Did Hilgya ever really want to kill Durkon?

[CJG]

On one hand, she outright said that she wanted him dead. On the other she came with a diamond and some prepared Rez/raise dead spells prepared. I think the lady is protesting quite a bit.

Also, considering that she felt smothered by a decent (if not daft) dwarf husband, I don’t think Durkon is gonna win any points talking about marriage and “leading her to the side of good”

[martianmister]

Probably not.

[hamishspence]

On one hand, she outright said that she wanted him dead. On the other she came with a diamond and some prepared Rez/raise dead spells prepared.

Maybe those were originally for Kudzu, in case he got killed but she didn't?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

On the other she came with a diamond and some prepared Rez/raise dead spells prepared.

And a baby strapped to her chest. How do you know she didn't prepare the spell in case her stupidity got Kudzu killed?

ETA: OK, how did I miss hamishspence post?

Grey Wolf

[CJG]

Maybe those were originally for Kudzu, in case he got killed but she didn't?

I thought of that first, but she was so convinced that Little K wouldn’t get hurt that I wondered if she even thought she was that fallable? Maybe.

[denthor]

She wanted to kill him herself. Got beat by the Belkster. So she is probably under some sort of orders from Loki to help.

Remember she said that Loki sent her.

[hamishspence]

When she first turns up:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1105.html

it does seem like she wanted Durkon dead permanently.

However, if the whole "world is about to be destroyed unless our quest succeeds" thing has come out in conversation, across the many strips since then, she might have changed her mind about the "permanent" bit.

[CJG]

When she first turns up:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1105.html

it does seem like she wanted Durkon dead permanently.

However, if the whole "world is about to be destroyed unless our quest succeeds" thing has come out in conversation, across the many strips since then, she might have changed her mind about the "permanent" bit.

See though, I’m wondering if her spell prep shows that she never intended for him to remain properly dead from the start?

The idea that at least one of those might have been for Kudzu makes sense, but two in one day?

I mean who knows, Kudzu might be on his 3rd body by now, I just think it’s an interesting detail!

[martianmister]

If she really care about keeping Kudzu alive, she wouldn't use him as a living shield.

[Kish]

I confess, I would not have predicted that Hilgya would kill (living) Durkon, immediately followed by someone posting a thread titled, "Did Hilgya ever really want to kill Durkon?"

[martianmister]

I confess, I would not have predicted that Hilgya would kill (living) Durkon, immediately followed by someone posting a thread titled, "Did Hilgya ever really want to kill Durkon?"

Reality is unrealistic.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I confess, I would not have predicted that Hilgya would kill (living) Durkon, immediately followed by someone posting a thread titled, "Did Hilgya ever really want to kill Durkon?"

Well, you know how sometimes, enormously damaging spells just escape you. Performance anxiety, maybe. There is a pill for that. Maybe she's just power incontinent.

Grey Wolf

[Dr.Zero]

Killing someone, in our world, means that he dies and stays dead.
In real world terms, then no, Hilgya didn't want to kill Durkon.
Apparently she only wanted to gift him of a quick visit to another plane without using the plane shift spell.

[CJG]

I confess, I would not have predicted that Hilgya would kill (living) Durkon, immediately followed by someone posting a thread titled, "Did Hilgya ever really want to kill Durkon?"

Haha! I guess I differentiate between dead and permentaly dead?
I don’t really consider it wanting to kill the person if you have the means to bring them back right away.

[KorvinStarmast]

If she is to be considered a reliable witness (which based on the early strips and her version of events versus what else we have seen is a contested point) then she surely had that in mind on her meeting the order for the second time.

However, if she was (as she seems to do) engaging in a bit of exaggeration or hyperbole, then maybe not?

[Jasdoif]

I don’t really consider it wanting to kill the person if you have the means to bring them back right away.

That's...awfully twisted. I'd think having the "but I can undo it if I want!" excuse would make it easier to self-justify acting on wanting to kill the person, not obviate wanting to kill them in the first place.

[CJG]

That's...awfully twisted. I'd think having the "but I can undo it if I want!" excuse would make it easier to self-justify acting on wanting to kill the person, not obviate wanting to kill them in the first place.

You are arguing over semantics. I’m merely defining what I meant in my post as “killing” and what I thought H originally meant by it.

[Synesthesy]

However, I don't think that the resurrection spells are for Kuzdu. Remember that children not always come back, or Roy would have a little brother more back at home... I believe that Hilgya is so confident that she doesn't think that Kuzdu can be harmed at all.

