Avengers: Endgame Discussion Thread

[Androgeus]

Joe Russo did a QnA about the plot. One of the answers is about the currently discussed topic

[Devonix]

Joe Russo did a QnA about the plot. One of the answers is about the currently discussed topic

Spoiler

Show

Ok he's saying it's an alternate time. But that's breaking the rules he established. If it was an alternate universe, then how did he end up on the bench?

[Chen]

Spoiler

Show

Ok he's saying it's an alternate time. But that's breaking the rules he established. If it was an alternate universe, then how did he end up on the bench?

Spoiler

Show

The last comment says he made another jump back to give the shield to Falcon. So really they should have just showed old man Steve showup on the platform and everything would have been fine and consistent. If you think about it, Bruce did say he "went by his coordinates" or something when he tried to bring him back so maybe he did "jump" back just not exactly the same way as we expected.

[Devonix]

Spoiler

Show

The last comment says he made another jump back to give the shield to Falcon. So really they should have just showed old man Steve showup on the platform and everything would have been fine and consistent. If you think about it, Bruce did say he "went by his coordinates" or something when he tried to bring him back so maybe he did "jump" back just not exactly the same way as we expected.

Spoiler

Show

Yeah it seems that just having him show up on the platform would have made things make much more sense. But they wanted the dramatic reveal.

[Lacuna Caster]

Joe Russo did a QnA about the plot. One of the answers is about the currently discussed topic

'If you have to explain it, it ruins the joke!'

[Aedilred]

The series is Tony becoming Steve Rogers / Frodo and Steve Rogers becoming Old Tony.

I think that when it eventually comes to describing this series of 22 films up to and including Endgame, they could do a lot worse for a title than The Tragedy of Tony Stark.

Especially bearing in mind that he's fatally injured in the very first scene of the entire MCU, it's hard not to see that as the overarching story arc of the entire series to date. Moreso than the Infinity Stones, which are never really more than macguffins.

[Lacuna Caster]

I think that when it eventually comes to describing this series of 22 films up to and including Endgame, they could do a lot worse for a title than The Tragedy of Tony Stark.

I dunno. It's more a heroic ending than a tragic ending.

[LibraryOgre]

I enjoyed it.

I tried to track who did NOT have a cameo that was relatively important in the earlier movies. My list is

Martin Freeman's character from Black Panther
The Warriors Three
Sif
Odin
Darcy
Selvig

Everyone else, that I can recall, had at least a cameo in the movie.

[Razade]

I tried to track who did NOT have a cameo that was relatively important in the earlier movies. My list is

Martin Freeman's character from Black Panther

This was a sad omission sadly.

The Warriors Three

That'd have been hard to swing. They were all killed by Hella long before the snap.

Sif

We don't know where she is, we haven't seen or heard her mentioned since Thor 2 and contractual obligations kept her from being in 3. So probably for the same reason.

Odin

Also dead.

Everyone else, that I can recall, had at least a cameo in the movie.

Fury's female assistant wasn't present in the movie as far as I can recall. Maria Hill I believe her name is, that's what Google is returning at least. The doctor that helped Thor/helped Loki...there's a few people that got left out but their omissions are probably for the best. The cast was already huge.

[LeSwordfish]

Given how many Thor ensemble characters were missing,

Spoiler

Show

I wonder if they cut something out of that section of film. Ultimately though, while a cameo would have been nice, there was no real point to them, and it would just have messed up the nice moment of Thor and his mother.

Also was Darcy even on asgard at that time? Would have taken some work to fit her in.

[Magic_Hat]

So, I just realized something: **** Steve Rogers.

Everything was his fault, he insisted that they stick to his principles and not sacrifice Vision to stop Thanos. Everyone who had to die or watch their loved ones die has him to blame. But atleast he was sticking to his principles... until he decided to peace out and live his happily ever after.

#notmycaptainamerica

You sir took the words right out of my mouth and are one of the most intelligent people I've ever met.

[Rodin]

Given how many Thor ensemble characters were missing,

Spoiler

Show

I wonder if they cut something out of that section of film. Ultimately though, while a cameo would have been nice, there was no real point to them, and it would just have messed up the nice moment of Thor and his mother.

Also was Darcy even on asgard at that time? Would have taken some work to fit her in.

Spoiler

Show

I don't believe she was. If I'm recalling the movie correctly, Jane got infected with Infinity Stone and Thor Bifrosted just her and him straight to Asgard.

