Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

[Mando Knight]

Training. Levelling up stats. That sort of thing.

EVs, IVs, natures, movepool, there's a lot of optimization along those lines in Pokémon, all the way back to Gen 1.

[Saambell]

Training. Levelling up stats. That sort of thing.

Uh, yeah, it has those. Heck, Lets Go has even more then the normal games in that regard.

There's IVs, for Individual Values, which range from 0-31, and for each point your Max Stats at level 100 are increased that much. These are unique to each Pokemon and are set when you first get the Pokemon in the game, and are 90% of what people breed for. 3 or 5 of the combined 12 IV stats pass from Parents to the Egg when you breed a Pokemon. The Goal is to have 31 in all the good stats your Pokemon will use. These are also what the move Hidden Power uses to decide it's type.

There's EVs, for Effort Values, which range from 0-252, and for every 4 points your Max Stats go up by 1. But any one Pokemon can only have 510 EVs, which is enough to max 2 stats. You get these from KOing Pokemon as you level them and each Pokemon gives different EVs when you KO them. So an In Game team will have a wild spread of them. But when you start training up a Pokemon for online, you have to take great care what Pokemon you train against. However, many of the later games have other ways to increase them, sometimes without even having to battle. Also some items increase EVs, and some lower them.

There's Natures, which apply a 1.1 times modifier to one stat, while reducing another stat by 1.1 times modifier, with each nature increasing and lowering different stats. Overall, there's only 16 "good" natures, with a few of much reduced use, and a pile that don't modify the stats at all. These are the other main thing someone will breed for when getting a competitive Pokemon.

These are the primary things "Training Pokemon" involves, and what massively differs a for fun Pokemon from a competitive Pokemon.

Meanwhile in Lets Go, there's additional Candies that raise a Pokemon's stats even higher, which you get from catching Pokemon. These are done in addition to EVs and IVs, but are tracked separately and can be turned off if you want.

Meanwhile for leveling, there's a few things. A traded Pokemon gets more exp then a Pokemon you caught, encouraging trading with friends to get higher leveled Pokemon faster. The Lucky Egg item gives a Pokemon who holds it exp as if they had been traded. these first two things stack. The higher a KOed Pokemon's HP, the more EXP it gives, which makes Blissey a valuable target for leveling.

[Bartmanhomer]

Uh, yeah, it has those. Heck, Lets Go has even more then the normal games in that regard.

There's IVs, for Individual Values, which range from 0-31, and for each point your Max Stats at level 100 are increased that much. These are unique to each Pokemon and are set when you first get the Pokemon in the game, and are 90% of what people breed for. 3 or 5 of the combined 12 IV stats pass from Parents to the Egg when you breed a Pokemon. The Goal is to have 31 in all the good stats your Pokemon will use. These are also what the move Hidden Power uses to decide it's type.

There's EVs, for Effort Values, which range from 0-252, and for every 4 points your Max Stats go up by 1. But any one Pokemon can only have 510 EVs, which is enough to max 2 stats. You get these from KOing Pokemon as you level them and each Pokemon gives different EVs when you KO them. So an In Game team will have a wild spread of them. But when you start training up a Pokemon for online, you have to take great care what Pokemon you train against. However, many of the later games have other ways to increase them, sometimes without even having to battle. Also some items increase EVs, and some lower them.

There's Natures, which apply a 1.1 times modifier to one stat, while reducing another stat by 1.1 times modifier, with each nature increasing and lowering different stats. Overall, there's only 16 "good" natures, with a few of much reduced use, and a pile that don't modify the stats at all. These are the other main thing someone will breed for when getting a competitive Pokemon.

These are the primary things "Training Pokemon" involves, and what massively differs a for fun Pokemon from a competitive Pokemon.

Meanwhile in Lets Go, there's additional Candies that raise a Pokemon's stats even higher, which you get from catching Pokemon. These are done in addition to EVs and IVs, but are tracked separately and can be turned off if you want.

Meanwhile for leveling, there's a few things. A traded Pokemon gets more exp then a Pokemon you caught, encouraging trading with friends to get higher leveled Pokemon faster. The Lucky Egg item gives a Pokemon who holds it exp as if they had been traded. these first two things stack. The higher a KOed Pokemon's HP, the more EXP it gives, which makes Blissey a valuable target for leveling.

