Let's Read The Immortal Handbook Bestiary

[Karl Aegis]

It's an evil pair of lips with tentacles coming out the other side. It's also an evil bush.

[Elricaltovilla]

It's an evil pair of lips with tentacles coming out the other side. It's also an evil bush.

So like this?

[Karl Aegis]

So like this?

Make the head part thinner and open the mouth wider and you have an odium. Oh, and it's strangling a guy in a robe and wizard hat.

[JoshuaZ]

Ask and you shall receive.


Odium, CR 33


Once again, I really couldn't find a working picture, it looks like a giant Venus fly trap with tentacles.


As if the book heard me complaining about how samey all the previous monsters are, it gives us this thing! This plant creature enslaves people starting with rural areas and eventually, taking over the entire world! Like some kind of plant supervillain. Fluffwise, the Odium results from the creations of nature gods that were corrupted, which is neat.

The Odium casts as a 27th level Druid (CL 59) and gets a nice collection of SLAs (also CL 59), including Shapechange and Dominate Monster.

They also can enslave people by grappling them, which as far as I can tell isn’t mind effecting. It always has 1d6-1 puppets of levels that are equal to 1d10+20. On average, that’s 3 level 25 characters and the Odium explicitly prefers Arcane spellcasters and warriors. Meaning, it probably has at least 1 epic spellcaster in its employ.

Worse still, the Odium can create a seed that will slowly grow into a clone if the original is slain. It’s also got Regeneration 25 and DR 25, both bypassed by epic and good.

Furthermore, this creature has epic spellcasting (albeit with some crappy epic spells) and can summon a Mu Spore once per day. To top it all off, the Odium has 12 tentacle attacks to use, making meleeing one a dicey proposition at best.

The Odium is the first monster in this book that I think is worth its challenge rating. Even right out of the box, it has Shapechange and with a bit of DM customization, it becomes infinitely more dangerous.

It will likely have access to at least one epic spellcaster and whatever minions it nabbed with its spells. Finally, even if the PCs kill it, it probably will just emerge from a seed it planted at some far-off lair.

I think this is the first monster in this book that I truly like and if I ever ran an epic game, I might want to include one.

That actually sounds pretty neat, and might be a fun creature to have. I don't generally run Epic games but this monster could make me wish I did. I can see a whole bunch of fun things one could do with it.

[ColorBlindNinja]

That actually sounds pretty neat, and might be a fun creature to have. I don't generally run Epic games but this monster could make me wish I did. I can see a whole bunch of fun things one could do with it.

This monster could fuel an entire campaign and serve as a high level boss encounter at the end of it.

[Kalkra]

Unlike many of these abilities, saving against the Enslave ability doesn't make you immune to it. It could just let go and then grapple you again. Or, y'know, kill you.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Unlike many of these abilities, saving against the Enslave ability doesn't make you immune to it. It could just let go and then grapple you again. Or, y'know, kill you.

I'd be more concerned about that, but parties at these levels are going to have Mind Blank and Freedom of Movement.

Sure, the Odium could dispel those buffs, but I'm not certain that'd be the most optimal course of action for it to take.

[danielxcutter]

Honestly, at this point in the game - and arguably way before that - to make a really challenging foe you need to give it a bunch of SLAs at minimum, and racial casting is even better. Which the Odium has. Granted, the CL is kinda out of whack, but it's still a lot better than the snooze some supposedly "epic" monsters are. Druid spellcasting might not be the best, honestly, but it's still one of the most supported lists in the entire game.

[Kalkra]

Having read through the Bestiary and Ascension, one of the things that jumped out the most to me (other than the poor editing, balance, etc.) was the vocabulary. I googled "anaretic", and then had to look up the definitions of the word in the definition. I mean, how did the author even think/know of these words? A thesaurus isn't going to cut of this stuff, yet I find it difficult to believe that the author is conversant in both obscure medical conditions and Greek astrology. Then again, I do know a guy like that.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Honestly, at this point in the game - and arguably way before that - to make a really challenging foe you need to give it a bunch of SLAs at minimum, and racial casting is even better. Which the Odium has. Granted, the CL is kinda out of whack, but it's still a lot better than the snooze some supposedly "epic" monsters are. Druid spellcasting might not be the best, honestly, but it's still one of the most supported lists in the entire game.

