What plot twist most disappointed you?

[2D8HP]

So what you're saying is we need to talk a lot more about Parliament Funkadelic, the council of funk?

And groovallegiance to one nation under a groove?

This is wise, after all if you free your mind...
...will follow.

We want the Funk!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That is, if Hel is telling them the truth and won't just abandon them, a reasonably likely outcome, given the gods go as far as to erase outsiders' memories to avoid spoiling the old worlds to the new ones...

Well, it is Hel, who is a LE entity. I don't think she'd outright lie to them, I do think she would be happy to let them pop over to Hel for the iterorbis period. Whether she lets them keep their memories into the new world, that is something she might not have promised. Nor that there will be a place for vampires in the new world.

That said, she also has no reason not to fulfill her side of the bargain. It'd give her powerful high priests in the new world immediately, whereas all the other gods would have to start from scratch with level 1, or whatever the new world has as Adam-like adults.

Grey Wolf

[Emanick]

That is, if Hel is telling them the truth and won't just abandon them, a reasonably likely outcome, given the gods go as far as to erase outsiders' memories to avoid spoiling the old worlds to the new ones...

I wouldn’t put it past Hel to do that if it benefited her, but high-level followers are useful. She’d probably be happy to receive at least the full vampires, if not the vampire spawn.

Although you make a good point that they’d be at risk of having their memories wiped. They’re not technically outsiders, but perhaps the memory wipe affects all non-deities on the Inner and Outer Planes, not just those with the Outsider (and Elemental?) subtype.

Edit: Ninja’d by Grey Wolf to a remarkably similar degree, I see.

[Peelee]

Certainly a funky proposal...but maybe?

That was surprisingly good. Same for the original; he's no George Clinton, but he definitely brought the funk.

And groovallegiance to one nation under a groove?

This is wise, after all if you free your mind...
...will follow.

We want the Funk!

In bassline we trust!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Although you make a good point that they’d be at risk of having their memories wiped.

Heck, if I was one of these vampires, I'd sign up for a memory erasure in exchange for lording a new world in an eye blink. They have, what, a week's worth of proper memories, if that? And a bunch of memories from the body they took over, half of which make no sense to them? Not much of a cost to become king in a new world.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

All hail the mighty Banana!

[Emanick]

Heck, if I was one of these vampires, I'd sign up for a memory erasure in exchange for lording a new world in an eye blink. They have, what, a week's worth of proper memories, if that? And a bunch of memories from the body they took over, half of which make no sense to them? Not much of a cost to become king in a new world.

Grey Wolf

Good point. I hadn't considered the fact that, for a vampire, the memory wipe might have extra advantages.

So how would that work for the host? If Hel's plan had gone off without a hitch, would Durkon remain trapped in his own body, but with no memories of anything and nothing to meaningfully differentiate himself from the spirit in control of him? I suppose there'd be nothing to stop him from being Evil too, then. Bizarre.

[Jasdoif]

So how would that work for the host? If Hel's plan had gone off without a hitch, would Durkon remain trapped in his own body, but with no memories of anything and nothing to meaningfully differentiate himself from the spirit in control of him? I suppose there'd be nothing to stop him from being Evil too, then. Bizarre.

Well, if "eternal dormancy" starts once the vampire absorbs all the memories, my best guess would be that it applies regardless of why there's no more memories to absorb.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Good point. I hadn't considered the fact that, for a vampire, the memory wipe might have extra advantages.

To be clear, I don't consider them so much advantages as a relatively minor cost for a neophyte vampire. Same difference as if you are asked to pay "you life savings" when you are a fund trust baby vs if you only have $14 in the bank.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

The host's memories are useful though, as Durkon*'s breadown would have happened all the same if he had witnessed some doing something of the same nature as Sigdi's sacrifice in meatspace unless he had already processed Durkon's memory fully. Of course that's unlikely to happen in Hel and over there he'd have time to make his own.

[Doctor West]

Reading this thread, it suddenly occurred to me that Hel-the-place is likely to be a bit short on the blood of living mortals for a vampire to feed on during the interim period.

[Darth Paul]

Edit: Ninja’d by Grey Wolf to a remarkably similar degree, I see.

They do that a lot. I suspect Grey Wolf of secretly being a High Ninja. Not that they'll ever admit it.

[Aspheric]

Reading this thread, it suddenly occurred to me that Hel-the-place is likely to be a bit short on the blood of living mortals for a vampire to feed on during the interim period.

Not if she were to gain a tremendous influx of souls who died dishonourably from ending the previous world, which is her whole plan. I assume any vampires that plane shift to Hel-the-place would be able to drink from them, or otherwise survive with Hel's assistance.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Reading this thread, it suddenly occurred to me that Hel-the-place is likely to be a bit short on the blood of living mortals for a vampire to feed on during the interim period.

I hear there is a cleric spell for that

Grey Wolf

[D.One]

Reading this thread, it suddenly occurred to me that Hel-the-place is likely to be a bit short on the blood of living mortals for a vampire to feed on during the interim period.

That's an excellent point. In fact, Hel-the-Place and all other Godly Realms and Outer Planes will have mostly souls, not living mortals with the blood the vampires need. Unless someone goes for some "Create Blood" spell, and I think that would be a huge game-changer for vampires forever.

[RatElemental]

That's an excellent point. In fact, Hel-the-Place and all other Godly Realms and Outer Planes will have mostly souls, not living mortals with the blood the vampires need. Unless someone goes for some "Create Blood" spell, and I think that would be a huge game-changer for vampires forever.

