Is There Such Thing As A Human Fossil?

[Bartmanhomer]

When humans freeze themselves in ice, are they considered to be human fossils also is there such thing as a human fossil at all?

[Rogar Demonblud]

First, something frozen is not a fossil. Fossilization is the process of converting biological matter to stone.

Second, not really, as technically most of the humanoid fossils we have aren't human. There are a few exceptions (basically, Pompeii or similar), so there are caveats to the blanket assertion.

[halfeye]

When humans freeze themselves in ice, are they considered to be human fossils also is there such thing as a human fossil at all?

First, something frozen is not a fossil. Fossilization is the process of converting biological matter to stone.

This is correct.

Second, not really, as technically most of the humanoid fossils we have aren't human. There are a few exceptions (basically, Pompeii or similar), so there are caveats to the blanket assertion.

There are, as I understand it, literal fossils of Cro Magnon man, which is us.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lution_fossils

I'm not sure they're not counting ordinary bones as fossils there?

[Rogar Demonblud]

A lot of people just refer to any old bone as a fossil (or any old professor, but that's a different discussion).

[Mechalich]

There are considerable human Subfossil remains which may be quite old but have not yet completed the fossilization process or simply being preserved for a long period of time without any real chance of undergoing said process (such as materials preserved in non-depositional cave environments).

Actual mineralized fossil remains of anatomically modern humans do exist, such as the Omo remains but are uncommon.

[wumpus]

TActual mineralized fossil remains of anatomically modern humans do exist, such as the Omo remains but are uncommon.

Oddly enough, the Smithsonian Museum of Natural history has a corpse from 18th century Philadelphia, PA that more or less naturally turned to soap instead of rock (I remember seeing it on exhibit, I don't think they have had it on display for decades). From memory it seemed that the corpse would have fossilized (turned to limestone) had it not be discovered roughly 100 years later (1870), but googling can't confirm.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ics-108792535/

[weckar]

Imprints of where biological matter used to be are also sometimes referred to as fossils.

[Zeb]

A fossil is the remains, impression, or other evidence preserved in rock of the former existence of life. Most require burial in what becomes Sedimentary rock.

There are 2 main types
Trace fossils – record the past behavior of organisms (tracks, trails, burrows, eggs, nests, coprolites)
Body fossils – actual body parts (teeth, bones, shells, etc.)

Mold- hollow space in rock after organism dies
internal mold (of the inside of a seashell)
external mold (impression left in sediment)
Cast- minerals or sediments fill in a mold and harden
Petrification- turned into stone (ie petrified wood)
Carbon Copies- imprint on rock from carbon that seeps out
Amber- hardened tree sap
Permineralization – minerals carried by groundwater fill the spaces within organic tissue
Replacement –when the shell, bone or other tissue is replaced with another mineral
Recrystallization – original skeletal compounds are still present but in a different crystal form, such as from aragonite to calcite

While there are lots of trace fossils of humans, what constitutes a human body fossil is still debated.

[Spojaz]

First, something frozen is not a fossil. Fossilization is the process of converting biological matter to stone.

This is incorrect.

Fossilization is the process of preserving evidence of biological life in a mineral. Water ice is a mineral, as it is an inorganic, solid, crystalline substance that can be found in the crust of the earth.

Ötzi (the iceman) is a human fossil, 7/10ths of our planet is covered in lava.

[Bohandas]

Any fossils of the mineralized type we typically think of when we hear the word "fossil" would have to date back at least to hunter-gatherer times as IIRC those kinds of fossils take a minimum of about 10000 years to form.

Depending on your definition of "fossil" though the voids left in the ash at Pompeii by corpses could be considered "external mold" type fossils

[Bohandas]

Oddly enough, the Smithsonian Museum of Natural history has a corpse from 18th century Philadelphia, PA that more or less naturally turned to soap instead of rock (I remember seeing it on exhibit, I don't think they have had it on display for decades). From memory it seemed that the corpse would have fossilized (turned to limestone) had it not be discovered roughly 100 years later (1870), but googling can't confirm.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ics-108792535/

There's actually a couple of mummies like that in Philadelphia. The Mütter Museum of the College of Physicians of Philadelphia also has one

[LibraryOgre]

A lot of people just refer to any old bone as a fossil (or any old professor, but that's a different discussion).

Sometimes it happens to old Jedi, too.

[shawnhcorey]

There are many human fossils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lution_fossils

[wumpus]

There are many human fossils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lution_fossils

Just because wiki lists such things as "fossils" hardly guarantees that those listed have their bones replaced with/converted to rock. Indeed, the last "fossil" listed is Ötzi, who was mummified and not fossilized.

[hamishspence]

Just because wiki lists such things as "fossils" hardly guarantees that those listed have their bones replaced with/converted to rock. Indeed, the last "fossil" listed is Ötzi, who was mummified and not fossilized.

Depends on if frozen mammoths are considered fossils or not:

Fossilization is the process of preserving evidence of biological life in a mineral. Water ice is a mineral, as it is an inorganic, solid, crystalline substance that can be found in the crust of the earth.

Ötzi (the iceman) is a human fossil, 7/10ths of our planet is covered in lava.

[Comissar]

First, something frozen is not a fossil. Fossilization is the process of converting biological matter to stone.

Second, not really, as technically most of the humanoid fossils we have aren't human. There are a few exceptions (basically, Pompeii or similar), so there are caveats to the blanket assertion.

By this definition, Amber inclusions aren't fossils (not that I'm saying there are humans caught in amber), so it's too narrow a definition.

But yes, as other posters have said, there's a reasonable record of human fossils in existence. That said, the main difficulty with finding fossils of humans is that we tend not to live in areas that are well suited for fossil formation. Fossils form best in areas where the remains can be buried quickly and become inaccessible to scavengers. Most environments on land don't fit that category (it's why our record of aquatic animal fossils is way better than the land record, and most fossils of land animals come from flood deposits).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Amber inclusions are preserved, not petrified or fossilized. They're one of those weird edge cases.

[Honest Tiefling]

Now I wonder if fossilized human remains would fall under trade bans of human remains or not. It's not TECHNICALLY a skeleton if it's a proper fossil...

[Cikomyr]

Now I wonder if fossilized human remains would fall under trade bans of human remains or not. It's not TECHNICALLY a skeleton if it's a proper fossil...

There's probably an exemption for scientific research

[Mechalich]

There's probably an exemption for scientific research

Fossils are generally considered 'antiquities' and their trade is broadly governed by this treaty with a really long name. Many countries - notably Mongolia and Switzerland - have their own specific laws regarding the provenance and ownership of fossils, but the international legal framework is extremely convoluted and patchy. Forum rules prevent any discussion of the issue in depth.