Oh wow. That's amazing.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Minor note: Let's Go's AV's (awakening values) are instead of EV's, rather than on top of them. The biggest difference in that EV's have a max amount per stat as well as a max amount in total, and the right tactical move will often be to max out two stats (which let's you spend one single extra 4 EV 'tick' on a third stat). AV's only have a maximum per stat, you can keep training them up until they're all maxed out. The tactical value of the training is greatly diminished.

I have to ask though, how is this all news to you after playing several ladders on Smogon? The system basically begs you to spend EV's.

[SaintRidley]

I have to ask though, how is this all news to you after playing several ladders on Smogon? The system basically begs you to spend EV's.

I see you are new to interacting with Homer. The waters are only a centimeter deep and yet it is possible to drown in them.

[Bartmanhomer]

Minor note: Let's Go's AV's (awakening values) are instead of EV's, rather than on top of them. The biggest difference in that EV's have a max amount per stat as well as a max amount in total, and the right tactical move will often be to max out two stats (which let's you spend one single extra 4 EV 'tick' on a third stat). AV's only have a maximum per stat, you can keep training them up until they're all maxed out. The tactical value of the training is greatly diminished.

I have to ask though, how is this all news to you after playing several ladders on Smogon? The system basically begs you to spend EV's.

I didn't know that. So forgive me if this information is news to me.

[Qwertystop]

When you're putting together a team in any simulator, there's a dozen boxes per mon for exactly this stuff, and then another one for Nature. I, too, am baffled.

[Saambell]

When you're putting together a team in any simulator, there's a dozen boxes per mon for exactly this stuff, and then another one for Nature. I, too, am baffled.

To be fair to him, on Pokemon Showdown IVs are automatically max, and its one button to set EVs and Nature to best for move set. So, for a beginner all he has to do is select a Pokemon, select moves, and push that "auto set EVs and Nature" button without knowing what any of it does. If he's not pushing that button, then it might explain his complaints about things being "too good".

[Qwertystop]

To be fair to him, on Pokemon Showdown IVs are automatically max, and its one button to set EVs and Nature to best for move set. So, for a beginner all he has to do is select a Pokemon, select moves, and push that "auto set EVs and Nature" button without knowing what any of it does. If he's not pushing that button, then it might explain his complaints about things being "too good".

Ah. I haven't used Showdown (or any simulator, really) in a while; either it's new or I forgot about that button.

[SaintRidley]

Shiny Phermosa is mine. Feels good.

[unseenmage]

Someone on my FB feed just called the removal of certain pokemon from future games the Dexit and I'm not sure if I hate it or not.
Please advise.

[tonberrian]

Someone on my FB feed just called the removal of certain pokemon from future games the Dexit and I'm not sure if I hate it or not.
Please advise.

Try the alternative: Pokemon Snap.

[Lord Raziere]

I mean that term has been around for months dude, ever since that cut was first announced. there was even bingo cards for both sides of the debate and people who are mad at gamefreak for it are called "Dexiters". so yeah. thats the internet for you, polarizing and making everything into short team-based labels. so if you don't like it, I advise avoiding it if possible, getting used to it if you can't.

speaking of this topic, the leaks came in

Spoiler: Galar pokedex spoilers, Poke-Thanos snap

Show

here is all the previous pokemon that were cut and all the ones who got in. green squares are in, white squares are out, orange squares have alternate forms:
The reddit thread about it

500 pokemon cut, including every starter line except for Charizard, every legendary pokemon except Mew, no ultra-beasts, no not even the ones from Ultra Sun and Moon.

more than half the pokemon are cut. only 400 will be in the game total, 300 of which are old.

so what were people saying about them taking only a small amount of them out or something? I feel I called this one guys.

[LaZodiac]

Not gonna look at the spoilers since I don't want to be spoiled by leaks, obviously, but a friend who did look at it asked me a question. What pokemon, be it individually or all together, would make me turn on this game for being bad.

I literally could not think of a single one. I love all the pokemon but also I literally do not care. I don't understand how or why people would be upset about this unless they're super into the metagame and feel bad that a lot of their busted OU guys got benched for a season.