I think it's caster level is out of whack because the book's author said he wanted them to be able to beat the spell resistance of their fellow monsters.

[danielxcutter]

Does anyone know how I can get a look at this without spending money?

[JoshuaZ]

I think it's caster level is out of whack because the book's author said he wanted them to be able to beat the spell resistance of their fellow monsters.

The obvious solutions to that are to either a) give it bonuses to penetrating spell resistance b) give more supernatural abilities. SR is in general not well constructed. Like many things in this book, it seems like the authors had no good options but then took one of the worse ones.

[danielxcutter]

The obvious solutions to that are to either a) give it bonuses to penetrating spell resistance b) give more supernatural abilities. SR is in general not well constructed. Like many things in this book, it seems like the authors had no good options but then took one of the worse ones.

Or c) use SR:No spells.

[ColorBlindNinja]

The obvious solutions to that are to either a) give it bonuses to penetrating spell resistance b) give more supernatural abilities. SR is in general not well constructed.

Either would have worked.

Like many things in this book, it seems like the authors had no good options but then took one of the worse ones.

That statement would seem accurate.

[OgresAreCute]

Yeah, this plant thing is actually cool. The previous ones are either really lame (Anakim) or downright silly (Henry the Hoover and Snuffleupagus). This plant thing immediately made me think of how it could be a cool BBEG for a campaign that ends in the low-ish epic levels.

Spoiler: Does this work?

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Looks like that Fighter knows where this is going.

[Eldan]

I'll agree that this actually sounds like something that could work. But probably too high level for me to ever use, especially if it has epic level minions. Epic level characters don't just walk around in most of my worlds.

[danielxcutter]

I'll agree that this actually sounds like something that could work. But probably too high level for me to ever use, especially if it has epic level minions. Epic level characters don't just walk around in most of my worlds.

To be fair, a monster with a CR this high is likely to only be used in stupidly-high-leveled Epic games anyways.

[Eldan]

Oh, I know. I'm just saying I'm tempted to try and write a challenge rating ~20 version of this.

[Theoboldi]

I'll agree that this actually sounds like something that could work. But probably too high level for me to ever use, especially if it has epic level minions. Epic level characters don't just walk around in most of my worlds.

I will admit, part of me loves the stupidly large scale behind this monster. This is a creature that has travelled many worlds, enslaving the greatest champions of each to its will. Each of its guardians is an elite warrior with a history more illustrious than most complete adventuring parties. With every world it conqers, it brings more of these heroes under its thrall, and destroys ever greater civilizations.

It's an actually fitting epic challenge. Which is rare.

[Eldan]

Okay, that is pretty dang cool, I will admit.

[gkathellar]

I think it's caster level is out of whack because the book's author said he wanted them to be able to beat the spell resistance of their fellow monsters.

How very circular.

I agree that Audrey is actually a pretty cool concept, but I take issue with aspects of the implementation ("the monster is accompanied by 0-5 epic level PCs" is bad design, full stop - things like that should be left to encounter design). There are some interesting ideas mixed in here (like the demiplane-stomach thing, even if that is actually just Gluttony from FMA), it's just, like ... they're expressed entirely in the medium of pantomime, and the author isn't even a very good mime.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Sadim, CR 36

Spoiler: Sadim

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Picture link (please work!)

The Sadim is a lot less interesting than the Odium, sadly. These guys come from gods who are super greedy. They collect magic items and eat gold. They even have a gold breath weapon and infect people with a disease that destroys your wealth. WE GET IT, THEY LIKE GOLD!!!

Weirdly, the Sadim’s DR and Regeneration can be bypassed by weapons that were given to the PCs as gifts. I could easily see this turning into a no-win scenario, where the players can’t actually kill it.

Sadims get a ton of Rogue abilities, they can summon an adult red dragon once per weak (horrible at these levels), and they get some SLAs. The only SLA that’s really that good is Gate, which can, of course, be as abusive as the DM wants to be.

Honestly, the worst thing about this monster is the disease that destroys your stuff. That could easily cripple a character, given how much wealth epic characters have. Other than that? Besides the players not being able to kill the Sadim, it’s not that impressive. Another boring monster…

And that was the last of the Abominations. All in all, only the Odium was actually worthy of its CR. We’ll move on to some templates next time!

