Bonus Spell Slots

[ProsecutorGodot]

Ring of Spell storing and Pearl of Power are some methods.

If you're intent on this, I'd recommend just using spell points as previously suggested. If you don't want to use those, keep these few design guidelines in mind. We can infer with a reasonable amount of certainty that WOTC had things like this in mind while creating 5e:
-Magic items that replicate specific1st and 2nd level spells on a charge based item typically do not require attunement. Higher level spellcasting items not only almost always require attunement but are pretty rare. This means that 1 or 2 extra 1st and 2nd level spell slots are reasonably low impact.
-The highest level spell slot that you can create with magic items, spell points* or even sorcery points is 5th level. It's worth noting that Warlocks also have no slots higher than this level, we can assume this is because of short rest recharging.
-Non spellcasters (and even casters to an extent) are very rarely even able to use magic items that cast spells higher than 5th level. The items that allow them to are either very rare or unsafe to use regularly.
*Spell points do allow you to make 6th level and higher slots but only once per level per long rest.

With all that in mind, just consider giving the party a Pearl of Power. Even a once daily 3rd or lower level extra spell slot will skew balance in favor of the players.

[WeaselGuy]

That's how spells work in the earlier stories of Jack Vance's Dying Earth series, which Gygax credited as the inspiration for the D&D magic system.

Huh. I'd always wondered where the term "Vancian Magic" came from. Now I know.
And knowing is half the battle. G.I. Joe!

[OverLordOcelot]

It also has benefits to balance if you allow a class to do really powerful things beyond what others can do, but only a few times.

That's not specific to a Vancian magic setup though - the current 'spell slot' system or most spell point systems do the same thing without the 'memorize each spell into a spell slot in advance' mechanic that distinguishes old D&D spellcasting.

[Alucard89]

Could someone explain how Variant Spell Points rule works? I read about it in DMG, but I don't really think I see where limitations are.

So level 10 Wizard has 50+5 spell points and he can use them all to just cast 4th level spells? What about level 9 spells or 8th on level 20 when he has like 100+ points?

[Mith]

Could someone explain how Variant Spell Points rule works? I read about it in DMG, but I don't really think I see where limitations are.

So level 10 Wizard has 50+5 spell points and he can use them all to just cast 4th level spells? What about level 9 spells or 8th on level 20 when he has like 100+ points?

For spell levels 6-9, they can only cast 1/day (1 of each spell level). What is gained is flexibility in levels 1-5.

[Rukelnikov]

Could someone explain how Variant Spell Points rule works? I read about it in DMG, but I don't really think I see where limitations are.

So level 10 Wizard has 50+5 spell points and he can use them all to just cast 4th level spells? What about level 9 spells or 8th on level 20 when he has like 100+ points?

It's somewhat like if a sorcerer didn't have a Sorcery points cap, and the first thing he did in the morning was turn all his slots into sorcery points.

[Sigreid]

That's not specific to a Vancian magic setup though - the current 'spell slot' system or most spell point systems do the same thing without the 'memorize each spell into a spell slot in advance' mechanic that distinguishes old D&D spellcasting.

For that statement I was actually referring to how long it takes the spellcaster to regain their power. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Alucard89]

For spell levels 6-9, they can only cast 1/day (1 of each spell level). What is gained is flexibility in levels 1-5.

Thank you.

It seems like super strong feature for Paladins and Sorcadins as then they can use all points for 4th level slots for smites.

But at the same time Point system seems to screw Sorcerers as their Font of Magic becomes useless.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Thank you.

It seems like super strong feature for Paladins and Sorcadins as then they can use all points for 4th level slots for smites.

But at the same time Point system seems to screw Sorcerers as their Font of Magic becomes useless.

I can tell you from experience that our party sorcerer isn't suffering in the slightest with spell points.

In fact, he's so reckless with his casting thanks to having so many high-level slots that he's often casting synaptic static on only 2 targets.

[Alucard89]

I can tell you from experience that our party sorcerer isn't suffering in the slightest with spell points.

In fact, he's so reckless with his casting thanks to having so many high-level slots that he's often casting synaptic static on only 2 targets.

Yeah, but so would Wizard with Spell Point system. Thing is- Spell Point rule makes Font of Magic useless as all spell slots are now perma-points so no need for mechanic to convert them to it.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Yeah, but so would Wizard with Spell Point system. Thing is- Spell Point rule makes Font of Magic useless as all spell slots are now perma-points so no need for mechanic to convert them to it.

Spell Points allow them to convert spell points into more Sorcery Points than they would have been able to using spell slots. For example, a 9th level sorcerer using spell slots can convert into a maximum of 14 36 additional Sorcery Points.

A 9th level sorcerer using spell points can convert into a maximum of 45 additional sorcery points. (converting eight 5th level spells at 7 spell points each)

It gives them way more Sorcery Points. So many in fact that they'll almost never have to worry about being unable to apply a metamagic to any spell they choose to cast. Pairs amazingly with Twin Spell.

[Rukelnikov]

Spell Points allow them to convert spell points into more Sorcery Points than they would have been able to using spell slots. For example, a 9th level sorcerer using spell slots can convert into a maximum of 14 additional Sorcery Points.

