Wizard MC Cleric Dip

[Savage Henry]

So me and my RP group have a campaign that's been running for around 2 1/2 years now. I had a PC death and rolled up a Sorcadin, but I just don't like the feel of the character at all.

I'm wanting to roll up a new character, and I really want to roll a 2 1/2 foot tall, insane, gnome wizard. I'm thinking about going with forest gnome, and I'm strongly considering taking a 1 level dip into cleric at first level for breastplate, shield, and knowledge domain for RP reasons.

My question is, I'm having difficulty understanding the MC rolls, and I can't find an answer. When I MC, do I get the starting skill proficiencies of BOTH classes (for instance, the 'chose two' section) or only of one?

Also, would taking the one level dip be noticeably painful? Our group is currently level 13, and we're planning on going until 20th, so I'd be cleric 1/wizard 12 atm, and taking wizard the rest of the way.

[JNAProductions]

Repost this in the appropriate subforum. This looks like 5E, but it could be anything.

[Psyren]

What system are you running? I assume D&D, but what edition?

[Particle_Man]

I will assume 5e. You get the starting proficiencies of the class you started with at character level one. Then, later, assuming that you have 13 in int and wis, you might get a few more proficiencies. Not anything g like the full set though. Check the multiclass list under the class you are going to.

I would recommend starting with cleric and then going wizard.

[Savage Henry]

I apologize about posting in the wrong forum, it's my first post.

Thank you for the responses!

We're running 5e at the moment. We're doing a stat roll and I got 17/14/15/15/14/15 so I got pretty lucky.

[Particle_Man]

Sweet stats! If you don't bother with feats, I believe that you could end up with 20s in Int, Dex and Con, which is nice for a wizard. Then you still have a plus two bonus in wis, str and chr (I guess I would put the 15 into str just for encumbrance reasons, but it really doesn't matter much between 14 and 15 otherwise if you are not taking feats - you already pass the threshold for multiclassingl

Oh, and checking up on multi-classing, you could go wizard first. While you don't gain any more skill proficiencies for multiclassing into cleric, you do gain proficiency in medium armour, shields and light armour. So it depends on whether you want the saving throws and initial skillset of the wizard or the saving throws and initial skillset of the cleric. Also, cleric has slightly more maximum hp. I would lean slightly towards the cleric first but since it is for rp reasons, that is up to you.

[djreynolds]

Well you really don't need heavy armor with that dexterity, but obviously you could go with plate armor if you took war cleric, life cleric, or tempest cleric or forge cleric

You may be tempted to go cleric first for wisdom and charisma save proficiency, but intelligence comes up as much charisma does IMO. And you will get the cleric armor proficiency for archetypes no matter when you grab them.

I would grab knowledge cleric, expertise early on in 2 intelligence skills will come in very handy.

[Savage Henry]

My current plan is to start in the cleric class. If how I'm reading this is correct, I only get the proficiencies (investigation, history, ect) of the class I START in, and they won't stack when I MC. I'm planning on taking the knowledge domain for Arcana and History as it fits role play wise. My DM has done maybe one int save this entire game, so Int wouldn't be helpful or missed starting as cleric instead of wizard. Plus, I'd get more HP at 1st starting as a cleric.

I'm planning on using two ASI's to max Int and up dex to 16, I'm planning on wearing a breastplate and shield, so that should give me 19 AC. I'm using my 3rd ASI to take the lucky feat and pair that with the deviation school's portent for wizard.

[Merudo]

I'm planning on using two ASI's to max Int and up dex to 16, I'm planning on wearing a breastplate and shield, so that should give me 19 AC. I'm using my 3rd ASI to take the lucky feat and pair that with the deviation school's portent for wizard.

You don't get extra AC for having over 14 dex while using medium armor.

I would grab knowledge cleric, expertise early on in 2 intelligence skills will come in very handy.

Honestly I've not seen much use for knowledge skills, but that might because I tend to play WotC adventures.

Other good domains are Forge (for the +1 bonus), Order (for the reaction attacks on buffs), & Trickery (for the advantage on stealth checks).

[RogueJK]

You don't get extra AC for having over 14 dex while using medium armor.

Correct. Characters wearing medium armor can only get up to +2 DEXMOD to AC. Therefore anything over 14 DEX doesn't have any benefit for medium armor AC. Regardless of whether your DEX was 14/15/16/17/18/19/20, your character would have an 18 AC with Breastplate (14) + DEX (2) + Shield (2).

