Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

[Gnoman]

The funniest part of that thread /forum is the autocensor of "sh*t" and "f*ck" to "poo poo" and "gently caress"

Makes really fun conversations.

Those only show up if you don't have an account. It is not uncommon for people who just bought an account to get mocked for actually typing those, thinking it was some sort of forum rule.

[Rodin]

Ah, that sheds some light on the context of that joke. All the time, I thought this was about massive steel girders and wondered why they would get damaged from redoing the bathroom ...

Yeah, this was the big headscratcher I had too. When I picture an I-beam, I picture the ones that someone like Bugs Bunny would sleepwalk onto at a construction site. I didn't realize that you could have small wooden I-beams that go under the floorboards of your house.

[Kato]

I'm not sure if Jeph has moved in the last decade or so but in my experience the owner would always point out 'there are ten other people interested in the property' which is why Brun's eagerness to sign for a good place makes sense to me.

[John Cribati]

The fact that someone would need to take up the tiny room might cut the list of potential renters in half. It just so happens that Brun likes the tiny space.

[Wraith]

What is it with Jeph and pale blue walls?

Too bad that the landlady isn't in a polyamorous relationship with an interior decorator as well as a construction merchant, otherwise they could have told her that you're supposed to make your property look warm and inviting, not cold and dank. She couldn't have known that Brun is, apparently, part cave-troll before she came for a viewing....

[John Cribati]

This room used to be a home office, remember? Guess the previous tenant needed to be depressed while they worked.

[Wraith]

Eh, that makes sense I guess. I've moved into places far worse than just "painted a dull colour" so I'm hardly the one to be offering advice on the subject.

[Kato]

The fact that someone would need to take up the tiny room might cut the list of potential renters in half.

Are you suggesting realtors are honest? Like, ever?

This room used to be a home office, remember? Guess the previous tenant needed to be depressed while they worked.

Or liked things simple / without distractions?

[John Cribati]

Virtually everyone who's interested in renting an apartment will actually go into the apartment to take a look, so it's kind of hard to lie about one room being a good deal smaller than the other without resorting to Disney Sit-Com level shenanigans.

[Kato]

Virtually everyone who's interested in renting an apartment will actually go into the apartment to take a look, so it's kind of hard to lie about one room being a good deal smaller than the other without resorting to Disney Sit-Com level shenanigans.

No, I mean about the number of people interested. Because creating fictional demand gives you a better position when haggling over the price. I mean, it clearly doesn't apply to all realtors but the old 'I have ten people who would pay 110% but I LIKE you, so you should sign now' line has probably been uttered by every fictional realtor ever.

[John Cribati]

If it's a company, they probably lie a lot. If it's just a person who happens to own the building and has to manage it themselves, and is likely going to physically show up every so often (like my landlord does), they tend to at least try and be more personable, if only because having to deal with tenants who hate them is just another stressor on top of whatever else they have going on.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'd rather have that blue color than the damn "white on white on white" that so many places are decorated with. UGH. I hate white walls, and then they add on white trim, and white counters or cabinets, and a near-white carpet sometimes... UGH UGH UGH.

[Keltest]

Come on Brun, your friend is moving out of her apartment for you. The least you could do is follow her lead when she says "we need to think about it."

Also, this place is entirely too quiet. Given what we have seen of AIs, I refuse to believe that the ground floor will not become a source of excitement.

[Wraith]

No, I mean about the number of people interested. Because creating fictional demand gives you a better position when haggling over the price. I mean, it clearly doesn't apply to all realtors but the old 'I have ten people who would pay 110% but I LIKE you, so you should sign now' line has probably been uttered by every fictional realtor ever.

This is the QC-verse, where people just move into new apartments whenever they want. All of the prices are manageable, all of the locations are at least pleasant, and no-one ever needs to see more than one place before they decide on somewhere to live, for which they can just pay their deposit for it and then move in whenever they like. Paperwork? Credit checks? What are those ridiculous sounding things!?

That being said, you're right about just how passive this landlady seems to be - even as a well-meaning warning, it wouldn't be unexpected for her to mention that she has other people waiting to see the apartment so Brun and Renee shouldn't spend too long on making their decision.

I'm wary of dipping my foot back into a discussion about Jeph's inclusion policies after the last few pages, but if I had one criticism to make of them which I think might be plausible, is that Jeph tends to be very shy about portraying non-binary characters as anything other than 'nice'.
All of his non-binary characters are polite, friendly, pleasant people and I can't think of any that display any kind of unwanted character traits, with the exception of things like Dora's neuroses which has been extensively justified by her relationship with her family and especially her brother.

The best I could come up with was Tai's ex-girlfriend who smirked - if you can believe the nerve of that! - when she was introduced to Dora, and she existed for all of 3 panels, ever. That or Faye's sister... Hannah? Who is portrayed as being so naive and air-headed that as much pain she causes, it's all just wacky hijinks for which she is soon forgiven.