And we don't know if Hilgya really wanted to kill Durkon or not, maybe she simply thought that he had more hit point. I don't know how powerfull is the spell, and how powerfull should be a cleric of Durkon's level.

[Jasdoif]

You are arguing over semantics.

Yes; I tend to do that when people's words make no sense to me.

[Particle_Man]

Ockham's Razor: She really wanted to kill Durkon.

Evidence: 1) She said she wanted to kill Durkon. 2) She killed Durkon.

[hroþila]

I think it's possible that Hilgya simply didn't know where she could safely* store her filthy lucre, so she brought it all, some of it converted into diamonds for convenience.

*Considering her, eh, warped sense of what's safe and what isn't.

[Emanick]

One point that hasn't been made yet, at least in this thread, is that one Flame Strike would be really, really unlikely to kill a cleric of Durkon's level, and that Hilgya would probably know that. I think she probably did want to kill him, but it's possible that she only lashed out in anger without actually intending to strike him dead, merely cause him severe pain.

Edit: Okay, Synesthesy seems to have raised a similar point. So I'm not as original as I thought. Who knew.

[CJG]

Ockham's Razor: She really wanted to kill Durkon.

Evidence: 1) She said she wanted to kill Durkon. 2) She killed Durkon.

This is fair.

[CJG]

I think it's possible that Hilgya simply didn't know where she could safely* store her filthy lucre, so she brought it all, some of it converted into diamonds for convenience.

*Considering her, eh, warped sense of what's safe and what isn't.

True, she does seem like the “sock full of nickels” type!

[CJG]

One point that hasn't been made yet, at least in this thread, is that one Flame Strike would be really, really unlikely to kill a cleric of Durkon's level, and that Hilgya would probably know that. I think she probably did want to kill him, but it's possible that she only lashed out in anger without actually intending to strike him dead, merely cause him severe pain.

Edit: Okay, Synesthesy seems to have raised a similar point. So I'm not as original as I thought. Who knew.

I’m not familiar enough with the relative strengths of spells to even know to ask!
She doesn’t seem too put out about it at least.

[Emanick]

I’m not familiar enough with the relative strengths of spells to even know to ask!
She doesn’t seem too put out about it at least.

Yeah, that's part of why I don't actually think she was aiming for a nonlethal strike, even though I think that's a possibility. We can safely say, at least, that Hilgya doesn't seem to mind the fact that she killed Durkon.

My assessment of Hilgya's mental state - which is pure guesswork, not some sort of theory I can rigorously defend - is that her primary motive all along was to hurt Durkon, badly, for what he did to her. Her desire to hurt him was so strong that merely causing him physical pain wasn't enough- she wanted to physically murder him. But, being a cleric, she knew that killing someone is not the same thing as making them permanently dead, and she didn't hate him badly enough that she necessarily wanted him permanently banished from the world. She may not have wanted to resurrect him, per se, but her actual goal was being able to violently vent her rage on him, not depriving him of life permanently. Like most of her desires, it was centered around her rather than anyone else - she cared more about what she got to do to Durkon than about what happened to him in the wake of her punishment.

So yes, she did want to kill Durkon. That may not mean, however, that she wanted Durkon dead, permanently. She may not have cared about that.

[Ruck]

Ockham's Razor: She really wanted to kill Durkon.

Evidence: 1) She said she wanted to kill Durkon. 2) She killed Durkon.

Okay, but what if... *2000-word post of a convoluted theory that makes a vast number of assumptions, mis-remembers the comic's history, and interprets D&D rules incorrectly*

I’m not familiar enough with the relative strengths of spells to even know to ask!
She doesn’t seem too put out about it at least.

Double- (and in this case triple-)posting is against forum rules; edit your posts together into one post next time.

[Particle_Man]

I do think she epitomizes the CN planar thought "Nobody tells me what to do!"

[Jasdoif]

So yes, she did want to kill Durkon. That may not mean, however, that she wanted Durkon dead, permanently. She may not have cared about that.

Her choice of flame strike instead of harm (which can't kill on its own) does suggest Durkon continuing to live wasn't a priority to her, I agree.

[Ruck]

I do think she epitomizes the CN planar thought "Nobody tells me what to do!"

Yeah, absolutely.

So yes, she did want to kill Durkon. That may not mean, however, that she wanted Durkon dead, permanently. She may not have cared about that.

In her first strip upon returning she says she's there to murder Durkon Thundershield. She then does so in the most recent strip.

If anything, I think it's possible her time spent with the Order + Durkon's speech made it so that she was willing to bring him back; I don't see any reason she wouldn't have been content to leave him dead.