Sigdi vs. O-Chul

[MartianInvader]

No, not in a physical fight (unless you think Sigdi stands a chance, in which case I guess we could argue).

The thing is, I've got a Goodometer here by my computer, which measures how Good someone is. And next to it I've got a badassometer. They've always been calibrated to measure in micrO-Chuls.

So far, no one has gone above a million on either device. But after these last few comics, well... Does anyone think Sigdi has surpassed O-Chul, and claimed his #1 title in either Goodness or Badassery?

[Mightymosy]

No, I don't think so. O-Chul has been through some VEEEEEERY serious stuff for a very long time.
Sigdi is tough enough, but in comparison I'd give it to O-Chul right now.
But on the other hand I am glad that Sigdi didn't HAVE to go through the kind of torture O-Chul had to, so there's that. Maybe she could have endured just as well? Good that I don't find out!!

[factotum]

Not really, no. O-Chul spent months being physically tortured and yet never lost his will to survive. As far as we're aware, Sigdi, cool as she is, has never been through the same.

[Wizard_Lizard]

O-chul.
He is a PALADIN.
and hd is tge most badass cool and good person in the ootscerse.
Sigdi is cool and all but doesn't even come close.

[zimmerwald1915]

Not really, no. O-Chul spent months being physically tortured and yet never lost his will to survive. As far as we're aware, Sigdi, cool as she is, has never been through the same.

O-Chul was never dismembered, and also never carried or birthed a child, which is torturous enough. O-Chul also did not give of himself for others, he merely endured torment. Finally, O-Chul seems to have come by his Goodness due to how he was raised, while as far as we know, Sigdi is the way she is purely because of her own will.

[Mightymosy]

Ok, these are good points.

[Peelee]

O-Chul also did not give of himself for others

Isn't a theme of Scar self-sacrifice? "Hurt me instead of that innocent person?"

Also, the childbirth thing can be swingy. I was all prepared for the screaming and the iron vice grip and the hours on end, and then my wife just did breath-breath-splorch and bam! Baby.

[D.One]

No, not in a physical fight (unless you think Sigdi stands a chance, in which case I guess we could argue).

The thing is, I've got a Goodometer here by my computer, which measures how Good someone is. And next to it I've got a badassometer. They've always been calibrated to measure in micrO-Chuls.

So far, no one has gone above a million on either device. But after these last few comics, well... Does anyone think Sigdi has surpassed O-Chul, and claimed his #1 title in either Goodness or Badassery?

And after these considerations, I think it's a fair compromise to call your system of measurement for goodness and badassery The Sidgi/O-Chul Scale.

I've put Sidgi's name first only for the sound of it, not reflecting any considerations about who would be higher on the scale.

[KorvinStarmast]

O-Chul was never dismembered

Sigdi was never dropped in a vat of acid with a shark. *shrug*

, and also never carried or birthed a child

True.

O-Chul also did not give of himself for others

False. See GDGU for details. In fact, his commitment to selfless service is a core part of his personality. He and Sigdi are very similar in that regard, even if they got there via a different route.

Finally, O-Chul seems to have come by his Goodness due to how he was raised, while as far as we know, Sigdi is the way she is purely because of her own will.

That's based on a series of bad assumptions.

You make an assumption (with no basis) that Sigdi was not the beneficiary of being raised well, and yet we see that Durkon being raised well, by Sigdi, informs his personality. I find your assumption groundless. I will offer that a more useful assumption is that she was raised well herself, and learned from that.

Sigdi and O'Chul: Kindred Spirits.

[Peelee]

That's based on a series of bad assumptions.

Dammit, I missed a chance to say "assumes facts not in evidence"!

[KorvinStarmast]

Dammit, I missed a chance to say "assumes facts not in evidence"!

I should have said that, but didn't. Arrgh.

[zimmerwald1915]

Dammit, I missed a chance to say "assumes facts not in evidence"!

