords Bard has the means to increase your AC, and with a +5 Charisma, you can afford to do so often. If you happen to hit level 5 in Bard, make sure to swap out the Thirsting Blade invocation from Warlock since it doesn't stack with Extra Attack.

Lastly, Samurai Fighter has some options. Turn that Advantage into 3d20 with an enhanced crit range and go to town.

Yes, the extra low-level spell slots from Sorcerer or Bard adds a lot of slots for a Warlock.

Three levels of Lore Bard would give you four first-level slots for Shield, plus a pair of seconds for various other things. Presuming you go to 20, that means you'd hit 17 for Hexblade and still get your 9th level Mystic Arcanum.

Lore Bard also gives you two skill proficiencies, two skills for Expertise, plus Cutting Words to help out your teammates on a reaction.

Jack of All Trades is very appealing. However, I like the Sorcerer spell list better than the Bard spell list.

Thanks for all your advice. I am down to choosing either 20 levels Warlock or 12Warlock/8Sorcerer. I am leaning towards 12War/8Sor for the gish/EK feel, leaving the world-breaking (levels 7-9) spells for someone else, and definitely taking PAM and GWM (not really sure which to take first).
For my TBD invocation... I am thinking either Shroud of Shadow or Relentless Hex... probably Shroud because of Elven Accuracy fun surprises.

[Keravath]

I built my AL hexblade glaivelock in the reverse order from you.

I went variant human and took polearm master to start. GWM at level 4. Resilient con planned at level 8, cha at 12 and 16 ... last feat could be lucky or whatever looks good.

The advantage of that approach is that it frontloaded the melee playstyle. At 5th level, using darkness and devils sight, I can potentially hit for 2(d10+13) + d4 + 13 (with a +3 stat and GWM working due to advantage from the vision tricks). This is an average 52.5 damage at level 5 if it all hits which is very respectable at that level ... I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

[Fryy]

I built my AL hexblade glaivelock in the reverse order from you.

I went variant human and took polearm master to start. GWM at level 4. Resilient con planned at level 8, cha at 12 and 16 ... last feat could be lucky or whatever looks good.

The advantage of that approach is that it frontloaded the melee playstyle. At 5th level, using darkness and devils sight, I can potentially hit for 2(d10+13) + d4 + 13 (with a +3 stat and GWM working due to advantage from the vision tricks). This is an average 52.5 damage at level 5 if it all hits which is very respectable at that level ... I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

My level 4 Feat is locked in with Elven Accuracy (Cha), but levels 8 and above are still upcoming. So, i could go either
Original: 8 Cha +2, 12 Res Con, 16 PAM, and 19/20 GWM, or something like...
Revised: 8 PAM, 12 Res Con, 16 GWM, and 19/20 Cha +2

I'll probably skip Darkness/Devil's Sight unless I go Shadow Sorcerer for the Christopher Nolan Dark Knight feel.

[Fryy]

Rules Question... I forget... by RAW (AL play) can you use sorcerer slots to power Eldritch Smite?

[Blood of Gaea]

Rules Question... I forget... by RAW (AL play) can you use sorcerer slots to power Eldritch Smite?

No, only Warlock slots.

[Vogie]

You could also pick Cavalier Fighter - In addition to fighting Style and Action surge, you gain the ability to mark the creature you're attacking and giving them disadvantage towards anyone other than you. It's a weaker version of the AG Barb's level 3 ability, but doesn't require rage or the 13 in Str.

If you go past 3 levels, you get an additional ASI/Feat at fighter 6, and get Warding Maneuver at fighter 7. If you don't want the third ASI at fighter 8, you can also get another level of warlock in for your 7th level Mystic Arcanum, and swapping Thirsting Blade with a different invocation as you'll get Extra attack for free.

[Mikal]

I prefer Blades Bards and Battlemaster fighters for a Hexblade after level 12.
Both of them provide maneuvers, which will enhance your attacks without using any existing resources or options, and depending on how you do the levels you can drop thirsting blade to pick up extra attack normally (albeit at very high level, so I generally don't).

My personal progression is
Hexblade 12
Fighter 4 (Battlemaster)
Bard 4 (Blade)

And almost all the resources for both classes are short rest reusable.

[Mimersbrønd]

If the higher levels of warlock doesnt interest you, then i suggest Fighter for the rest of your levels. It's the safest bet for optimization.

- Action Surge
- 3 ASI's for PAM and GWM, I think PAM is best first. (assuming you get to level 20, otherwise its the only class where you can get 2 ASI fastest at 4th and 6th level fighter, your 16 and 18 character level).
- Extra Attack, meaning you wont need Thirsting Blade, so you have one invocation to swap for something else when you get that 5th level fighter.
- If you take Eldritch Knight, then you get Absorb Elements (which imo is the best spell for higher level gish, i love this spell so much) and some extra 1st level spell slots for Shield.