[JoshuaZ]

Weirdly, the Sadim’s DR and Regeneration can be bypassed by weapons that were given to the PCs as gifts. I could easily see this turning into a no-win scenario, where the players can’t actually kill it.

This is the sort of symbolic thing which is great in a story or a myth, but is really not great when one is trying to make a mimimally balanced game.

[ColorBlindNinja]

This is the sort of symbolic thing which is great in a story or a myth, but is really not great when one is trying to make a mimimally balanced game.

I agree, it's very thematic, but it could screw over the entire party.

[danielxcutter]

Thematic, yes. CR-worthy... nah. The idea is very cool, I'll say that much, but that's about it.

[Khedrac]

Weirdly, the Sadim’s DR and Regeneration can be bypassed by weapons that were given to the PCs as gifts. I could easily see this turning into a no-win scenario, where the players can’t actually kill it.

This is the sort of symbolic thing which is great in a story or a myth, but is really not great when one is trying to make a mimimally balanced game.

This basically comes down to "do the PCs make the knowledge check to know this?"

It is the standard technique for dealing with something whose regeneration you cannot bypass right now - pummel it down to several thousand negative hit points and then find a way to kill it.
If they make the knowledge check then one party member says to the main damage dealer "here, I give you my dagger" and one coup de grace later the Sadim is dead and the dagger gets given back.
If they don't, it's either you spells that can kill by bypassing the regen mechanic or wander around with an unconsious creature until someone can tell them how to kill it.

[danielxcutter]

This basically comes down to "do the PCs make the knowledge check to know this?"

It is the standard technique for dealing with something whose regeneration you cannot bypass right now - pummel it down to several thousand negative hit points and then find a way to kill it.
If they make the knowledge check then one party member says to the main damage dealer "here, I give you my dagger" and one coup de grace later the Sadim is dead and the dagger gets given back.
If they don't, it's either you spells that can kill by bypassing the regen mechanic or wander around with an unconsious creature until someone can tell them how to kill it.

Hey, do Abominations need to breath? If so, a bucket of water might work...

[Karl Aegis]

Hey, do Abominations need to breath? If so, a bucket of water might work...

They don't due to their divinity status at the very least.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Sorry this one's late, I lost track of time yesterday.


Akalich, CR Variable

(No picture again, I couldn't find one that works. )

Is it just me, does creating a more powerful version of a Demilich seem kind of an inane thing to do?

An Akalich is so old that it doesn’t have a body anymore, so now it’s incorporeal. Adding the template increase Demilich’s CR by 40, meaning the lowest possible CR it can have is 69.

The Akalich keeps virtually all the same abilities the Demilich had, including 3.0 style magic immunity. It also gets the ability to consume immortal souls, which it has 2d4 of (average 5). If the PCs kill it, it can consume one to bring itself back to life. That’s on top of its phylactery.

The Akalich gives its recipient a +50 to all its mental ability scores, the ability to use all skills, d20 hit dice with max HP for each die, a 900-foot flight speed, and sonic resistance 100.

Most of the SLAs it gets aren’t very noteworthy except for Astral Projection at will and Wish 3/day. If the Akalich is feeling particularly cruel, it can sacrifice one of its immortal souls to deal damage to equal to its full HP to everyone 100 feet away. No save.

There is a sample statblock here, but it’s horrid. In particular, his spell selection is awful, but he makes up for it by having an OP artifact. It basically gives its user a morale bonus equal to a single opponent’s level to AC, caster level checks, initiative, saving throws and a couple other things. He also gets 10 times his enemy’s level as a bonus to his HP.

This monster falls squarely into the category of “how do you expect anyone to kill it?” This is a 3.5 statblock, so it’s not like you can claim no one updated the Akalich’s magic immunity.

Your best bet in my book is to have an Epic Binder drop a Sphere of Annihilation on it… 6 times.

[JoshuaZ]

Most of the SLAs it gets aren’t very noteworthy except for Astral Projection at will and Wish 3/day. If the Akalich is feeling particularly cruel, it can sacrifice one of its immortal souls to deal damage to its full HP to everyone 100 feet away. No save.

Does the "it" in "its full HP" refer to the Akalich or the beings getting damaged?