The rule on who got a cameo largely seems to be thus:

1) Were they present for one of the big pivotal Infinity Stones moments, or could they reasonably be inserted into that moment (like the Ancient One being in New York)?

2) If not, were they alive to answer the summons at the end of the movie? If so, are they badass enough to reasonably be willing to show up and fight a hell army?

This is why we don't get a cameo from people like Agent Coulson - he died (or rather "died" if we count AoS as canon) prior to the battle for New York. I was a bit disappointed that Stark and Cap's jaunt to retrieve the Tesseract didn't port them to just prior to Loki coming through at the start of Avengers specifically so we could get a cameo for him.

[Olinser]

Given how many Thor ensemble characters were missing,

Spoiler

Show

I wonder if they cut something out of that section of film. Ultimately though, while a cameo would have been nice, there was no real point to them, and it would just have messed up the nice moment of Thor and his mother.

Also was Darcy even on asgard at that time? Would have taken some work to fit her in.

Well I don't hold things like Darcy and Selvig against them. They're not powered individuals, they'd be as out of place in the finale as Dr Strange's girlfriend showing up.

Odin and the Warriors 3 are dead of non-Snap causes. They're not coming back.

There's a lot of combat-competent side characters I didn't see like Agent 13, Kraglin and Phil Coulson, but the only GLARING missing person from the finale was Sif. She was conspicuously absent from Ragnarok and there's no reason she shouldn't have been there as highly trained and skilled Asgardian warrior. And seriously she's the one that should have been leader of Asgard, not Valkyrie.

[Anteros]

So I finally saw it today. I have to say that I wasn't expecting this thread to be as whiny as it is, but probably should have since I've been on this forum for a while.

The movie was solid. A bit slow in parts but it was basically everything I expected it to be.

[Lacuna Caster]

There's a lot of combat-competent side characters I didn't see like Agent 13, Kraglin and Phil Coulson, but the only GLARING missing person from the finale was Sif. She was conspicuously absent from Ragnarok and there's no reason she shouldn't have been there as highly trained and skilled Asgardian warrior. And seriously she's the one that should have been leader of Asgard, not Valkyrie.

Yeah, the whole Sif/Jane rivalry thing they had going in Thor 2 really didn't go anywhere, did it?

[LibraryOgre]

That'd have been hard to swing. They were all killed by Hella long before the snap.
...
Also dead.

Howard Stark died 19 years before the first movie.

I'm not saying that these cameos would have been terribly necessary... I mean, really, what's Darcy going to do? Where would you put her? It's just that when you have so many cameos in the movie, you start noting who didn't have them.

(And I don't know about Maria Hill, either. I don't recall seeing her, but she gets her picture in the credits)

[Razade]

Howard Stark died 19 years before the first movie.

I'm not saying that these cameos would have been terribly necessary... I mean, really, what's Darcy going to do? Where would you put her? It's just that when you have so many cameos in the movie, you start noting who didn't have them.

(And I don't know about Maria Hill, either. I don't recall seeing her, but she gets her picture in the credits)

Sure, they could have had cameos when they were on Asgard but honestly...that was the only part of the movie I felt they should have cut. We already got "Thor's wrong about how to be" in Ragnarok when Odin sassed his pants off with the whole "Are you a God of Hammers" line. Black Widow should have had the time spent working through her stuff instead, it'd have made what happened a little more sensible.

Apparently Maria Hill was at the funeral at the end of the movie. She's standing with Thaddeus Ross. Why he was even there (I had to google who it was and I've seen the film twice now) to begin with when almost everyone there hates his guts is beyond me. Why he's standing with Hill is really weird. Why she wasn't with Fury and Marvel is strange.

[Olinser]

So I haven't seen anybody mention it.

But as far as money making, this movie utterly SHATTERED all the previous records.

Worldwide opening? Previous record - Infinity War at $640 million.

Endgame opening worldwide? $1.22 BILLION.

US Domestic total? Previous record - Infinity War at $257 million opening weekend

Endgame? $357 million opening weekend.

Endgame made $38 million domestically ON NON HOLIDAY A MONDAY. (the 2 that had higher Monday grosses barely beat it and were on holiday weekends)

At this point I think finishing north of 3 billion is pretty much assured.

[Anteros]

So I haven't seen anybody mention it.

But as far as money making, this movie utterly SHATTERED all the previous records.

Worldwide opening? Previous record - Infinity War at $640 million.

Endgame opening worldwide? $1.22 BILLION.

US Domestic total? Previous record - Infinity War at $257 million opening weekend

Endgame? $357 million opening weekend.