[Lord Raziere]

Not gonna look at the spoilers since I don't want to be spoiled by leaks, obviously, but a friend who did look at it asked me a question. What pokemon, be it individually or all together, would make me turn on this game for being bad.

I literally could not think of a single one. I love all the pokemon but also I literally do not care. I don't understand how or why people would be upset about this unless they're super into the metagame and feel bad that a lot of their busted OU guys got benched for a season.

I don't care about the metagame and I'm super-busted up about this. but then again I grew up on the original anime with the "gotta catch 'em all" song and slogan forever stuck in my brain and blood when I was like, 4 or 5. and I actually went out of my way to get them all in gens 6 and 7. different strokes I guess.

[LaZodiac]

I don't care about the metagame and I'm super-busted up about this. but then again I grew up on the original anime with the "gotta catch 'em all" song and slogan forever stuck in my brain and blood when I was like, 4 or 5. and I actually went out of my way to get them all in gens 6 and 7. different strokes I guess.

So did I. They stopped using the catchphrase after Yellow or thereabouts. Not sure how the anime presents it.

Regardless, did you get upset about Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald not being able to have every pokemon in it? Firered and Leafgreen? Why does this even matter, honestly? I don't understand it.

[Manticoran]

Note: This is a rant. No one is going to convince me of something other than what I'm posting below, because this is my truth. I'm not sorry if it isn't your truth.

To me, catching them all in every game isn't important if I had one in a previous game.

I want to have caught every Pokemon. I don't need to have caught Rattata 12 times it's just not that interesting of a Pokemon.

My complaint if anything is I want more newer Pokemon and new forms, and wish we had fewer games where I catch a Ralts or a Riolu or whatever early on and I can't justify taking any of the newer Pokemon in the generation over it with my on my adventure because they're just worse than the ones I've had for the last however many years. Because I admit to being a power gamer to some degree, and I'd very much prefer if the new shiny stuff was pretty much strictly better than the old stuff every generation. Competitive balance just doesn't matter to me.

Also screw getting gyarados again, no gyarados is better than the red one I had in... Whatever gen that was. 2? I never needed another Magikarp again, and it pissed me off every time I run into the eight millionth water territory with a billion tentacools and goldeens and other crap like that.

If they have to go in the game for the people who want to catch them all, put them in the post game that 80% of people never even play and spend the absolute minimum of effort on it so I get a better game in general. No problems with them getting removed entirely.

Pokemon to me is about the adventure I have with the Pokemon, and my individual connection with those pokemon. What pissed me off and made me stop playing Pokemon Go was the encouragement to send so many Pokemon to the farm to get turned into candy to make your other Pokemon better, and to try to get the perfect Charmander or whatever rather than building a relationship and interacting and getting to know my Charmander in particular.

[Lord Raziere]

So did I. They stopped using the catchphrase after Yellow or thereabouts. Not sure how the anime presents it.

Regardless, did you get upset about Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald not being able to have every pokemon in it? Firered and Leafgreen? Why does this even matter, honestly? I don't understand it.

I didn't even know the cut off at the time, and I didn't care about catching them all at the time. I was a child, thought it impossible.and it was impossible, at least for me.

it was only during 6th and 7th gen when the dream was achievable for me that I actually went out and achieved it. and felt happy for it finally being done. and now I have a collection of mons already caught that I don't want to give up. its that simple.

[LaZodiac]

I didn't even know the cut off at the time, and I didn't care about catching them all at the time. I was a child, thought it impossible.and it was impossible, at least for me.

it was only during 6th and 7th gen when the dream was achievable for me that I actually went out and achieved it. and felt happy for it finally being done. and now I have a collection of mons already caught that I don't want to give up. its that simple.

You're not giving them up though...?

[Emmerlaus]

speaking of this topic, the leaks came in

Spoiler: Galar pokedex spoilers, Poke-Thanos snap

Show

here is all the previous pokemon that were cut and all the ones who got in. green squares are in, white squares are out, orange squares have alternate forms:
The reddit thread about it

500 pokemon cut, including every starter line except for Charizard, every legendary pokemon except Mew, no ultra-beasts, no not even the ones from Ultra Sun and Moon.

more than half the pokemon are cut. only 400 will be in the game total, 300 of which are old.

so what were people saying about them taking only a small amount of them out or something? I feel I called this one guys.