I don't know what the correct term would be - it used to be "positive discrimination", meaning to give preferential treatment to a perceived minority and 'overcompensating' for their previous hardships - but I feel that Jeph could be guilty of that a lot of time. His non-binary characters are all pleasant and cooperative and tolerant of quirkiness and so on... Which makes them sometimes feel a lot more shallow than his straight characters, who are allowed to be *******s from time to time and reap the rewards and punishments thereof. Kind of what beelzebub was talking about - their biggest defining characteristic is that they are non-binary - we're all down with that, but what else makes them interesting?

I'd rather have that blue color than the damn "white on white on white" that so many places are decorated with. UGH. I hate white walls, and then they add on white trim, and white counters or cabinets, and a near-white carpet sometimes... UGH UGH UGH.

The first room we saw had the right idea - off-white makes the place bright and inviting and the yellow-ish colour is warm, but it's also pale enough to paint over without being stark and sterile like you suggest.

Grey... not so much.

Also, this place is entirely too quiet. Given what we have seen of AIs, I refuse to believe that the ground floor will not become a source of excitement.

Indeed. It could be the ED209-bot stomping around. Or Punchbot, smashing his way through the place.
...Or it's probably Melon, because of course it would be.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'm wary of dipping my foot back into a discussion about Jeph's inclusion policies after the last few pages, but if I had one criticism to make of them which I think might be plausible, is that Jeph tends to be very shy about portraying non-binary characters as anything other than 'nice'.
All of his non-binary characters are polite, friendly, pleasant people and I can't think of any that display any kind of unwanted character traits, with the exception of things like Dora's neuroses which has been extensively justified by her relationship with her family and especially her brother.

Non-binary is probably not the term you were thinking of. There is precisely one non-binary character in the comic that we know of, which is Taffy. All of the other characters confirm to the gender binary, even if they're transgender like Claire is.

If you mean "non-cishet", that's a different matter, but...

[Wraith]

If you mean "non-cishet", that's a different matter, but...

Yes, that is the term I meant, thank you for clarifying.

[Willie the Duck]

I'm not sure if Jeph has moved in the last decade or so but in my experience the owner would always point out 'there are ten other people interested in the property' which is why Brun's eagerness to sign for a good place makes sense to me.

Small college town in Massachusetts (not at a term-break, no less, so few/no students moving in or out) might be a different rental dynamic than most of us are used to any more.

What is it with Jeph and pale blue walls?

I suspect he's thinking more about the comic art than apartment realism. The plain white that most rentals start out as probably looks entirely too much like 'the artist didn't bother with backgrounds this strip.'

[Kish]

I'm wary of dipping my foot back into a discussion about Jeph's inclusion policies after the last few pages, but if I had one criticism to make of them which I think might be plausible, is that Jeph tends to be very shy about portraying non-binary characters as anything other than 'nice'.
All of his non-binary characters are polite, friendly, pleasant people and I can't think of any that display any kind of unwanted character traits, with the exception of things like Dora's neuroses which has been extensively justified by her relationship with her family and especially her brother.

The best I could come up with was Tai's ex-girlfriend who smirked - if you can believe the nerve of that! - when she was introduced to Dora, and she existed for all of 3 panels, ever. That or Faye's sister... Hannah? Who is portrayed as being so naive and air-headed that as much pain she causes, it's all just wacky hijinks for which she is soon forgiven.

When Dora and Faye's issues, which wrecked multiple relationships for both of them, don't count for "any kind of unwanted character traits" because they've been "extensively justified," it seems to me that you're saying that all non-cishet characters are nice except when they have some character motivation not to be, which strikes me as a lot like saying "I think it reflects badly on Jeph that he only uses colors between 380 and 740 wavelength." Which cishet characters are you thinking of who are portrayed as motivationlessly bad? There's Vespagirl, insofar as having shown up in a few comics as a violent antagonist for an arc makes her a character at all. Other than that, I can only think of Hannelore's mother. And neither are actually established cishet.

[Thufir]

This is the QC-verse, where people just move into new apartments whenever they want. All of the prices are manageable, all of the locations are at least pleasant, and no-one ever needs to see more than one place before they decide on somewhere to live, for which they can just pay their deposit for it and then move in whenever they like. Paperwork? Credit checks? What are those ridiculous sounding things!?

Not sure how seriously (if at all) you intended this to be taken, but I suspect the reason those things don't happen in QC is because Jeph doesn't think they'd be very interesting to read about.

I'm wary of dipping my foot back into a discussion about Jeph's inclusion policies after the last few pages, but if I had one criticism to make of them which I think might be plausible, is that Jeph tends to be very shy about portraying non-binary non-heteronormative characters as anything other than 'nice'.

