Noob Bladesinger advice

[Mikaleus]

Hello everyone.

Looking for advice on a level 2 Bladesinger. High elf.

Currently in a group consisting of
2 human rogues
1 human ranger
1 dwarf barbarian
1 Dragonborn sorcerer

My D&d experience is a campaign Ancients paladin, a single session level 3 Druid and a 17 Forge Cleric oneshot.

Wizard is a new class for me and one I’ve wanted to play for some time. I’m a little stuck on what to do to best support / compliment my party, so any advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[dejarnjc]

Just always keep a spell slot available to cast shield, use your bladesong, and then get in there and mix it up with the martial characters. Assuming you have a 16 in DEX and a 16 in INT and studded leather armor, your AC should be 18 during combat with bladesong up and 23 AC with shield. That's incredibly hard for creatures you'll be fighting at your level (mostly CR 1/8, CR 1/4, and CR 1/2) to hit outside of a critical hit and is pretty difficult for even most CR 1 monsters to hit.

So get your bladesong up, get into the thick of things and taunt enemies and laugh as your DM looks crestfallen that his mobs can't hit you at all.

Granted, if you get critically hit you're probably going down but that's the fun of being a bladesinger!!



Alternatively you could just sit in the backrow, keep your bladesong up and fire away at enemies with a light crossbow, utilizing control spells when you see fit, but that won't help your party as much as drawing some aggro.

[Frozenstep]

Bladesingers can be played in many different ways. You can be a standard wizard, except with high AC/faster movement/better concentration saving throws, or you could play a wizard who throws out something to control the battlefield first then runs in alongside teammates with melee attacks, or you can focus purely on enhancing your own effectiveness in melee.

Between blade song and shield, your AC is sky high, but critical hits will destroy you until you can pick up song of defense. Depending on how you play, you may eventually find yourself moving away from a melee style if you're not committed to it.

Are the two rogues and a ranger planning on staying back and shooting arrows? Being a controller with spells like web might be best so they can get their sneak attacks and stay out of reach of the enemy. If they're planning on being in the thick of the action, you may find yourself having trouble avoiding friendly fire, so either spells that let you specific targets (slow) or going with enhancing yourself might be better option.

If you plan on controlling the battlefield, look at grease, web, slow, and hypnotic pattern.

If you plan to enhance yourself to do melee and draw aggro, look at booming blade, shadow blade, mirror image, blur, and haste.

[Man_Over_Game]

To add on what the previous posters have said, remember that:

Despite all of your AC, you're still a 1d6 hit dice Wizard. Only ever consider yourself "tanky" against weapon attacks. If there's a chance for some kind of spell or breath attack, you're going to be an easy kill. On the flipside, though, have the other melee characters take on whatever does the breath attack. So if you're fighting a Dragon and his Kobolds, you take the Kobolds while they take the Dragon.

You won't have any default uses for your Bonus Action, which is not a good problem to have as an attacking character. Find a way to use it, whether that means using a second weapon in your hand (prevents you from casting Shield or Absorb Elements if you do so), or start to cast spells that use your Bonus Action (Flaming Sphere).

[TheHutz]

Despite all of your AC, you're still a 1d6 hit dice Wizard. Only ever consider yourself "tanky" against weapon attacks. If there's a chance for some kind of spell or breath attack, you're going to be an easy kill.

It's a good idea to grab absorb elements at some point for things like the above, I've been playing a fighter 1/abjuration wizard 3 for a couple months now and Absorb Elements isn't super necessary in the early levels when spell and breath attacks are less common.

[Keravath]

Bladesingers can be fun but as mentioned you need to keep in mind that you don't have the hit points to be an effective full on melee character. If you start with 16 dex and int from point buy and wear studded leather then your starting AC is 15, rising to 18 with blade song and to 23 with a shield spell. 18 AC is the same as any other level one character with medium armor and a shield and 14 dex or heavy armor and a shield. It is very good AC for a wizard but barely average for any other melee class.