Endgame made $38 million domestically ON NON HOLIDAY A MONDAY. (the 2 that had higher Monday grosses barely beat it and were on holiday weekends)

At this point I think finishing north of 3 billion is pretty much assured.

It's not really surprising when you consider that this is basically the conclusion of 22 films spanning an entire decade. There's never been anything like it.

I think they did fairly well. Especially considering how high expectations were. This is one of those movies that could easily have fallen short of expectations just because the expectations were so damn high.

[Olinser]

It's not really surprising when you consider that this is basically the conclusion of 22 films spanning an entire decade. There's never been anything like it.

I think they did fairly well. Especially considering how high expectations were. This is one of those movies that could easily have fallen short of expectations just because the expectations were so damn high.

Oh sure, as I said, 9/10, will see again with my father this weekend.

If they'd just adjusted the ending backwards I'd say 10/10.

[Dienekes]

I enjoyed it.

I tried to track who did NOT have a cameo that was relatively important in the earlier movies. My list is

Martin Freeman's character from Black Panther
The Warriors Three
Sif
Odin
Darcy
Selvig

Everyone else, that I can recall, had at least a cameo in the movie.

A few villains didn't get cameo'd including at least one that was still alive: Zemo.

[LibraryOgre]

A few villains didn't get cameo'd including at least one that was still alive: Zemo.

He at least got name-checked.

[Psyren]

So, I just realized something: **** Steve Rogers.

Everything was his fault, he insisted that they stick to his principles and not sacrifice Vision to stop Thanos. Everyone who had to die or watch their loved ones die has him to blame. But atleast he was sticking to his principles... until he decided to peace out and live his happily ever after.

#notmycaptainamerica

No. He and Widow were the only ones who didn't give up on bringing the others back; he earned his happy ending. Sorry if that upsets you.

[Lvl45DM!]

And which one of those principles involves abandoning your allies and messing with timelines?

The one called Love

[Anteros]

He's hardly abandoning anyone anyway. The fight is over. Is he not allowed to retire?

[Delicious Taffy]

He's hardly abandoning anyone anyway. The fight is over. Is he not allowed to retire?

No. He has to keep going forever, or I'll throw internet fits. Who cares if his story is done and he wants to retire? Me want shield boy.

[Chen]

Cap ending

Spoiler

Show

With the director’s clarification that he did all his past stuff with Peggy in an alternate timeline the only thing “wrong” he did was create that alternate timeline. If the MCU follows the multiple worlds approach that tends to imply there are an infinite number of alternate timelines/worlds anyways. Since the future in the alternate timeline with Peggy was unknown anyways he just basically lived out another life there. He could make predictions and affect potentia future events but none of those were guarantees anyways. Say, for example, he destroyed the tesseract back in the 70s. It may have caused future issues but it would also have prevented the battle of new york and it would have prevented an eventual snap. That would be a choice he could have made just as much as he technically could have made that choice in the prime timeline when they had the tesseract. Realistically for the “greater good” even if destroying the tesseract resulted in Earth’s destruction, preventing the killing of half the universe is probably still worth it.

[Talakeal]

No. He has to keep going forever, or I'll throw internet fits. Who cares if his story is done and he wants to retire? Me want shield boy.

Not really. I was really hoping they would have the balls to kill him off.

He's hardly abandoning anyone anyway. The fight is over. Is he not allowed to retire?

I garuntee you there will be another world ending threat in a couple of years. As Harlan Ellison said "There is no buffett in heaven."

No. He and Widow were the only ones who didn't give up on bringing the others back; he earned his happy ending. Sorry if that upsets you.

That was what I thiught upon first seeing the movie.

I didn't like the old man scene as it made it feel like his happy ending was already over and created issues with continuity, but it would have been awesome if it had ended with him in the past.

Then I remembered how him stubbornly sticking to his principles in caused all the problems in the last two movies. He can't have it both ways. It makes him a hypocrite, not a hero.

[Kyberwulf]

Funny how labels work like that. Steve never calls himself a hero, nor does he act like one. He just tried to do what he thought was right.

You are the one trying to make claims on him.

[Talakeal]

Funny how labels work like that. Steve never calls himself a hero, nor does he act like one. He just tried to do what he thought was right.

You are the one trying to make claims on him.

The first sentance of the Captain America article on wikipedia:

"Captain America is a fictional superhero..."


But fine, let me rephrase my oppinion as "Its very disappointing and heartbreaking that one of my favorite heroes turned out to be just some guy whose misguided and inconsistent set of values got a while lot of people killed."