[CTurbo]

Battlemaster Fighter would be good to spam Riposte


But I'd go Sorcerer. Stone Sorcerer would be really interesting. It gives you a nice teleport + free attack + bonus damage reaction ability all while offering a little protection to a buddy. Giant Soul Sorcerer is interesting too. Especially Frost as it makes Armor of Agathys even better than normal.

[Fryy]

Battlemaster Fighter would be good to spam Riposte


But I'd go Sorcerer. Stone Sorcerer would be really interesting. It gives you a nice teleport + free attack + bonus damage reaction ability all while offering a little protection to a buddy. Giant Soul Sorcerer is interesting too. Especially Frost as it makes Armor of Agathys even better than normal.

Which Sorcerer bloodline would you choose if you were limited to PBH +XGtE?

[CTurbo]

Which Sorcerer bloodline would you choose if you were limited to PBH +XGtE?

Probably Shadow

[Vogie]

A first-level sorcerer dip is akin to 1 invocation

• Shadow gives you (an albeit less powerful) Devil's Sight
• Draconic gives you Armor of Shadows
• Divine gives you Thief of Five Fates (or other spells, based on your alignment)

Since you have Elven Accuracy already, you could probably do well with Wild Magic, ironically. Since Wild Magic Surge only triggers on Sorcerer spells, rather than all spells, you will have real control over when you get hit with that. For example, only when you want to reuse Tides of Chaos.

Personally, I've always wanted to get one of the at-will spells invocations and mix it with Storm Sorcery's Tempestuous Magic. Fwoosh! It actually makes Ascendant Step something more than just "Can't Touch This"

[PastorofMuppets]

Just out of curiosity what book is a hexblade detailed in? Looking through the forums here it seems to be the choice of nearly every warlock player and I’m not sure where to find it to look at. Is it that much more powerful than a player handbook based warlock or is there some RP hook that everyone enjoys about it?

[Man_Over_Game]

Just out of curiosity what book is a hexblade detailed in? Looking through the forums here it seems to be the choice of nearly every warlock player and I’m not sure where to find it to look at. Is it that much more powerful than a player handbook based warlock or is there some RP hook that everyone enjoys about it?

It's in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.

It's good because:

It gives you the Shield spell, important for melee casters.
It grants you melee proficiencies and medium armor proficiency.
It gives you the option to make every attack with your weapon to use Charisma instead of Dexterity or Strength.
It gives you the option to curse a target for a minute, causing all of your attacks against that target to deal extra damage, crit on a 19/20, and heals you if you kill them.
And all of this at level 1.

So...yeah. If a Warlock wants to go melee, they have to go Hexblade. And it also cheeses out a lot of builds for Paladins, so often you'll see some simple builds that involve 1-2 levels of Hexblade.

I don't like it. My personal fix was to move everything weapon-oriented that level 1 Hexblade provides (proficiencies, Charisma attacking) onto Pact Weapon, and changing around the level 1 features of Hexblade to revolve around Curses, which is what the rest of the subclass does after level 1.

[Vogie]

Just out of curiosity what book is a hexblade detailed in? Looking through the forums here it seems to be the choice of nearly every warlock player and I’m not sure where to find it to look at. Is it that much more powerful than a player handbook based warlock or is there some RP hook that everyone enjoys about it?

It's in XGtE, but not necessarily the best for every Blade warlock. On certain pairings, such as with Sorcerer, Bard, or Paladin, it's really good.

However, if you are multiclassed with a class that:

• Already has medium or better armor, and shields
• Has access to the shield spell

Then the main benefit is going to be an the 1x/rest Curse.

So, for example, if a Barbarian was dipping warlock, they wouldn't want to use hexblade. They already have better armor, already use shields, can't use the shield spell (would likely be using their spell slots for smiting purposes only)... Hex warrior wouldn't work for them because Hex Warrior's Charisma substitution is a nonbo with the benefits of Rage. The only reason they might is if they were a crit-fishing build and want that on-demand expanded crit range over things like a Sentinel Raven or the Fiendlock's THP generation

This would be similar for something like a Champion fighter, who already has armor and an expanded crit range, or a Rogue, who likely won't want to spend yet another bonus action. Hex can at least move around from target to target

Other classes, like Fighter or Rogue, will already have substantial Strength or Dex scores, the Hex Warrior ability is almost useless.

That being said, it's an important subclass for single-classed Warlocks, because of everything MOG said. Prior to Hexblade's printing, Bladelocks frequently started with a level in Paladin or Fighter for access to armor & shields.

[Mikal]

So...yeah. If a Warlock wants to go melee, they have to go Hexblade. And it also cheeses out a lot of builds for Paladins, so often you'll see some simple builds that involve 1-2 levels of Hexblade.

I don't like it. My personal fix was to move everything weapon-oriented that level 1 Hexblade provides (proficiencies, Charisma attacking) onto Pact Weapon, and changing around the level 1 features of Hexblade to revolve around Curses, which is what the rest of the subclass does after level 1.

They don't HAVE to. Tomelock still does melee well enough with Shillelagh and a quarterstaff.
Hexblades just do it best.