Group Troubles

[Allistar]

So a long while ago my brother got me into D&D and we got together with his group of friends and it was really fun. We've started a lot of running jokes, but lately something has gotten me irked.

We've been playing 5e since about 2016 but recently I feel like I've seen a lot more cookie cutter type characters than I've seen in any other system. Maybe Its because we've been playing so long, but it feels like as time goes on our characters have been becoming carbon copies of the ones before them. We have this one guy who has been playing variations upon jesters for the last 2 campaigns, and then in my most recent game a druid that only speaks to beasts, and their antics grew stale after about the third session. Along the same lines there's another guy that insists on playing bounty hunters or ex/current thugs, it was fun at first and then it got repeated over and over again. There's also a guy who literally only plays mutes that don't talk to anyone, he is literally just there for combat and even then he's either on his phone or sleeping. The only other guy that actually puts in the effort to RP was actually our previous DM, but he's gone away to California for the next 9 months for his studies.

I've been the go to DM for the time being, and they said they wanted to see a pirate campaign, so I gave it to them. The emphasis was on exploration and character interaction, but those things never happened and now I've taken a step back and am trying make a plan of action. I'm going to try and run some more story driven games in the coming months, but I fear that this wont change anything and I'll just be left empty and defeated. What do I do?

[Zhorn]

Try a different system?

If the players have the option to do a thing they are comfortable doing, then that's what they'll tend to fall back on, intentionally or not.
Since the issue you raise is everyone falling into a constant character type, I'd just offer a short game or one shot where such a concept doesn't work. One shots are a great way for people to test out ideas they usually are not comfortable with, and things far removed from their regular go-to.

People tend to adapt to change, and a different environment can provoke change quite easily.

[DanDare2050]

First thing, do you have explicit ground rules for play? One of mine, all players know up front, no using phones / computers except to look up stuff for the game or track your character. You spend time with your eyes glued to the phone out of game then go do it somewhere else.

Second, how do you reward players for good play? If you want the players to change it up a bit what levers can they pull to get kudos/rewards? Do they know about it? If you want exploration and character interaction then its "hey guys, extra XP for exploring new territory, and bonus XP for persuading local lords to do things. Dissuade enemies from attacking you and you get 20% of the xp for having defeated them." or whatever.

[The Kool]

"Dissuade enemies from attacking you and you get 20% of the xp for having defeated them." or whatever.

On this specific point: Consider that the players need not slay foes to earn XP. Overcoming an encounter is all that is required, which can just as easily be through deception or diplomacy, and those paths have the natural incentives of not risking PC life. Earning full XP for a diplomatic solution is entirely fair. I think it entirely telling that older editions had such gems as "Award 200XP for escaping the trap, and 400 for not setting it off the in first place." Alternative solutions to brute force are often actually more valuable. Encourage players to engage.

[Allistar]

First thing, do you have explicit ground rules for play? One of mine, all players know up front, no using phones / computers except to look up stuff for the game or track your character. You spend time with your eyes glued to the phone out of game then go do it somewhere else.

Second, how do you reward players for good play? If you want the players to change it up a bit what levers can they pull to get kudos/rewards? Do they know about it? If you want exploration and character interaction then its "hey guys, extra XP for exploring new territory, and bonus XP for persuading local lords to do things. Dissuade enemies from attacking you and you get 20% of the xp for having defeated them." or whatever.

The way that I reward good play is pretty much exactly like that. Inspiration and bonus XP is given out when they do something cool, or find a solution that I didn't think of. I reward them for interacting with the NPCs by giving in game advantages, get in good with the enchantress and get a discount, get in good with the guard and get access to the armory and a badge that grants you special leeway.

The problem is the remaining players never interact. They don't seek out NPCs for anything because they insist they can do it themselves, if an NPC approaches them they usually don't care what they have to say unless all they have to say is "There's goblins in the cave go kill them" or something along those lines.

On this specific point: Consider that the players need not slay foes to earn XP. Overcoming an encounter is all that is required, which can just as easily be through deception or diplomacy, and those paths have the natural incentives of not risking PC life. Earning full XP for a diplomatic solution is entirely fair. I think it entirely telling that older editions had such gems as "Award 200XP for escaping the trap, and 400 for not setting it off the in first place." Alternative solutions to brute force are often actually more valuable. Encourage players to engage.

Yes, all the time actually. One of the things I reward most is alternative solutions, but they never actually attempt to do anything with those setups. Keeping with the goblin thing, when I try to set up their shamanistic nature and the fact that they revere the nature spirits as gods and will do whatever the wind says, the druid does exactly nothing different and continues his straightforward march. When I try and drop hints that the goblins use traps and diversionary tactics to put the party in a bad position, they don't look around for traps or check the corners, they just keep on waltzing through on their normal killing spree.

They've basically become murder hobos in the last 2 months. All they want is to kill stuff, get gold, get xp, and get magic items and instead of playing literally any other RPG we do D&D for some reason. Maybe they'll get it together after they've had their fix of hack and slash, but I really don't like this kind of mindless gameplay especially when I spent so long trying to build up a world after my first game (which funnily enough was also a more story driven game, but they actually liked it a lot back then and tried to interact.... feelsbadman).