The low hit points means that you would generally prefer to not be locked in melee. The two most common ways to address that would be to take 2 levels of rogue to obtain cunning action allowing you to disengage after attacking or take the mobile feat. Either of these let you make melee attacks but not remain in melee range. This works well with the added speed from bladesong and the likely use of the booming blade cantrip. You attack a target with the cantrip and move away either using mobile or the rogue bonus action disengage forcing the target that has been hit with booming blade to take additional damage if they move to attack a target on their turn.

However, it is important to keep in mind that a bladesinger is a full caster wizard. Fireball, hypnotic pattern, rituals, suggestion, hold person, invisibility, feather fall, shield, absorb elements, magic missile, fly, counterspell ... you can use all of the wizard spells. The melee attack and extra attack capabilities of the bladesinger could be considered more of an option for turns when you might have cast a cantrip rather than replacing your spellcasting and becoming a full melee character. The real strength of the bladesinger class is the wizard spells that every wizard gets. The flavour of the class comes from the enhanced melee and fighting capabilities. This is similar to the benefits of evoker/diviner/abjurer ... each has a particular flavour defined by the archetype abilities but they are all fundamentally wizards and the bladesinger is the same.

[Mikaleus]

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

I’m used to being in the thick of battle normally (paladin and Cleric) and I have to admit, my D6 hp is a bit of a concern.

Looking at everyone’s advice, I think If I’m a Bladesinger, I’d like to be in the thick of it rather than stick back. That said the Bladesong seems quite good for even playing a ‘normal’ wizard but then I’d prob look at War Wizard.

This may be a more low level campaign I’m predicting maybe a 4-5 finish, which may be a factor in considering whether I should stick to BS or maybe even WW.

[Man_Over_Game]

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

I’m used to being in the thick of battle normally (paladin and Cleric) and I have to admit, my D6 hp is a bit of a concern.

Looking at everyone’s advice, I think If I’m a Bladesinger, I’d like to be in the thick of it rather than stick back. That said the Bladesong seems quite good for even playing a ‘normal’ wizard but then I’d prob look at War Wizard.

This may be a more low level campaign I’m predicting maybe a 4-5 finish, which may be a factor in considering whether I should stick to BS or maybe even WW.

The difference is, the War Mage plans on getting attacked once per round. The Bladesinger plans on being attacked more than that.

[Silkensword]

I have some suggested reading for you! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...H0ngZWXQ/edit#

[Mikaleus]

The difference is, the War Mage plans on getting attacked once per round. The Bladesinger plans on being attacked more than that.

That is a most excellent point.

[Mikaleus]

I have some suggested reading for you! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...H0ngZWXQ/edit#

Thanks for the link.


I’m not much of a multiclasser but I’m still a base chassis wizard if we do progress beyond my predicted levels.

I’ve seen mentions of spell sniper and booming blade with a whip. Sounds awesome.

However are there any other recommended feats people have found to be a solid pick.

My dex and int are both 16.

[djreynolds]

Sometimes your cantrips or elemental spells will be ineffective because of resistances.... now you have 2 good bow or rapiers attacks to use

Sometimes that barbarian is on his last leg, or his wisdom is an 8... so you can stand next to him, cast protection from evil on him and the two of you fight off the undead or demons your firebolt doesn't harm

You are still a wizard, I use bladesong if the tanks need help or you have a concentration spell casted that you cannot have dropped

Also you are more inclined to pump up dexterity, and bows and rapiers include your ability bonus to damage unlike your cantrips.

[Frozenstep]

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

I’m used to being in the thick of battle normally (paladin and Cleric) and I have to admit, my D6 hp is a bit of a concern.

Looking at everyone’s advice, I think If I’m a Bladesinger, I’d like to be in the thick of it rather than stick back.

In that case, I'd suggest you take blur and love it. Making those 1/20 chances to crit on you become 1/400 chances instead is very lovely.

I’ve seen mentions of spell sniper and booming blade with a whip. Sounds awesome.

However are there any other recommended feats people have found to be a solid pick.

My dex and int are both 16.

Spell sniper with a whip is kind of a cute trick, but I'd rather take mobile and get the same effect while also boosting my mobility.