You still could, as it is in fact KorvinStarmast who assumes facts not in evidence. Prior to seeing O-Chul's family, we could just as easily have said he came by his Goodness by his own will too - but we did see his family, and we know that he credits his "aunt" for his character. We have seen nothing of how Sigdi was raised; she could have emerged fully-formed from the head of Zeus (okay, not OOTS-Zeus, it's an expression) for all we know.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

she could have emerged fully-formed from the head of Zeus (okay, not OOTS-Zeus, it's an expression) for all we know.

"Could have" is a far cry from your original assertion "Sigdi is the way she is purely because of her own will." (emphasis mine)

You don't know that she is that way due to her own will, and thus bringing it up is indeed assuming a fact not in evidence.

Grey Wolf

[D.One]

You still could, as it is in fact KorvinStarmast who assumes facts not in evidence. Prior to seeing O-Chul's family, we could just as easily have said he came by his Goodness by his own will too - but we did see his family, and we know that he credits his "aunt" for his character. We have seen nothing of how Sigdi was raised; she could have emerged fully-formed from the head of Zeus (okay, not OOTS-Zeus, it's an expression) for all we know.

Sidgi was forged from the rocks and metals from the earth.

[KorvinStarmast]

zim: O'Chul's background/childhood/family life is addressed in Good Deeds Gone Unpunished. No assumptions needed.

[The Pilgrim]

O-Chul was never dismembered, and also never carried or birthed a child, which is torturous enough.

Being pregnant and giving birth doesn't necessary makes you a better person.

[Fyraltari]

Zim, you forget that O-Chul was raised by two different families. He chose whose principles to take to heart.

Sidgi was forged from the rocks and metals from the earth.

Sigdi is the eighth dwarf molded by Aulë the Smith.

[zimmerwald1915]

He chose whose principles to take to heart.

The more recent one, who had him for longer, and who got him when he was still young and plastic. That is hardly a free choice.

[HerbieRAI]

I don't think Sidgi is to O-chul's level yet, but that may be due to her low appearance count. O-chul has just been in our view longer. and has another book to demonstrate his goodness and badassery

Also, the childbirth thing can be swingy. I was all prepared for the screaming and the iron vice grip and the hours on end, and then my wife just did breath-breath-splorch and bam! Baby.

I take it your wife isn't on this forum? If she is you are a braver man than I.

[Fyraltari]

The more recent one, who had him for longer, and who got him when he was still young and plastic. That is hardly a free choice.

Because, as we all know, every child end up exactly like their parents raise them to?

[zimmerwald1915]

Because, as we all know, every child end up exactly like their parents raise them to?

Yes, every child ends up exactly how their parents raise them. Maybe not how their parents intended them to end up, but exactly how they were actually raised.

[Peelee]

I take it your wife isn't on this forum? If she is you are a braver man than I.

She's not, but we both joke about that. Easiest childbirth ever.

[Fyraltari]

Yes, every child ends up exactly how their parents raise them. Maybe not how their parents intended them to end up, but exactly how they were actually raised.

Congratulations on admitting that Sigdi ended up exactly as she was raised and had no more choice in this than O-Chul.

[zimmerwald1915]

Congratulations on admitting that Sigdi ended up exactly as she was raised and had no more choice in this than O-Chul.

An acceptable tradeoff for getting you to admit free will is a mirage.

[Fyraltari]

An acceptable tradeoff for getting you to admit free will is a mirage.

Joke’s on you, I’m a compatibilist.

[Peelee]

An acceptable tradeoff for getting you to admit free will is a mirage.

Not much of an accomplishment, since they had no choice in the matter.

[Fyraltari]

Not much of an accomplishment, since they had no choice in the matter.

I and what army?

[Peelee]

I and what army?

National motto of France? I kid, of course.

[Fyraltari]

National motto of France? I kid, of course.

Beats ‘‘In gun we trust’’.
So do I. Also, I know the actual motto is the other one.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

National motto of France?

Beats one taken from a salad recipe.
Yeah, yeah, that's the old one. But the new one is too political
Grey Wolf