[JackPhoenix]

Well, this may sound radical, but... have you tried talking to them about the issue? You seem to simply have different expectations for the game. That's fine, but if you can't resolve the differences between your playstyles through talking with the players, it may be better to find a different group than trying to force everyone into a game they find no fun.

[The Kool]

Keeping with the goblin thing, when I try to set up their shamanistic nature and the fact that they revere the nature spirits as gods and will do whatever the wind says, the druid does exactly nothing different and continues his straightforward march. When I try and drop hints that the goblins use traps and diversionary tactics to put the party in a bad position, they don't look around for traps or check the corners, they just keep on waltzing through on their normal killing spree.

They've basically become murder hobos in the last 2 months.

You know, there's a fix for this. Clearly they have discovered that they can meet the foes on the foes' terms, on the foes' strong point, and walk right over them. Remove this advantage. Over a few encounters, scale up the difficulty until they realize that walking in the front door is not a smart idea. G.G. used to play his monsters intelligently. I advise that when you set up an encounter, think on the monsters' behalf as if they were PCs, and prepare tactics accordingly. Avoid melee slugfests. Kobolds (or goblins apparently) love traps and high ground, set it up so that if the players don't heed the warning they walk into a killbox with crossbows raining down on them and no way up. Overuse traps, then add a few more, and make them hurt. And when you need to go all out, have some spellcasters on the other side, and don't pull punches. If a PC dies, roll with it. They need to learn they aren't invincible. If it seems like an option you are giving the enemies is unfair, that's the one you want.

Then when the players start to whine (they will), explain that there are easier ways to approach the situation they just went through. Suggest one or two. Drop heavy hints next time, and when they try to murderhobo it again, drop the most blatant "are you sure?" that a DM has ever dropped. If this doesn't get it through to them... then I dunno man.

[Obermax]

A fun idea that we have done in one of our groups (we usually run a session 0 for character creation) we all sat down and went over which classes we have all tried and have not tried then we all tried to play a character that we have never played

As a result the guy who always plays fighters was the wizard
The guy who always plays rogues was a barbarian
The guy who is always the cleric was a rogue
Etc etc

And as a result it completely changed the group dynamic inside combat and to a lesser degree outside of combat and was a very fresh campaign experience for all of us

Also try and understand that not all players are interested in spending 2 hours talking to a bar tender and that same player likely doesn't care whether or not the farmer is scared etc etc many people enjoy dnd for the tactical combat action just like many people enjoy it for the simple sake of pretending to be a person who only speaks to animals? I am blessed with a strong group that enjoys both rp and combat with no strong preference to either

BUT I will also say that tempo always helps get at least 1 solid meaningful battle in a session and for the players who do engage on active rp make their actions meaningful (don't go overboard) but maybe they meet that merchant they spent 2 hours haggling with last session have the opportunity to save him from bandits and have the ability to make purchases at wholesale cost whenever they encounter him? Encouraging rping with NPCs as well as encouraging tactical combat allowing everyone at the table to feel rewarded?

My 2 cents not a end all solution but sometimes it helps to throw everything in the blender and turn it on :) good luck

[JakOfAllTirades]

A fun idea that we have done in one of our groups (we usually run a session 0 for character creation) we all sat down and went over which classes we have all tried and have not tried then we all tried to play a character that we have never played

As a result the guy who always plays fighters was the wizard
The guy who always plays rogues was a barbarian
The guy who is always the cleric was a rogue
Etc etc

And as a result it completely changed the group dynamic inside combat and to a lesser degree outside of combat and was a very fresh campaign experience for all of us

Also try and understand that not all players are interested in spending 2 hours talking to a bar tender and that same player likely doesn't care whether or not the farmer is scared etc etc many people enjoy dnd for the tactical combat action just like many people enjoy it for the simple sake of pretending to be a person who only speaks to animals? I am blessed with a strong group that enjoys both rp and combat with no strong preference to either

BUT I will also say that tempo always helps get at least 1 solid meaningful battle in a session and for the players who do engage on active rp make their actions meaningful (don't go overboard) but maybe they meet that merchant they spent 2 hours haggling with last session have the opportunity to save him from bandits and have the ability to make purchases at wholesale cost whenever they encounter him? Encouraging rping with NPCs as well as encouraging tactical combat allowing everyone at the table to feel rewarded?

My 2 cents not a end all solution but sometimes it helps to throw everything in the blender and turn it on :) good luck

This right here.

All of it.

I love the idea of everyone sitting down for the "what class have I not played, ever" campaign.

[suplee215]

As usual I think it best to talk to the group and see if you are alone in this not being enjoyable. That said, one thing I've done before that was very interesting is a system where everyone is either randomly or almost randomly given their character class. The way I did it is the party began as normal people in a museum who due to reasons got locked in a weird room with a whole ton of old exhibits. Each object in the room had a class attached to them and whichever one the characters were attracted to determined their chance once as they were teleported to another world.

[Azgeroth]

did you consider they wanted a pirate campaign because all they want is to loot and pillage?

and perhaps they want a murder-hobo campaign?

nothing wrong with that, just make sure you prep accordingly, if your not happy with that, talk to the group and find a middle ground.