A 9th level sorcerer using spell points can convert into a maximum of 45 additional sorcery points. (converting eight 5th level spells at 7 spell points each)

It gives them way more Sorcery Points. So many in fact that they'll almost never have to worry about being unable to apply a metamagic to any spell they choose to cast. Pairs amazingly with Twin Spell.

Not sure where that 14 came from, 9th level sorcerer can convert: 4*1 + 3*2 + 3*3 + 3*4 + 1*5 = 4 + 6 + 9 + 12 + 5 = 36

[ProsecutorGodot]

Not sure where that 14 came from, 9th level sorcerer can convert: 4*1 + 3*2 + 3*3 + 3*4 + 1*5 = 4 + 6 + 9 + 12 + 5 = 36

Thanks for correcting my stupid maths, I just ignored the slot level and added the number of slots.

My point does still stand though, that you gain more sorcery points through using spell points and can use a greater number of them on higher level spells.

[Yunru]

It's interesting to look at the loss ratios when converting spell points into spell slots into sorcerer points.
1st level: 50% loss
2nd level: 33% loss
3rd level: 40% loss
4th level: 33% loss
5th level: 29% loss

[sophontteks]

The inefficiency is a one way street. Converting sorcery points into spell slots is inefficient, while converting spell slots into metamagic is efficient.

Take a look at the Shadow sorcerer, who can cast an enhanced darkness spell for 2 metamagic. That is the same cost as converting a level 2 spell in the first place. It's 100% efficient. Hound of Ill Omen would easily qualify as a good third level spell as well, and it too has a 100% efficient conversion rate. A final example is twinned spell, which costs 1 point per spell level to double cast a spell. Again, there is 0 loss from this conversion.

A sorcerer who gobbles up some of his lower level slots to feed metamagic to his big-impact spells is getting a really good bargain.
A sorcerer who tries converting meta-magic into another big-impact spell is taking a huge loss.

With the right metamagics the greater impact of the spell should compensate for the loss of spell slots, and a sorcerer shouldn't feel as if they were in any way cut short of slots. They just made a bigger impact in a shorter span.

[HamsterKun]

And then there's the question; do you want more spells prepared, spells known or spell slots to be tied to this mechanic? And then you have to figure out how it affects the bard, sorcerer differently from the cleric, druid, wizard and the warlock especially.

Spell Slots.
Having more spells prepared or known from a prime ability score could run into balance problems ascerning optimization.

[Alucard89]

Had a pleasure today to test Spell Points on level 6 Paladin and I have to say it's great optional rule especially for them. Having 14 points I was able to generate one level 1 slot (it was Bless this time) and 4 x 2th level slots for 3d8 smites, as opposed to having only 2 x 2nd level slots.

A pure level 20 Paladin will have 64 points, which allows him to generate up to 10 x 4th level slots for Smites as opposed to 5 x 5d8 slots (3/2) they normally would have on level 20.

It's especially strong on Sorcadins, as you can forget mostly unused 1st and 2nd level slots and generate additional 4th level slots for smites, giving them even more smites than normal Sorcadin do. Or generating more Sorcery Points for metamagic.

6/14 Sorcadin would have 107 Spell Points, allowing him to generate up to 17 x 4th level smites if needed or generate 50 Sorcery Points (using 1st level slots 100/2 = 50 slots, each 1st level slot is 1 Sorcery Point)

Party Wizard and Druid also had a lot of fun being more flexible with spells.

Glad I discovered this rule in this thread, will use it from now. Much better than standard slot system imo.

[Mitsu]

Had a pleasure today to test Spell Points on level 6 Paladin and I have to say it's great optional rule especially for them. Having 14 points I was able to generate one level 1 slot (it was Bless this time) and 4 x 2th level slots for 3d8 smites, as opposed to having only 2 x 2nd level slots.

A pure level 20 Paladin will have 64 points, which allows him to generate up to 10 x 4th level slots for Smites as opposed to 5 x 5d8 slots (3/2) they normally would have on level 20.

It's especially strong on Sorcadins, as you can forget mostly unused 1st and 2nd level slots and generate additional 4th level slots for smites, giving them even more smites than normal Sorcadin do. Or generating more Sorcery Points for metamagic.

6/14 Sorcadin would have 107 Spell Points, allowing him to generate up to 17 x 4th level smites if needed or generate 50 Sorcery Points (using 1st level slots 100/2 = 50 slots, each 1st level slot is 1 Sorcery Point)

Party Wizard and Druid also had a lot of fun being more flexible with spells.

Glad I discovered this rule in this thread, will use it from now. Much better than standard slot system imo.

That optional rule sounds actually like one big buff to Paladins and Sorcadins.

And really they don't need any more power...

[Tanarii]

That's how spells work in the earlier stories of Jack Vance's Dying Earth series, which Gygax credited as the inspiration for the D&D magic system.

The justification may have come from dying earth, but the inspiration was a pure war gaming mechanic: powerful abilities, especially artillery strikes, were limited use per scenario. Wizard, and to a lesser degree cleric, hero characters were effectively artillery.

[Particle_Man]

Divination wizards can get spell slots back (both the archetype and the class do this, actually).