Other feats to think about are resilient (con) and war caster. If you drop concentration on a defensive spell, you'll probably have to waste your next action reapplying it, which takes time away from you hitting things and puts you at risk. resilient (con) is better at higher levels, as the bonus scales and also helps address your typical weakness to saving throws. However, at low levels it likely won't make much difference, so maybe for your campaign you'll want warcaster, which gives advantage and also lets you use booming blade (or some other spells like a hideous laughter or hold person...) as an opportunity attack.

[Deathtongue]

The thing about Bladesinger is that their melee combat gets outshined by the impact of their spells, especially if certain magical items are in play. If you have a Staff of the Magi at level 12 (definitely possible in Adventurer's League), are you really going to be wasting your time with Shadow Blade + Melee Attack stuff? Animate Objects + Staff of the Magi Lightning Bolt is way stronger than anything I could do with melee, even if I'm doing something like Tenser's Transformation + Ring of Spell Storing with my Familiar Haste.

Bladesinger is weird because their melee capabilities are very strong at levels 3 - 7 and levels 17 - 20 if they're cheating with Shapechange + True Polymorph + Simulacrum + Wish. But levels 8 - 16, they're best served by treating the character as a high-defense wizard who do do things like punish enemies who try to move out of a Transmute Rock or Black Tentacles formation.

As someone who wrote that Bladesinger guide, my advice to you is to ignore any advice you get about trying to improve your melee capabilities with stuff like Mobile and Spell Sniper unless you plan for your game to end at around level 6 or so. That stuff is child's play that will not serve you well long-term. You're better off:

A) Take a concentration-boosting feat. Resilient: CON and Warcaster are about of equal utility. I prefer Resilient: CON.
B) Max out your Intelligence and Dexterity.
C) MAYBE take Tough to shore up one of your biggest weaknesses.

If you rolled for stats you have more wiggle room. However, even if I started out with 20s in Intelligence and Dexterity and Constitution, I would never pick up feats like Mobile and Spell Sniper if I was in for the long haul. I'd be picking up feats that were generically good, such as Lucky and Tough and Alert.

[Mikaleus]

The thing about Bladesinger is that their melee combat gets outshined by the impact of their spells, especially if certain magical items are in play. If you have a Staff of the Magi at level 12 (definitely possible in Adventurer's League), are you really going to be wasting your time with Shadow Blade + Melee Attack stuff? Animate Objects + Staff of the Magi Lightning Bolt is way stronger than anything I could do with melee, even if I'm doing something like Tenser's Transformation + Ring of Spell Storing with my Familiar Haste.

Bladesinger is weird because their melee capabilities are very strong at levels 3 - 7 and levels 17 - 20 if they're cheating with Shapechange + True Polymorph + Simulacrum + Wish. But levels 8 - 16, they're best served by treating the character as a high-defense wizard who do do things like punish enemies who try to move out of a Transmute Rock or Black Tentacles formation.

As someone who wrote that Bladesinger guide, my advice to you is to ignore any advice you get about trying to improve your melee capabilities with stuff like Mobile and Spell Sniper unless you plan for your game to end at around level 6 or so. That stuff is child's play that will not serve you well long-term. You're better off:

A) Take a concentration-boosting feat. Resilient: CON and Warcaster are about of equal utility. I prefer Resilient: CON.
B) Max out your Intelligence and Dexterity.
C) MAYBE take Tough to shore up one of your biggest weaknesses.

If you rolled for stats you have more wiggle room. However, even if I started out with 20s in Intelligence and Dexterity and Constitution, I would never pick up feats like Mobile and Spell Sniper if I was in for the long haul. I'd be picking up feats that were generically good, such as Lucky and Tough and Alert.

Wow thanks for your post.

I’m not sure how high level this campaign will go as it’s one of the DMs making. If it was kept at lower levels It’s nice to know the Bladesinger will be effective in melee as it’s flavour depicts.

But if it goes higher, does the benefits of bladesong outweigh the features of war wizards. On paper I think it does but am definitely interested to hear what people have experienced in game.