Lowkey Afraid of Killing my Players?

[lawfulgay]

So, I've been running a campaign of Call of Cthulhu for a few months now.
My players have been playing pretty smart and/or lucky, and none of the players have died yet (though we have had a few close calls)

That's where the problem lies. I'm now almost scared of actually killing my player characters. Some of my players are so confident that they have been saying that they are "practically invincible" and that I won't kill them.

The next session I have planned is a bit tougher than normal, a lot more encounters and higher level threats. I'm afraid that the inevitable is going to happen and a player character is going to die and I will be blamed for it and my players will be pissed off at me.

This is a dumb worry but my players have gotten THAT confident that they won't die, and idk how I would actually handle a player getting upset that their character dies.

[OldTrees1]

This concern is understandable but it sounds worse than it is.

Eventually a player character will die. At that point the player will be disappointed for a bit and you will feel guilty for a bit. The player will realize that sometimes the dice fall that way (especially since it took this long for it to happen). You will stop feeling guilty (especially since it took this long for it to happen). And it will be easier the 2nd time.

[AMFV]

You don't have to kill them. You can always run a game where they don't die and the worst that happens is that they're rendered unconscious and recover later. It's not really in the spirit of a CoC game, but if you've run multiple sessions of a CoC game without character death, then you're already running a non-standard CoC game, and that's fine. I mean I would talk to the players about it before next session and see if they're enjoying the feeling of invincibility, in which case, I'd just keep it right up, or if they want more of a challenge. I would do that, since you don't seem to relish killing them, and if they're bragging about being invincible then they might be having fun with it. GM Rule Number 1: If the players are having fun, don't f- with s- in the game. If it ain't broke don't mess with it.

[hymer]

A few weeks ago, I threw a beholder into the path of the PCs. I warned the players very clearly first: This is the most dangerous stat block you have encountered so far. You know where it is. Prepare accordingly, because this thing is a killer.

In your case, before the session starts, I'd simply tell the players: I expect this is going to be harder than what you've seen so far. And if they get upset, tell them you warned them.

All that said, you may want to have a genuine conversation with the players. Maybe they just prefer easy?

[TheFamilarRaven]

If they get mad at you, just recount all the decisions they made to get them to the point where they died. If as a GM you play out the scenario as per the how the NPCs would naturally react and how the dice fell, then nothing is your fault. I'd say a good portion of PC deaths are cause by simple bad decisions. And if they do die, just remind them that the system itself is designed be lethal and the fact that they've survived this long was an oddity.

You can always do the classic "are you sure you want to do that?" line. This usually tips the players off that things may not go their way, so they might be better prepared when/if they bite the dust.

However, as AMFV said, if everyone is having fun (including yourself), then there is no need to change anything about your game.

[Koo Rehtorb]

If you're worried about people dying in CoC you're playing the wrong game.

[Pippa the Pixie]

Let them die.

If they get upset....oh well.

If they really cry a lot, you might recomend that they only play games with no ''HP" or concept of ''Life". Like the games made for the Y7 crowd.

I recomend Shutes and Ladders.

[Mr Beer]

You should never kill your players, that's just bad GM-ing.

It's OK to let the dice fall and kill the characters though, especially in CoC.

[Talakeal]

I would explain that CoC is a high lethality game and warn them that while you have been going easy on them in the past due to their beginner status, you feel that they are now ready to "play with the training wheels off" and start playing the game as intended, i.e. death is common, especially when the players are careless.

Or, if they are actually happy playing without the risk of death, just run the game on comic book logic so that anyone who is killed is instead just knocked out.

[LudicSavant]

I wish less DMs would be afraid of killing their characters, personally.

[Zhorn]

It is a fine balance to find, to be sure.
You do want the players to be aware that character death is a real possibility, mostly because lose-conditions are needed to give the victories a sense of meaning.

Had my first character death the other week in the game I'm currently running. A few of the players this is their first foray into 5e (haven't asked about d&d as a whole, but it could be), and on finding out I'm willing to let the dice coup de grace the PC's, tactics had a sudden shift.
They were now aware of their mortality. Which is great because I've a dragon encounter coming up in the next couple of weeks and I want it to have impact.

[LordCdrMilitant]

I would also say that while CoC is lethal, a greater focus should be placed on SAN loss than on combat death. I don't really see it as being super fighty in nature [IIRC, there's even a comment about how it's still illegal to kick in the door and shoot cultists], but encounters with the eldritch, even if they live, should result in their sanity slipping a lot more.