Spoiler: Dont read, its about the leaks

Show

Perosnnaly, I was very disappointed in Galarian Rapidash. She has that bitchy look about her... It would have bing better to retain Galarian Ponyta style for the eyes and mouth at the very least. Well, a bitchy Unicorn sound like something funny and could have its own fanbase but still, very different feeling then Galarian Ponyta and it a shame.

Im a big fan of Flapple and Appledun. I hope they are viable somewhat and not just gimmick Pokemon. I cant buy the game this year (no room for a game console or even a TV where I live) but if I did have the room, I woudl still wait tos ee their movepool and abilities. I really hope Flapple has levitate, it would be a shame to look like a superhero with a cape and actually cant fly. If it cannot fly, I think I would go for Appledun.

I really was hoping for another Eevee evolution or at least have Toucannon part of this game. Its one of my favorite. I know, subar competivaly but I play storymode mostly. But I guess I cant complain, so many Pokemon missing anyway

Then again, so many good electric type in this game! I love Galvantula which IS in teh game and that new poison/electric type rocks. I love Grimlins since I saw the movies and he look so cool! But of course, Bolthund is the best dog Pokemon ever! So Im kinda in a dump about it.

The new psudo legendary is a awesome/dragon ghost... I love Ghost type pokemon mixed with other typing. Jellicent, Golurk, etc. This one is based on a stealth bomber and I like it. I feel I would be unworthy of owning one though, when I drop a bomb, its loud but it normally isnt enough to clear a room LOL (sorry for the bad joke)

Overral, Im... mixed on this game. There seem to have some good, some bad, etc...

If I had to make a comment however: STOP HUMANIZING THE STARTER POKEMONS AS SOMETHING MANDATORY!

It would have being so much better to not humanize Sobble like evo! And Rowlet final evo would have being fine as more owlish and not themed after archery too! Let ONE of them be animalistic in last evo!

If they did Canada next for exemple, here would be my recommended starters:

- Something exotic for the plebs. The animal itself is not improtant but must become Fire/Fairy as it evolve, humanized. Maybe Red panda, that sound fun. Raphtalia from Shield hero like ?
- A Grass cow that become a minotaur as it evolve. Fully humanized
- The water one would remain animalistic. I dont know, It could be a Water snake, a Water puppy (sea dog lol), It could even be a water porcupine that looks like a ursin underwater! It would look more and more bear like as it evolve.

Sorry, Im just ranting at this point.

[Lord Raziere]

You're not giving them up though...?

of course I'm not giving them up, that would mean giving them to pokemon home which is just a hostage box to me until proven otherwise, rather keep them in alola where they're safe than pay to keep what I already have.

[LaZodiac]

of course I'm not giving them up, that would mean giving them to pokemon home which is just a hostage box to me until proven otherwise, rather keep them in alola where they're safe than pay to keep what I already have.

I mean... yeah, that's correct.

See I don't see what the issue is here. You've described what a normal person would and will do with this.

[sandmote]

First, I'm upset they haven't just declared My Pokemon Ranch 2 instead of Pokemon Home.

Second, there was a leak about which pokemon made it in, and frankly I hope they actually put in every pokemon from 5th generation onward, and then announce diamond/pearl remakes that will have the rest of the national dex. You know, announce they didn't want people to have nothing while they finished making the new set of future-proof models they are going to replace with new models before it saves them any money.

On to ranting. I want to vent about the bit in the spoiler, and hope the not confirmed stuff is fake.

Spoiler: About leaked new pokemon

Show

Taking the image from here, these look really bad to me.

I like the following: the (confirmed) first stage starters, Thwackey, Corviknight's line, Milcery/Alcremie, Morepeko, Chewtle/Drednaw, Cramorant's line, Sinistea/Polteagiest, Rolycoly, Impadimps' line, the bug types (which hopefully have reasonable stats to compensate for their typing), Clobbopus/Grapploct, Pincurchin, Ideedee, Applin's line, Galarian Ponyta, Galarian Far'fetched/Sir'fetched, Galarian Wheezing, Galarian Corsola, Galarian Stunfisk, Obstagoon's line, and Galarian Darumaka/Darmanitan.

