How to Break the Artificer

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

I plan on playing an artificer, and I need help breaking it. One of the members of my party in our (Soon to be played) lvl 10 campaign, is an insanely good spellcaster, so I need something fun to keep up.

I chose artificer, so I could properly explore more of the ins-and-outs of item creation. My original intention would be fore me to create a few Homunculi & Golem soldiers to fight for me, and spending all of my free time crafting magic items for the rest of my party.

I don't have to worry about xp costs and everything because my group plays by a heavily house-ruled milestone leveling system. Our DM is also very gracious with the amount of gold he gives us, but I still need to pinch copper, because I need this boi to be OPTIMIZED.

I honestly don't know much about how to optimize an artificer, so I need a list of recommended feats, magic items, and things that I should craft.

[MisterKaws]

I'm pretty sure there are some shenanigans with animated colossal spiked chains, which basically amount to having a CR12 creature by level 1, which is mostly for low-level game-breaking, but could still be useful at level 10.

You should also look into making yourself a Warforged to abuse the Artificer-Construct interactions, primarily the rules for converting just about all items into Warforged Components. There are some ways of hiding wands inside your body as well, which lets them activate with just a thought. Can be useful with people trying to restrict your casting. Most of this is on Magic of Eberron or maybe Forge of War, except that first paragraph, which is a build someone posted recently.

Can anyone provide links or page numbers to all of this I posted? My network isn't cooperating.

[Troacctid]

Artificers make excellent persistomancers due to their metamagic item infusion.

Good races include warforged for Wand Bonding and human (Cannith) for summon marked homunculus.

[Telonius]

Anything your Wizard can cast, you can craft and cast too. One of the best things about Artificer is that you can even (with enough time, gold, and XP) be a Wizard-ier Wizard than your Wizard. Check out this link for a list of early-access spells that you can craft (thanks to various prestige classes and company giving you higher-powered yet lower-leveled spells). For example, you can be throwing around a Chain Lightning at level 10, when your party Wizard will have to wait until level 11; since it's a Duskblade 5 spell. Mass Suggestion and Antimagic Field are others you can get at 5. In particular check out the Bard spells on the list; many of those are intended for higher-level characters, since Bards are usually level 13 when they get 5th-level spells.

DM is generous with gold, and seriously houserules crafting? This is where you become a very, very big force multiplier. With your crafting feats, particularly Wondrous Item and Arms and Armor, you can break Wealth-By-Level into little tiny pieces. Anything your party is thinking of buying, have them pay you half the list price and make it for them. (Maybe charge 1% on top if you need extra cash for your own use). Your party's wealth now goes twice as far.

If you need some more information, this Artificer's Handbook is a decently good one.

[Mato]

Q: How to break the artificer?
A: Point out that per crafting rules, crafting a gold piece takes 1/3 of a gold piece. Once the class starts sobbing unroll your leather snatchal of clerics and point out how at level 3 they can achieve 40+ checks with sacrificial rituals for a nearly unlimited supply of dark craft XP & gold for magical item creation. Now the artificer will make a last ditch effort to maintain his sanity, so lean in and whisper to his ear that for a +10% increase to that free cost, you can skip having the appropriate item creation feat. Lean back from the broken artificer and introduce them to Tom, the party's hireling artificer. Tom was loaned a minor schema of unfettered heroism, a metamagic wand grip, and the left over barely charged wands. And you will be able to feel the moment you broke his hope.

---

A little more seriously, you're not going to find much on how to break an artificer because every post that touches on the subject is something anyone else can do (and can probably do it better). So you are better off just looking at handbooks about other classes, items, or game breaking stuff in general, and assembling your own mixture of things. Item Alteration is really the only semi-unique thing for them. But it's not a spell so it cannot be persisted or quickened, but it's payoffs when stacked can be pretty useful in the numbers game. It's just not very useful when compared to people that don't have to participate in a numbers game.

[Piggy Knowles]

I take it this is in addition to your unkillable Con-based Abjurant Champion, your Lost Tradition Strength-based Wizard, your red dragon-slaying ranger, your halfling dinosaur wrangler with supercharged Handle Animal, your super strong character that carries its party members around with ease, your super-performing bard, your Daunting Presence tank fighter, your Ike from Fire Emblem clone, your knockdown tank with +30 Intimidate and sky-high AC, your chef-based character and your Diplomacy-based monster tamer that you've posted about just this month alone? I take it May has been a busy month for you...