[lawfulgay]

OP here.
I'm definitely not against killing my players, and this was never going to be a no death campaign.

Like I've said, the players have had a few close calls. One of my players was almost killed by a serpent person, she only had about 2 HP left and probably would have died if another played hadn't killed the serpent person before it had a chance.

After it happened, I was met with anger by this player, with them not shutting up the rest of the session about how I almost killed them and how mad they would have been if they had died.

The next module I have planned is very heavy, lots of action and chances of death, and while I dont want to upset my players, it is Call of Cthulhu and I had tried to tell them before that character death is likely.

[AMFV]

You're probably fine then. I would probably have something happen, like a major NPC death or something to indicate that stuff is getting real. So that way the players don't feel like it's a sudden change, but if they've come close before, they probably won't.

[Glorthindel]

OP here.
I'm definitely not against killing my players, and this was never going to be a no death campaign.

Like I've said, the players have had a few close calls. One of my players was almost killed by a serpent person, she only had about 2 HP left and probably would have died if another played hadn't killed the serpent person before it had a chance.

After it happened, I was met with anger by this player, with them not shutting up the rest of the session about how I almost killed them and how mad they would have been if they had died.

The next module I have planned is very heavy, lots of action and chances of death, and while I dont want to upset my players, it is Call of Cthulhu and I had tried to tell them before that character death is likely.

My advice is sometimes you just have to get it over with.

If you know they will get angry, and will throw a tantrum and blame you... you just have to steel yourself for it, and do it. You need to follow through, let the tantrum happen, and stand firm. Sure, the session it happens in will probably be a write-off, so be prepared to call the session early to give the player a chance to cool off and get over it. It will be hard, but you need to stand firm, deflect his complaints as the unreasonable comments they are, and be clear he was not targetted, there was no bending of the rules going on on your side of the table, its just something that can happen, and they will have to be willing to accept that. Be clear this can and will happen, and the players have got to get the possibility in their heads. Its going to be a tough session, but once its done, and you are out the other side, with the players expectations more in-line with yours, you will have a much happier time without this oppressive cloud hanging over your head.

Good luck

[Arbane]

If they think death is the WORST thing that can happen to them in Call of Cthulhu, you're definitely playing too easy.

"Well technically, your character isn't dead. At least their brain isn't. It's just on its way to Pluto in a can."

(I kid, as long as everyone's enjoying it, no harm is done. Even in Lovecraft's own stories, plenty of his protagonists survived their stories.)

[Max_Killjoy]

I think I'd try to avoid killing the players.

Their characters however are fair game in the typical CofC campaign.

[Talakeal]

OP here.
I'm definitely not against killing my players, and this was never going to be a no death campaign.

Like I've said, the players have had a few close calls. One of my players was almost killed by a serpent person, she only had about 2 HP left and probably would have died if another played hadn't killed the serpent person before it had a chaince.

After it happened, I was met with anger by this player, with them not shutting up the rest of the session about how I almost killed them and how mad they would have been if they had died.

The next module I have planned is very heavy, lots of action and chances of death, and while I dont want to upset my players, it is Call of Cthulhu and I had tried to tell them before that character death is likely.

It doesn't sound like this guy is on board with CoC, and will probably be a problem player in any system. Change games, change attitudes, and if it is possible comsider finding a new player.

[The Kool]

Yeah, I agree with Talakeal here. This guy does not want the same game you have put him into, and has already objected to it. Here's what I would do:

Warn him that death is a very real possibility, it has almost happened already, it will come close again, and you won't be pulling punches.
Remind him that this is CoC, you warned them at the start, and he signed up for this.
Continue on. If it happens, it happens.
If the player throws a fit, kindly ask him to leave. He is causing strife and detracting from the game that everyone else is having a good time with. Perhaps he can join next time, if you can agree on a game that's more his speed.

[MrSandman]

OP here.
I'm definitely not against killing my players, and this was never going to be a no death campaign.

Like I've said, the players have had a few close calls. One of my players was almost killed by a serpent person, she only had about 2 HP left and probably would have died if another played hadn't killed the serpent person before it had a chance.

After it happened, I was met with anger by this player, with them not shutting up the rest of the session about how I almost killed them and how mad they would have been if they had died.