Thwackey's evolution would look a lot better if the two sticks were upgraded to more dangerous looking weapons, instead of a drum. The other starters being humanoid looks bad. Sobble's line should have stayed quadrupedal with water (that the line becomes invisible in) pouring out of it's back in the final stage.

Skwovet should've just been Galarian Pachirisu (still normal type). Evolving into Greedent would still fit, although the evolution would have a nicer niche if it carried an oak sapling it uses for grass and fighting type moves. I'm not against rattata/raticate knockoffs, I just want them to have a recognizable niche the existing ones don't fill.

I know Wooloo is real, but I still don't see what justifies it not simply being Galarian mareep. We already have regional evolutions, so just not having Dubwool/Galarain Flaffy evolve is fine too.

Gossifleur and Eldegoss have each been done twice, by hoppip's, cottonee's and flabebe's lines. Could have simply been Galarian Skiploom/Jumpluff or been based on something else.

Nicket and yamper's lines don't have anything to really distinguish them. Vulpix-Dark and Electrike, really. Might have been better to give Bolthound a secondary type (fire?) and have Thieval as an Electric/Dark type also evolving from Yamper.

I know what Alcremie's gimmick is, so I'm not that annoyed. The same goes from Blipbug's line, but they really should have been a pass taken at making them rounder; we already have porygon and they're too geometric if they aren't from the same origin.

Hattena individually looks too much like kirby, and psychic/fairy types I'm a bit tired of. I would've liked hattrem to be Psychic/Fairy and Hatterine to replace psychic with dark. Not a great solution for "magical girl pokemon," but it would have a more interesting niche.

I wanted Jessie and James to catch the galarian forms of Ekans and Koffing. Seeing Silicobra, my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. Also, no golarian koffing.

I would have preferred Rolycoly's evolutions to look like trains (or at least mine carts) and Copperrajah should have been a samavar.

Toxel should've been a porcupine, with an ability causing paralyzed creatures on the battlefield to take damage (as if also poisoned). It looks like they made the designer sit down and said "it has to be poison/electric and you're not allowed to look up ideas for reference."

Appelin doesn't look like it should be a pseudolegendary. They don't need to do that with every dragon. The same goes for dreepy's line. They could have skipped drakloak, and the size difference of each one carrying their young on their heads would be less weird.

Eiscue is not a pokemon, change my mind. It, Falinks, and the zolt/vish pokemon look like they're from a bootleg version of pokemon.

Golarian meowth should have been it's own pokemon. Leave the galarian forms for stuff that's less popular. Similarly, Golarian Mr Mine is stepping on Jynx's toes instead of doing anything on its own.

Golarian corsola looks like it's based on bleached coral, although I first mistook it for deep sea corals like Lophelia. Beside the unclear name, I would have preferred cursola (presumably from "curse"), to be a larger coral with part of an oil installation's leg sticking out it's back and a ghost/steel type. Instead of a lone giant coral polyp. But again, that's because I got the concept mixed up.

I also would have liked Golarian Yamask/Runigrigus being rock instead of ground type. And giving these pokemon a new name instead of sticking "golarian," in front of the old name rubs me the wrong way, particularly given alolan vulpix already established regional forms had preexisting names before being identified as regional versions of existing Pokemon (it was called Keokeo according to the pokedex).

[Emmerlaus]

I disagree with almost everything sandmote has ebing ranting about but ranting is ranting and each person can have its own opinion lol

But here's something way better then what we had for Sobble's final evolution:

Spoiler: The dream of what it could have being...

Show

If it had being more like that and more monster like instead of "spy" team, it would have being awesome. England is not just know for the Bond movies.

[Bartmanhomer]

I guess we have to come to the conclusion that Pokemon Sword And Shield Game will be terrible since most Pokemon will be cut out the game.

[Seerow]

I guess we have to come to the conclusion that Pokemon Sword And Shield Game will be terrible since most Pokemon will be cut out the game.