Artificer is not particularly hard to break. It is a class with a lot of moving parts, so to speak, so it's hard to point to any single thing and say "this, this right here is what you do if you want to break the game," but in general: a completely unrestricted artificer should have access to any magic that an ordinary caster would have, quite often at a lower level than the actual caster would get access to. Really, it depends a lot on what exactly you want your artificer to do. You can focus on party-buffing and persistomancy and be a solid, flexible build that can do almost anything in a mid- to high-op game without completely breaking things. Or, you can abuse things like low-CL scrolls of ur-priest or divine crusader versions of high level spells to get early access to miracle or shapechange or gate or whatever your game-breaking high level spell of choice is, and then let things snowball from there. But it would be easier to provide specific details on how to do something if you give us more specifics on what exactly you want to do. What is it that your high-op spellcaster party member is DOING? Are you trying to get in on the fun, or just show them up? What's your actual goal here?

[Zaq]

I take it this is in addition to your unkillable Con-based Abjurant Champion, your Lost Tradition Strength-based Wizard, your red dragon-slaying ranger, your halfling dinosaur wrangler with supercharged Handle Animal, your super strong character that carries its party members around with ease, your super-performing bard, your Daunting Presence tank fighter, your Ike from Fire Emblem clone, your knockdown tank with +30 Intimidate and sky-high AC, your chef-based character and your Diplomacy-based monster tamer that you've posted about just this month alone? I take it May has been a busy month for you...

I mean, I make about 3-5 characters minimum between being invited to a game and actually coming to the table, not including characters for friends, build competitions, or idle gameless brainstorming, so I PROBABLY shouldn’t find this as funny as I do...

Maybe that’s exactly why it’s so funny. Recognition.

[MisterKaws]

I mean, I make about 3-5 characters minimum between being invited to a game and actually coming to the table, not including characters for friends, build competitions, or idle gameless brainstorming, so I PROBABLY shouldn’t find this as funny as I do...

Maybe that’s exactly why it’s so funny. Recognition.

Well, there's people like me, who can't frigging find players after moving to a new place, so they just keep world-building and making new characters.

Hell, I'm working on an entire handbook, likely to finish after my finals are over.^{Or maybe not}

[Tvtyrant]

Craft: Contingency on an Artificer lets you cast any spell in the game by crafting them like a scroll without an activation cost. This can be abused very hard or used reasonably, either way it is extremely powerful. Doing finger guns to activate 20 Meteor Swarm spells in a single turn for a silly and rather weak version.

[Mato]

I take it this is in addition to your unkillable Con-based Abjurant Champion, your Lost Tradition Strength-based Wizard, your red dragon-slaying ranger, your halfling dinosaur wrangler with supercharged Handle Animal, your super strong character that carries its party members around with ease, your super-performing bard, your Daunting Presence tank fighter, your Ike from Fire Emblem clone, your knockdown tank with +30 Intimidate and sky-high AC, your chef-based character and your Diplomacy-based monster tamer that you've posted about just this month alone? I take it May has been a busy month for you...

Just combine them all. With enough gold you can use a minor schema of metamagic item to apply your persist spell metamagic to any given staff or wand. Like a staff with lightning ring, admixtured fire shield, greater blink, forceward, & friendly fire costs 115,312.5gp. You become immune to ranged attacks and all other effects are subject to a 50% miss chance. If a melee attack does hit, they take 2d6+30 damage per success. Anyone near you also takes 10d6 damage, and as a free action you can fire two 5d6 lightning bolts each round too.

You can even buy more than one. Like a staff that a wu gen assisted in crafting. This one has bite of the wearbear, giant size, sadism, admixtured wreath of flames (with a ring of mystic fire), & superior resistance which costs 126,468.75gp. This gives you +48 str, +28 con, +19 to natural AC, +6 resistance saves, two bonus feats (power attack & blind-fighting) two natural primary claws that deal 6d6 slashing damage and a secondary bite that deals 8d8 piercing damage, colossal size (+16 to intimidate/grapple), and any creature adjacent to you on your turn or hit by those melee weapons takes an extra 10d6 damage. Without casting another spell, and after a full-attack with a starting 10 str, you should reach at least +30 luck bonus to all skill checks, saves, and attack rolls on the following round(s) which wraps up your skills for you too.