If you want to take advantage of 16 DEX while wearing Medium Armor, you'd have to spend another ASI on the "Medium Armor Master" feat, which lets you add up to +3 DEXMOD to AC when wearing medium armor. (It's rarely worth spending a whole feat just for +1 AC, though.)

I'm planning on using two ASI's to max Int and up dex to 16. I'm using my 3rd ASI to take the lucky feat and pair that with the deviation school's portent for wizard.

Because of the above, I'd leave DEX at 14 and spend that ASI on boosting a different stat. CON is the easy choice, since casters rely heavily on Concentration checks, plus extra HP is always nice.

I'd do a Forest Gnome Knowledge Cleric 1/Divination Wizard 12 starting with:

STR 14
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 17+2
WIS 15+1
CHA 15

4th level ASI: Fade Away feat (20 INT and Invisibility Reaction 1/rest) or Linguist feat (20 INT and +3 languages known)
8th level ASI: Resilient CON feat (16 CON plus CON save proficiency for better Concentration checks)
12th level ASI: Lucky feat

[djreynolds]

If you go S&B, you will need war caster, it is a must or you are going to be draw and sheathing your weapon all day

Knowledge cleric, the archetype with give you 2 new intelligence skills with expertise

For me I use nature and arcana all the time to figure out anything about a creature or monster

As for saves, banishment is a big deal, but its concentration, so the enemy has to concentrate on banishing you

So go ahead and begin cleric

Also a way to not need war caster, do not use a weapon. Go shield and weaponless. I had an armored wizard and I just used shocking grasp in melee (pre-scag) very effective

[RogueJK]

If you go S&B, you will need war caster, it is a must or you are going to be draw and sheathing your weapon all day

For this Wizard/Cleric, I wouldn't use a weapon at all. Use a shield in one hand and leave the other free to focus on casting. Your scaling cantrips will outdamage your single weapon attack anyway, and they will key off your high INT instead of your middling STR/DEX. And you won't need to do the sheathe/cast/unsheathe dance. Plus you won't have to worry about spending ASIs to boost either STR or DEX so your weapon attack can try to keep up.

Stay out of melee range and cast spells. If you ever end up in melee range, use a melee cantrip like Shocking Grasp (which has the bonus of allowing you to easily move away afterwards), or a save cantrip like Toll The Dead.

Yes, you'll miss out on Opportunity Attacks, but if you're avoiding the front lines, that's not a big deal since it will rarely come up.

(And if you really want to make an Opportunity Attack, you can always use your free hand to make an Unarmed Strike for 1+STR. That's only a few points less damage than making a weapon OA for up to 1d8+STR.)

[djreynolds]

For this Wizard/Cleric, I wouldn't use a weapon at all. Use a shield in one hand and leave the other free to focus on casting. Your scaling cantrips will outdamage your single weapon attack anyway, and they will key off your high INT instead of your middling STR/DEX. And you won't need to do the sheathe/cast/unsheathe dance. Plus you won't have to worry about spending ASIs to boost either STR or DEX so your weapon attack can try to keep up.

Stay out of melee range and cast spells. If you ever end up in melee range, use a melee cantrip like Shocking Grasp (which has the bonus of allowing you to easily move away afterwards), or a save cantrip like Toll The Dead.

Yes, you'll miss out on Opportunity Attacks, but if you're avoiding the front lines, that's not a big deal since it will rarely come up.

(And if you really want to make an Opportunity Attack, you can always use your free hand to make an Unarmed Strike for 1+STR. That's only a few points less damage than making a weapon OA for up to 1d8+STR.)

That's what I had recommended, I used shocking grasp in melee. Very effective

[Savage Henry]

Thank you for all the great advice!

And I'm debating the war caster feat because I'm not planning on ever being near the front lines. Role play, my character is a fearful, overly hyper nut case that just wants to eat gum drops, thank you very much.

One question I had for a sword and board, if I have a +1/+2 wand in one hand and a shield in the other, can I still cast without warcaster? Like, will the wand function as an arcane focus?

Also, I was planning on beefing up DEX for the initiative boost. Didn't know that about medium armor.

[RogueJK]

Yes, wands can be used as an Arcane Focus. An Arcane Focus can be used in place of "free" Material components. And a hand holding a spell's Focus or Material component can also be used for the Somatic component of that spell.

This will allow you to cast most Material component spells or Material + Somatic spells while holding a wand and shield. But you'd still need to stow the wand to cast spells with Somatic but no Material components.