I don't think "we" have to make any such decision.


I don't think I have ever had a living dex of every mon ever made in a single game. In fact, if you count the weird legendaries you need to take part in special events after the game launches to get, there's a good dozen or so pokemon I have literally never owned. Despite that, I have still logged literally thousands of hours into pokemon in my life.

You know what I loved in Sun and Moon? That feel of completion each time you caught all of the pokemon in a route and the pokedex would mark that area as complete so I could move on. That was probably the second time (after Red/Blue) I had a complete region dex. Because they made catching the pokemon available from the game both accessible and fun. If Galar has a similar mechanic for its pokedex, I'll gladly go through and catch every pokemon in Galar and have a blast doing it. And never even notice the pokemon that aren't there because if it's not an empty space in my dex, why would I care?

Actually I just looked it up, Sun/Moon had 403 pokemon to catch. Galar being at 400 is hitting that sweet spot that I enjoyed pretty much right on the nose. I am pretty sure it will do just fine. Y'all are free to be upset, but let's try to avoid saying things implying no players will enjoy the game or that the game will be objectively terrible, based on one tiny facet that to many players has no meaning.

[Bartmanhomer]

I don't think "we" have to make any such decision.


I don't think I have ever had a living dex of every mon ever made in a single game. In fact, if you count the weird legendaries you need to take part in special events after the game launches to get, there's a good dozen or so pokemon I have literally never owned. Despite that, I have still logged literally thousands of hours into pokemon in my life.

You know what I loved in Sun and Moon? That feel of completion each time you caught all of the pokemon in a route and the pokedex would mark that area as complete so I could move on. That was probably the second time (after Red/Blue) I had a complete region dex. Because they made catching the pokemon available from the game both accessible and fun. If Galar has a similar mechanic for its pokedex, I'll gladly go through and catch every pokemon in Galar and have a blast doing it. And never even notice the pokemon that aren't there because if it's not an empty space in my dex, why would I care?

Actually I just looked it up, Sun/Moon had 403 pokemon to catch. Galar being at 400 is hitting that sweet spot that I enjoyed pretty much right on the nose. I am pretty sure it will do just fine. Y'all are free to be upset, but let's try to avoid saying things implying no players will enjoy the game or that the game will be objectively terrible, based on one tiny facet that to many players has no meaning.

I understand that and I also understand fitting every single Pokemon in each version isn't an easy task but still: Don't cut off any Pokemon in your game so people can still buy your product.

[Seerow]

I understand that and I also understand fitting every single Pokemon in each version isn't an easy task but still: Don't cut off any Pokemon in your game so people can still buy your product.

There is plenty of pokemon in the game to make a playable game. They are not making it so that nobody can buy the game. If you choose not to buy it due to an obstinant refusal to accept a game without every pokemon ever made, that is a you problem, not a Game Freak problem.

[Bartmanhomer]

There is plenty of pokemon in the game to make a playable game. They are not making it so that nobody can buy the game. If you choose not to buy it due to an obstinant refusal to accept a game without every pokemon ever made, that is your problem, not a Game Freak problem.

Well lucky for me. I'm not going to buy Pokemon Sword and Shield and I'm glad I'm not going to buy it because the only game that I used to play is Generation 1 and Pokemon Showdown Let's Go. So I guess that a win-win for me anyway. Besides most of these Pokemon are so unoriginal anyway with a few Pokemon exceptions of course.

[sandmote]

I disagree with almost everything sandmote has ebing ranting about but ranting is ranting and each person can have its own opinion lol

...

If it had being more like that and more monster like instead of "spy" team, it would have being awesome. England is not just know for the Bond movies.

Thank you for being polite about it. Although I still prefer the idea of a comforting mother figure for baby sobble to rest on/hide in. Maybe read too much into the "sob" part of the name.

I guess we have to come to the conclusion that Pokemon Sword And Shield Game will be terrible since most Pokemon will be cut out the game.

I don't think they're going to be terrible. They're starting to catch up to newer RPG conventions, and they had to drop the national dex sometime.

I'm mostly upset because I've taken to playing through the new games with only new pokemon, and there hasn't been much that catches my interest this time around. It looks like half my team would be filler for quite a while.