I think you're pretty far off on this. I mean, you specifically brought up Dora's neuroses - them being justified doesn't negate them as character traits, it just means they've been more fully explored. Most if not all negative traits people have, there's a reason they have them. We can also add in all Faye's issues since she's now in a lesbian relationship and voluntarily picked up the bi label. Renee matched with guys, girls and Pintsize on Tinder, so throw her on the pile as well.
Also, even aside from those examples, I don't feel like the non-heteronormative characters are that much more nice, polite and friendly than the heteronormative ones are. QC in general does not abound with people being ****s to each other whatever their identity and orientation.

[Wraith]

When Dora and Faye's issues, which wrecked multiple relationships for both of them, don't count for "any kind of unwanted character traits" because they've been "extensively justified," it seems to me that you're saying that all non-cishet characters are nice except when they have some character motivation not to be, which strikes me as a lot like saying "I think it reflects badly on Jeph that he only uses colors between 380 and 740 wavelength."

This isn't a hill that I intend to die upon, just to make that clear - I thought I had spotted a pattern, but I'm quite happy to be corrected.

To use the example that we have shared so far though, I suppose I was comparing Dora to Marten. Dora was insecure and passive aggressive which was put down to a diagnosed neuroses which stemmed from previous toxic relationships and a similarly unpleasant relationship with her brother; Marten was spiteful and petty in return because he was acting like a jerk.

I am NOT saying anything like "she gets away with it because she has a Freudian excuse", nothing of the sort. I just couldn't think of any examples where a none-cishet character was "wrong" purely because of a mistaken point of view. Again, happily corrected and I'll freely admit that Jeph probably treats all of his favourite characters as his darlings regardless of the orientation, depending on the situation, so it may have been unfair ofme to make this into an orientation-based discussion.

Which cishet characters are you thinking of who are portrayed as motivationlessly bad?

Sven is a jerk. Penny is caustic and entitled. Steve can be a chauvinistic pig. Will is entitled and quite spoiled. Clinton is asocial and rude (though has, admittedly, gotten better). Marigold's dad is an *******. Hell, even Marten's behaviour towards Padme sometimes puts him in that group.

Not sure how seriously (if at all) you intended this to be taken, but I suspect the reason those things don't happen in QC is because Jeph doesn't think they'd be very interesting to read about.

Given that I'm discussing the standard of property development in a fictional universe? Rest assured, not very seriously at all.

A throw-away line or two about "all the dumps we've seen so far" from someone might've been a nice touch, though. Not that I intend to tell Jeph how to write his own webcomic, or anything.

I think you're pretty far off on this.... QC in general does not abound with people being ****s to each other whatever their identity and orientation.

Fair enough. Perhaps I have just read far too deeply into this one throwaway character and ignored/forgotten other strips that contradicted me. I have completely forgotten that Renee matched with girls on Tinder, for example - I only remember her flirting with Elliot, the racist internet hook-up guy, and that time she threatened to bang some guy in the bathroom of the bar just because she could.

[Kish]

This isn't a hill that I intend to die upon, just to make that clear - I thought I had spotted a pattern, but I'm quite happy to be corrected.

To use the example that we have shared so far though, I suppose I was comparing Dora to Marten. Dora was insecure and passive aggressive which was put down to a diagnosed neuroses which stemmed from previous toxic relationships and a similarly unpleasant relationship with her brother; Marten was spiteful and petty in return because he was acting like a jerk.

That is an undeniable contrast and yet you're taking it to the exact opposite of the place I would. Dora's issues are severe enough that she needs therapy, was given close to 100% of the responsibility for her relationship with Marten tanking, and Faye ordered her to see a therapist; Marten got a very small number of "hey, you're being a jerk" nudges from his friends (not from professionals). You seem to be treating "went to therapy" as "got a Get Out of Bad Behavior Free card."

Sven is a jerk. Penny is caustic and entitled. Steve can be a chauvinistic pig. Will is entitled and quite spoiled. Clinton is asocial and rude (though has, admittedly, gotten better). Marigold's dad is an *******. Hell, even Marten's behaviour towards Padme sometimes puts him in that group.

If you read all of those as comparing unfavorably to (say) Dora and Faye, I'm afraid I continue to find your perspective one I can't relate to*. There are also unambiguously cishet characters you aren't mentioning: Hannelore and Marigold, and on the same "not established cishet but only indicated interests are heterosexual ones" as Vespagirl or Hannelore's mother, there's Emily, Momo, Raven. At least four of those have a clear moral high ground compared to Dora and Faye (where "clear" means "if you disagree our perspectives are so irreconcilable that we might as well stop there").

*With the note that my sole memory of Marigold's father is him demanding she explain steampunk, so if he's had non-humorous appearances, he may well be Hannelore's-mother-level bad; I just don't remember it.