The next module I have planned is very heavy, lots of action and chances of death, and while I dont want to upset my players, it is Call of Cthulhu and I had tried to tell them before that character death is likely.

As others have said, isn't the whole point of CoC to have your characters go insane and/or die? It is supposed to be a horror game after all.

Now, if your players don't like the idea of losing their characters, then you'd probably be better off playing something else. There are plenty of games out there where playing characters aren't supposed to die.

[Mordar]

If they think death is the WORST thing that can happen to them in Call of Cthulhu, you're definitely playing too easy.

"Well technically, your character isn't dead. At least their brain isn't. It's just on its way to Pluto in a can."

(I kid, as long as everyone's enjoying it, no harm is done. Even in Lovecraft's own stories, plenty of his protagonists survived their stories.)

Hey, to be fair, at least 50% of the brains in cans *wanted* to be brains in cans so they could go to Pluto.

Additionally, I'd say lots of his story had at least one protagonist that survived. After all, we wouldn't know the stories otherwise (given the penchant for first-person or near-first-person storytelling that HPL frequently employed).

As others have said, isn't the whole point of CoC to have your characters go insane and/or die? It is supposed to be a horror game after all.

Now, if your players don't like the idea of losing their characters, then you'd probably be better off playing something else. There are plenty of games out there where playing characters aren't supposed to die.

No, no, no, a million times no. The whole point is for the characters/players to struggle against minions of/servants of/harbingers of nigh-incomprehensible terrors, fight to save the world (or at least themselves) from a horrific end and try to find some semblance of normalcy in a world that is no longer normal because they have seen behind the curtain. *That's* what makes it a horror game, at least to me.

The pervasive attitude of character death/insanity as a glorified inevitability completely undermines the opportunity for the game to really provide the suspense, terror and horror that, when run optimally, can deliver. If everyone goes into it expecting character loss at every turn then there is seldom investiture in the characters and it becomes just another video game (but in paper format).

Your second point, though, is absolutely spot on. CoC isn't a "kid-gloves" game, or a resurrection game. Players should know and buy in that it is has the potential for high-lethality (in whatever form) and that second chances are a rarity. That helps amplify the tension without bringing on the video-game mentality, again IMO.

- M

[Arbane]

No, no, no, a million times no. The whole point is for the characters/players to struggle against minions of/servants of/harbingers of nigh-incomprehensible terrors, fight to save the world (or at least themselves) from a horrific end and try to find some semblance of normalcy in a world that is no longer normal because they have seen behind the curtain. *That's* what makes it a horror game, at least to me.

The pervasive attitude of character death/insanity as a glorified inevitability completely undermines the opportunity for the game to really provide the suspense, terror and horror that, when run optimally, can deliver. If everyone goes into it expecting character loss at every turn then there is seldom investiture in the characters and it becomes just another video game (but in paper format).

Your second point, though, is absolutely spot on. CoC isn't a "kid-gloves" game, or a resurrection game. Players should know and buy in that it is has the potential for high-lethality (in whatever form) and that second chances are a rarity. That helps amplify the tension without bringing on the video-game mentality, again IMO.

Well put.

Except resurrection IS possible in CoC. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it IS possible...

[Mordar]

Well put.

Except resurrection IS possible in CoC. That doesn't mean it's a good idea, but it IS possible...

Isn't that more...reanimation? On a related note, this. One wonders if "Nenad Sesten" is somehow code for Herbert West...

- M

[LordCdrMilitant]

As others have said, isn't the whole point of CoC to have your characters go insane and/or die? It is supposed to be a horror game after all.

Now, if your players don't like the idea of losing their characters, then you'd probably be better off playing something else. There are plenty of games out there where playing characters aren't supposed to die.

I definitely think that character death undermines part of the point of Call of Cthulhu; but insanity is a major component. Knowing the truth drives people insane, and is a core part of the horror of the setting.

People dying left and right is better suited to games about action and tactics, IMO.

[Arbane]

Isn't that more...reanimation? On a related note, this. One wonders if "Nenad Sesten" is somehow code for Herbert West...

- M

Some cultists trying to reverse-engineer Mi-Go brain-canister tech?

[Mordar]

Some cultists trying to reverse-engineer Mi-Go brain-canister tech?

I still want to go the Reanimator route, but I could buy a little bit of Whisperer in Darkness as well.

- M