Why did Loki screw over Hel?

[Fyraltari]

It brought impressiveness!

Well, I mean...

What do you mean?

[RowenMorland]

Strip 1083.

Hel makes it sound like winning the bet gives you something more than just the power of the souls. Like she'll get the power from all those souls, enough power to be head of her pantheon but she'll also get another choice prize.

If that's true then maybe whatever that is is the key to why Loki set the bet up.

[Riftwolf]

I doubt this is the first such bet. Over billions of worldlives, Lokis probably set up millions of wagers and bets. And, seeing as Gods don't have perfect foresight, they take him up on his hustles because they make things interesting. Sometimes one side of the bet gets screwed, sometimes both sides do. But the point of the bets is that they keep everyone playing. It shakes things up, stops the cycle from becoming boring, and sometimes they create unexpected results. I mean, who could've predicted the chain of events that led to Durkon being given his new divine mission? While the wager wasn't the sole cause of it, the chain would've been broken if Hel had a High Priest at the Moots.

[tyckspoon]

Largely unsupported headcanon: Hel could have ended the bet whenever she wanted, get her normal due of souls back, and make Clerics and participate in the world as usual. All she'd have to do is go to the rest of her pantheon and admit to being wrong. Souls aren't the most important thing, she lost the bet. Just.. admit to choosing wrong. To having lost. She can't do it. She'll go to any lengths to avoid that.

[Anymage]

My hunch is that, for Hel, the point of the bet is exactly what it looks like. Teach her that minding her followers is important if she wants a balanced divine diet. It may screw her up for a world or two, but that's no big deal over divine timespans with their countless millions of worlds. One or two worlds seem like a lot to us, but we've seen how vastly different divine scales are.

[Draconi Redfir]

I doubt this is the first such bet. Over billions of worldlives, Lokis probably set up millions of wagers and bets. And, seeing as Gods don't have perfect foresight, they take him up on his hustles because they make things interesting. Sometimes one side of the bet gets screwed, sometimes both sides do. But the point of the bets is that they keep everyone playing. It shakes things up, stops the cycle from becoming boring, and sometimes they create unexpected results. I mean, who could've predicted the chain of events that led to Durkon being given his new divine mission? While the wager wasn't the sole cause of it, the chain would've been broken if Hel had a High Priest at the Moots.

seconding this. i'll bet almost every god of every pantheon has had a bet like this going at some point or another. In this instance though Hel was involved, and she's taking things more seriously then everyone else did.

[factotum]

yeah i seriously doubt there was anything inherently malicious or planned about it all. Loki is a trickster god, most likely he just thought it'd be funny.

Yeah, this. Loki's whole schtick is playing tricks on the other Gods, both in real-world mythology and in OotS.

[Morquard]

Just to put a few things into perspective:

In 1140 Durkon speculated there are "millions [of worlds], maybe billions". Let's take a somewhat conservative estimate from that and say 50 million.

A human that lived for 90 years, has lived for 32,872 days or 788,928 hours or 47,335,680 minutes ...

Those gods have likely survived more worlds than a human lifespan has MINUTES!

What Loki did to Hel was more of a prank that will clear up and will be forgotten or laughed about together in 10 minutes than anything life threatening.

[KorvinStarmast]

Loki is kind of a living reminder that most of the more devastating events in history have as their reason : ‘It seemed like a good idea at the time’.

Yeah. (Not sure if that's Rich's intent, but it fits like a glove). Hold my beer ...

Loki is a trickster god, most likely he just thought it'd be funny.

Arrival of the-weirdo in 3, 2, 1 to laud the very essence of being chaotic ... hey, where did he go?

Why can't it just be "Loki (Trickster god) was tricking his family members (Again)"?

That's my baseline assumption.

The equivalent of scamming her out of money for this world, to make himself richer in the process.

This also fits.

Seven Bananjas. Maybe more.

Duelling bananjas?

Those gods have likely survived more worlds than a human lifespan has MINUTES!

[Mightymosy]

Maybe the plan is not primarily about Hel, but about Loki getting followers:
The stupid setup means dwarves need to die honorably in order to avoid Hell (note Loki proposed this exception!).
ALTERNATIVELY, they can be followers of Loki - if they are of a certain mindset that fits.
What, you wish to follow a different chaotic evil diety? Like a goddess of sickness and disease, maybe? Too bad, she doesn't do clerics in this world......
So, choose Loki or bust!

(yes there are MORE gods, but still one goddess less for competition is good for Loki,I'd guess)

[Mad Humanist]

I believe in the Grey Wolf Theory: that Loki was able to kill two birds with one stone. He not only screwed over Hel, but also Thor, by having him, a (seemingly) Chaotic god, be the biggest patron of one of the most Lawful societies on the Material Plane. I also wonder if it wouldn't have an effect on Thor like the non-magic-believers had on Odin, in messing him up somewhat for the next iteration of the planet.

I wonder if Loki was responsible for Odin's mental health issues. I suspect we're never going to find out though.

[dps]

My guess would be that Loki hates the undead (which is stated in-comic) and since Hel's domain includes the undead, he did it because weakening Hel would mean fewer and weaker undead.

[understatement]

To thread q:

Why not?

[Jasdoif]

Duelling bananjas?

Yes. Formally speaking, "bananjas" would only be appropriate to the two parties in the duel with respect to each other, while for a third party observer "bananja" would be correct conjugation....But traditionally, "bananjas" was used to additionally imply a duel was taking place; so it's still considered correct to say dueling baninjas are undertaking bananjas, and was so even before "bananja"'s noun formulation was widely accepted.