[Lethologica]

To use the example that we have shared so far though, I suppose I was comparing Dora to Marten. Dora was insecure and passive aggressive which was put down to a diagnosed neuroses which stemmed from previous toxic relationships and a similarly unpleasant relationship with her brother; Marten was spiteful and petty in return because he was acting like a jerk.

Just want to point out that between Marten's weird near-relationship experience with Faye and the relationship that dumped him in this town in the first place, it's fairly easy to generate some excuses for him as well based on previous relationships, and it wouldn't actually excuse him, just like (as you say) Dora's excuses don't actually excuse her.

[Willie the Duck]

I don't know what the correct term would be - it used to be "positive discrimination", meaning to give preferential treatment to a perceived minority and 'overcompensating' for their previous hardships - but I feel that Jeph could be guilty of that a lot of time. His non-binary characters are all pleasant and cooperative and tolerant of quirkiness and so on... Which makes them sometimes feel a lot more shallow than his straight characters, who are allowed to be *******s from time to time and reap the rewards and punishments thereof. Kind of what beelzebub was talking about - their biggest defining characteristic is that they are non-binary - we're all down with that, but what else makes them interesting?

I honestly don't see it. This apartment-rental-story character is nearly blank because she has had all of seven speech bubbles, all related to the renting of an apartment. The rest of the non-cishet characters--I think they map to the same dynamic as the cishet characters in the strip -- those with a lot of character development are interesting and flawed, and those that are less developed are boring (or, in Melon's case, repetitively interesting in a random/wacky way, which is at least a cousin to boring). The exception is Claire, who, I will state, is definitely a situation where Jeph wanted to portray a character extremely positive light, so much so that her flaws (and she has them) are muted and forgivable and rather boring. Other than that one example, I really am not seeing any real data points that correlate cishet/non-cishet status with positive or negative lighting.

[Vinyadan]

Dora's neuroses which has been extensively justified by her relationship with her family and especially her brother.

Also the Goth scene. Iirc, before Marten she had always had been with trve Alpha-Goth *holes.

(I tried writing Alpha-Goth without hyphen, but it didn't look right...)

[Eldan]

Man. Also put me down for the "can't relate to the rental situation" camp. But then, I was trying to find a place in Zurich, where there were usually one or two afternoons where the flat was left open for people to have a look and there were lines down the stairs and out the front door. Also, on our current flat, we paid almost 5000$ deposit, and it's a ****hole sometimes.

[Vinyadan]

Is "because Renee is mean" a snipe at the reader reactions?

We may never know!

[Shadow of the Sun]

Moses seems like a good neighbor to have.

[SaintRidley]

I'm with Renee on this one - don't jump on the first place that looks remotely appealing just because it looks appealing. At least if you're not desperate (we lucked out with our desperation place for grad school, but easily could have been boned hard by this town's horrible rental market).

That said, I would do exactly what Elliot did if there were a cat that just lived in the building and friendly like that.

[AvatarVecna]

Is "because Renee is mean" a snipe at the reader reactions?

We may never know!

It's the kind of jab friends give each other sometimes, often in sarcasm when you know said friend is being reasonable about a thing you're not being reasonable about, where you know what you're doing is probably a bit problematic but it's still your preference. It also seems pretty in keeping with Brun's sense of humor to deadpan things where part of the joke is wondering if she's being serious or not.

Assuming it has anything to do with you is incredibly narcissistic and pessimistic about the comic as a whole. You just wanna be offended by the comic, so you're looking for every opportunity to do so.

[Vinyadan]

Assuming it has anything to do with you is incredibly narcissistic and pessimistic about the comic as a whole. You just wanna be offended by the comic, so you're looking for every opportunity to do so.

No, not really. I simply know that he checks the pages of the referrals he gets, so I assume that he takes a look at the discussion surrounding them. There are other points in which I think there was such an implicit answer, like here: https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3882 from my point of view, Martin is admitting that watching the girls smoking pot was quite boring, which was also said by readers, which I assume is why an unusual dog abruptly appeared out of nowhere -- to solve a boring standstill.

And, while I haven't reread all of my posts, I don't remember having said that Renee is a jerk; I surely don't feel the animosity certain posts show towards the character. I was actually surprised that people found her such, especially for things that didn't make much sense to me, and keeping in mind the recurring cast of this comic. I even kind of defended her choice of starting the search for a new accommodation for Brun. So, I would have found such a joke pretty funny. For all the hate she gets, she has been shown taking care of a friend since school, in ways that I don't expect to ever see outside family, and, I assume, without expecting anything in return.

So I just wanted to point out that, if this is really referring to me and isn't just an impersonal "you" (which I find very hard to believe because of the second phrase), it's based on completely wrong premises and doesn't have anything true in it.