With UMD, you can do this as monk btw. The staffs will last until dispelled, or apox ten days at full usage. Unfettered heroism and wand surge can be used to power the staff(s) indefinitely if you're an actual spellcaster through which can open up the idea of everyone in the party running these buffs if they are spellcasters as well.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

I take it this is in addition to your unkillable Con-based Abjurant Champion, your Lost Tradition Strength-based Wizard, your red dragon-slaying ranger, your halfling dinosaur wrangler with supercharged Handle Animal, your super strong character that carries its party members around with ease, your super-performing bard, your Daunting Presence tank fighter, your Ike from Fire Emblem clone, your knockdown tank with +30 Intimidate and sky-high AC, your chef-based character and your Diplomacy-based monster tamer that you've posted about just this month alone? I take it May has been a busy month for you...

I have commitment issues, as in, I rarely settle on a singular concept for too long. My DM has called me out on this, where I run about 4 characters by him each time we think about starting up a new campaign.

I an very embarrassed that someone has finally called me out on posting threads pertaining to a whole bunch of characters. As it stands, the intimidation tank is the only character that I have actually played as well as the only one that I currently have planned to play any time in the near future. I like to have knowledge of many options for when making characters. I still go back to my first post, which was asking about a shield based ability class, and debate whether or not I can pull him off.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

I mean, I make about 3-5 characters minimum between being invited to a game and actually coming to the table, not including characters for friends, build competitions, or idle gameless brainstorming, so I PROBABLY shouldn’t find this as funny as I do...

That's exactly what I do, my current record was for a campaign that my friend was running, where I played 3 different characters, and made approximately 6 other characters (Each with at least 2 pages of backstory) between characters 2 and 3.

My DM has prohibited me from coming to the table until I have narrowed everything down to only one character, and I'm not allowed to change my character after I have physically sat down at the table.

[Mato]

and I'm not allowed to change my character after I have physically sat down at the table.

It's settled then. Changling factotum 8 / chameleon 10 / yourgamewontlastthatlong 2
Technically you're not changing your character.

[Piggy Knowles]

I mean I get it. You should see the number of builds I'm constantly fiddling with in my google drive. It's a pretty impressive number. Just thought it was funny that there's basically been a new thread from you on a new character concept every other day this month.

Anyhow, if this is for an actual game with actual people then I don't recommend really breaking the game. An artificer is still a good option in a high-op party, though. If you want to keep some of your other ideas to be incorporated here, what about:

Artificer 8/Crusader 2, focused on persistomancy? Basically just look up "Artificers without Artifice" and crib heavily for ideas on how to play an artificer (on mobile or I'd link the thread myself, but if you google that it should come up).

You could go with something like this for a level by level progression:

1. Artificer1- Scribe Scroll^B, Extend Spell, Iron Will
2. Artificer2- Brew Potion^B
3. Artificer3- Craft Wondrous Item^B, Item Familiar
4. Artificer4- Persistent Spell^B
5. Artificer5- Craft Magic Arms and Armor^B
6. Artificer6- Craft Wand^B, Hardened Criminal
7. Artificer7-
8. Artificer8- Rapid Infusion^B
9. Crusader1- Extra Granted Maneuver
10. Crusader2-

^BBonus artificer feat

Pick maneuvers as you see fit; you get 5 maneuvers and 2 stances of up to 3rd-level. You mentioned liking shields, so shield block isn't a bad choice, and artificers do well with shields. Get an item familiar and dump as many skill ranks as you can into it to keep your UMD sky-high. Your basic MO is to use the spell storing item infusion to create single-use wands of any spell up to 4th-level, and the metamagic item infusion to then apply Persistent Spell to it for free. For extra fun, use concurrent infusions to set three spell-storing items at once without spending any XP. From there, play as a hard-to-kill crusader, protecting your allies with things like shield block and healing them with your devoted spirit maneuvers while buffed out the wazoo. Craft all your own weapons and armor and use your infusions to further boost those as well. When you get to a situation that stumps you, remember that a Rapid Infusion spell-storing item effectively gives you ANY spell from ANY list of up to 4th-level, on demand and without preparation. Pretty hard to beat that as far as utility goes.