[Aveline]

My guess would be that Loki hates the undead (which is stated in-comic) and since Hel's domain includes the undead, he did it because weakening Hel would mean fewer and weaker undead.

My question is, for how many worlds' time has Loki hated the undead?

[Peelee]

My question is, for how many worlds' time has Loki hated the undead?

How many worlds even have undead?

[Aeson]

How many worlds even have undead?

While we have insufficient information to answer that, I would point out that undead creatures - or undead-like creatures - are a fairly common element of fantasy settings. Not universal, of course, but fairly common.

Also, assuming that a deity of X is a deity of X because the deity is in some way interested in X (as opposed to being a deity of X because mortals chose to ascribe X to the deity or consider X to be related to the deity's domains), it's relatively likely that X is going to be something common across most of the worlds that the deity had a hand in creating.

[Peelee]

While we have insufficient information to answer that, I would point out that undead creatures - or undead-like creatures - are a fairly common element of fantasy settings. Not universal, of course, but fairly common.

Also, assuming that a deity of X is a deity of X because the deity is in some way interested in X (as opposed to being a deity of X because mortals chose to ascribe X to the deity or consider X to be related to the deity's domains), it's relatively likely that X is going to be something common across most of the worlds that the deity had a hand in creating.

Yes, but there's nothing saying that most, or even a significant portion, of the worlds were fantasy settings. There was a sentient movie theater snacks world, after all, which likely had a patron deity of ice, and a deity who hated the sliced jalapeños that go with nachos, just to give examples.

[Fyraltari]

Yes, but there's nothing saying that most, or even a significant portion, of the worlds were fantasy settings. There was a sentient movie theater snacks world, after all, which likely had a patron deity of ice, and a deity who hated the sliced jalapeños that go with nachos, just to give examples.

The sentient snacks used magic.

[Peelee]

The sentient snacks used magic.

From my point of view they used midichlorians.

[Fyraltari]

From my point of view they used midichlorians.

Those don't make the flashy lights. Maybe get your point of view checked by a point of eye doctor?

[Jasdoif]

Yes, but there's nothing saying that most, or even a significant portion, of the worlds were fantasy settings. There was a sentient movie theater snacks world, after all, which likely had a patron deity of ice, and a deity who hated the sliced jalapeños that go with nachos, just to give examples.

The Freezer was an overdeity who didn't grant spells or otherwise interact with sentient snacks. The Slushie, on the other hand....

[Peelee]

Those don't make the flashy lights. Maybe get your point of view checked by a point of eye doctor?

The doc said nothing was medically wrong but I seem to be losing the will to live. The healthcare system in this universe is ridiculous.

Anyway, yeah, on further reflection I might be wrong. It's definitely possible (even very likely) that magic, and undead, and everything else they are patron gods of exist in every world.

[Rrmcklin]

I wonder if Loki was responsible for Odin's mental health issues. I suspect we're never going to find out though.

Well, yeah, works don't usually tend to answer questions they don't pose. There's no reason to actually assume Loki was involved with Odin's situation besides "He's Loki, so obviously he's involved with everything."

[Fyraltari]

The doc said nothing was medically wrong but I seem to be losing the will to live. The healthcare system in this universe is ridiculous.

What's his degree in? Alternatively, who does he specialize in treating?

Anyway, yeah, on further reflection I might be wrong. It's definitely possible (even very likely) that magic, and undead, and everything else they are patron gods of exist in every world.

I think that the job descriptions are a bit flexible, though (Else you have frost giants next to sentient pizzas), in gritty cyberpunk world, Hel might have had dominion over technozombies.

EDIT: Also I don't think loki could trick a in-command-of-all-his-mental-faculties Odin. One is a trickster, the other is a planner.

[Peelee]

What's his degree in?

Art history.

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAKtZ_r0V6E"]I think that the job descriptions are a bit flexible, though (Else you have frost giants next to sentient pizzas)

You mean the big ice cubes?

[Papa_Hewi]

I remember Hilgya talking about choosing Loki because his followers had some kind of exemption to the rules of honour? I don't remember the exact quote but if that's the case, Loki becomes the primary candidate of worship to any dwarf that doesn't want to live a life of subservience.

[Peelee]

I remember Hilgya talking about choosing Loki because his followers had some kind of exemption to the rules of honour? I don't remember the exact quote but if that's the case, Loki becomes the primary candidate of worship to any dwarf that doesn't want to live a life of subservience.

That's 1113, and it's a theory, not a rule. Big gamble, and one won't pay off, if you ask me.

[Papa_Hewi]

, and it's a theory, not a rule. Big gamble, and one won't pay off, if you ask me.

Doesn't have to pay off, Loki just has to think it's a good idea. Best case scenario is he becomes the primary god of his pantheon, worst case scenario he has to talk down his angry, and at this point, easily manipulated daughter who's now the most powerful Northern God.

Note when I say easily manipulated I mean in Loki's mind. Tricksters like him rarely expect major repercussions for their actions, and he could argue that it was his plan to make his loving daughter the ruler the entire time. He's got to have a ridiculous bluff modifier after all.

(Had to delete the link since this is a new account, thank you for posting it)

[Peelee]

Doesn't have to pay off

For the dwarves it does. Hilgya is the only one we've seen to espouse that theory, and her judgement is... let's call it severely compromised.