Assuming of course that vampires actually physically need the blood rather than being supernaturally compelled to drink it just for funzies.

[Resileaf]

Assuming of course that vampires actually physically need the blood rather than being supernaturally compelled to drink it just for funzies.

It depends on the setting, but I think vampires become unhinged if they spend time unfed with fresh blood.

[RatElemental]

It depends on the setting, but I think vampires become unhinged if they spend time unfed with fresh blood.

In DND, according to Libris Mortis, a vampire does indeed become more and more animalistic and unable to control themselves the longer they go without... Draining levels with their touch. They actually do straight up need blood, but the worst that will happen is they'll lose the ability to move until someone trickles some blood into their mouth.

[D.One]

In DND, according to Libris Mortis, a vampire does indeed become more and more animalistic and unable to control themselves the longer they go without... Draining levels with their touch. They actually do straight up need blood, but the worst that will happen is they'll lose the ability to move until someone trickles some blood into their mouth.

Yeah, they need to do both, in order to avoid Wisdow damage (becoming a almost mindless ravenous beast) in a few days, and need the blood to not become letargic and losing all mobility in 3d6 months.

Being fed restores them, but if there's no blood to feed them...

[Fyraltari]

Seeing as souls can kill and be killed by adventurers from the prime and be afflicted by Hel’s diseases, they might just have blood too.

[D.One]

Seeing as souls can kill and be killed by adventurers from the prime and be afflicted by Hel’s diseases, they might just have blood too.

Undeads and constructs can also be killed (sort of, destroyed, actually), and they don't have the needed blood. I'd say (but that's my speculation, based on how things usually work on DnD) that souls hve no blood because they are... souls. That said, all of this is probably pointless discussion that won't really have an effect on the story, but when has something like that stopped us before?

[Fyraltari]

Undeads and constructs can also be killed (sort of, destroyed, actually), and they don't have the needed blood. I'd say (but that's my speculation, based on how things usually work on DnD) that souls hve no blood because they are... souls. That said, all of this is probably pointless discussion that won't really have an effect on the story, but when has something like that stopped us before?

I mean they aren’t incorporeal, they have a body in some form that can interact with a Plane Shifted living mortal. And they can get sick. As far as I am aware undead and constructs can’t. Is there a bloodless creature in in D&D that is not immune to illness?

[Jasdoif]

Yeah, they need to do both, in order to avoid Wisdow damage (becoming a almost mindless ravenous beast) in a few days, and need the blood to not become letargic and losing all mobility in 3d6 months.

Being fed restores them, but if there's no blood to feed them...

The An overcomplicated answer is that maybe the gods do planeshift the mortals off the world...into an infinite demiplane, where this time they'll struggle to survive undead attacks during the night even before Hel's vampires get involved. Basically she'll be running a hardcore Minecraft server while she waits for the her next world.

The boring answer is that bloodbag imps (probably) exist, take nonlethal damage when a creature drinks their blood, and have regeneration to remove the nonlethal damage as they take it; one could theoretically feed vampires indefinitely.

---

I mean they aren’t incorporeal, they have a body in some form that can interact with a Plane Shifted living mortal. And they can get sick. As far as I am aware undead and constructs can’t. Is there a bloodless creature in in D&D that is not immune to illness?

Oozes are immune to poison, but not to disease; and I'm fairly sure most of them don't have blood. For example:

[Peelee]

The boring answer is that bloodbag imps (probably) exist, take nonlethal damage when a creature drinks their blood, and have regeneration to remove the nonlethal damage as they take it; one could theoretically feed vampires indefinitely.

Note to self, have army of bloodbag imps in next campaign. Not for vampires or anything, just blood-filled martial water balloons to throw at the players.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Note to self, have army of bloodbag imps in next campaign. Not for vampires or anything, just blood-filled martial water balloons to throw at the players.

ohylaxtrt's army will truly be a sight to behold.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

ohylaxtrt's army will truly be a sight to behold.

Grey Wolf

Dammit, not fast enough!

[Jasdoif]

Note to self, have army of bloodbag imps in next campaign. Not for vampires or anything, just blood-filled martial water balloons to throw at the players.

Note to Peelee: they appear in Fiend Folio, and the only specific adjustment given by the 3.0->3.5 update booklet is that their damage reduction is "5/silver or good". They're primarily intended for healing other creatures by letting them drink their blood, which is...fairly gross sounding. But it would give bonus meaning to anyone exclaiming "Ohylaxtrt's army is gonna be sick".

[Peelee]

The boring answer is that bloodbag imps (probably) exist, take nonlethal damage when a creature drinks their blood, and have regeneration to remove the nonlethal damage as they take it; one could theoretically feed vampires indefinitely.

Note to self, have army of bloodbag imps in next campaign. Not for vampires or anything, just blood-filled martial water balloons to throw at the players.

[Jannoire]

Damn it... Now I'm imagining my players capturing these creatures and turning them into slingshot ammunition for a fantasy paintball match.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Note to self, have army of bloodbag imps in next campaign. Not for vampires or anything, just blood-filled martial water balloons to throw at the players.

Note to self, have army of bloodbag imps in next campaign. Not for vampires or anything, just blood-filled martial water balloons to throw at the players.

There seems to have been a glitch in the Matrix.

Grey Wolf