[Zaq]

It's settled then. Changling factotum 8 / chameleon 10 / yourgamewontlastthatlong 2
Technically you're not changing your character.

Pffft. Factotum is the amateur "something new every day" character. Pros use binder/incarnate/chameleon. Or mix in some totemist if you like.

Factotums are generalists. Binders and incarnates are serial specialists.

[arkangel111]

you could check the link to my iron chef build. lvl 15 artificer Czar Hail. I wrote up several different break points with some tips and tricks that are rather tame by playground standards but still game breaking when used correctly.

[RoboEmperor]

Just craft a Scroll of Wish using the Divine Crusader's spell list and by spending 15,000xp creating it and then use the scroll of Wish to create a Mithral Golem.

[daremetoidareyo]

Dip swordsage 1, pick up scribe martial script and ocular spell, use metamagic spell trigger to combine them and shoot rays of martial maneuvers at your enemies, if the maneuvers are ruled as spell effects, or at your allies so they can use maneuvers

[MisterKaws]

Dip swordsage 1, pick up scribe martial script and ocular spell, use metamagic spell trigger to combine them and shoot rays of martial maneuvers at your enemies, if the maneuvers are ruled as spell effects, or at your allies so they can use maneuvers

Heavy breathing

How in the nine hells did I never think of this?!

[Mato]

Dip swordsage 1, pick up scribe martial script and ocular spell, use metamagic spell trigger to combine them and shoot rays of martial maneuvers at your enemies, if the maneuvers are ruled as spell effects, or at your allies so they can use maneuvers

Heavy breathing

How in the nine hells did I never think of this?!

Because it's a terrible houserule that leads to BS conclusions like "I shoot iron heart surge at people so they can end iron heart surge, does reality break?"

A martial script is a magic item but it's not a spell trigger magic item. And unless noted otherwise maneuvers are extraordinary abilities. Even the supernatural ones are not spells even if you flimsily attempt to stretch the phase to "spell effect". Also fun fact, the artificer's spell trigger class feature doesn't even work with actual spell scrolls, like a scroll of scorching ray, because those type of scrolls are spell completion magic items.

[daremetoidareyo]

Because it's a terrible houserule that leads to BS conclusions like "I shoot iron heart surge at people so they can end iron heart surge, does reality break?"

A martial script is a magic item but it's not a spell trigger magic item. And unless noted otherwise maneuvers are extraordinary abilities. Even the supernatural ones are not spells even if you flimsily attempt to stretch the phase to "spell effect". Also fun fact, the artificer's spell trigger class feature doesn't even work with actual spell scrolls, like a scroll of scorching ray, because those type of scrolls are spell completion magic items.

I mispoke. I believe that there is a 1st level infusion that is spell completion.

srd

The four ways to activate magic items are described below.

Spell Completion
This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

A martial script is a small strip of paper or cloth marked with delicate lettering that holds the secret of a martial maneuver. Any given script grants the use of the maneuver recorded on it for one encounter. Once it is activated, a script vanishes in a puff of white smoke.

Physical Description: A typical script is a long, thin slip of paper or cloth about 6 to 12 inches long and 1 to 2 inches wide, typically wound around a small wooden spindle or rod. Small, precise lettering covers most of one surface. A script has AC 13, 1 hit point, and a break DC of 8.

Identifying Scripts: Martial scripts are magic items. They radiate magic of the Divination school (faint for initiator level 5th or less, moderate for initiator level 6th to 11th, strong for initiator level 12th to 20th, and overpowering for initiator level 21st or higher). Anyone who can read the language of the script can determine what it does, and it can also be identified by any of the standard methods of magic item identification. Furthermore, characters with ranks in Martial Lore can identify the function of a script without knowing the language in which it is written (Martial Lore DC 15 + the martial adept level associated with the script). Making this check does not grant that character the ability to use the script—only to identify it.

Activation: To activate a script, you must read its words aloud. Typically, this requirement means you must be able to read the alphabet used for the script, but you don’t necessarily have to understand the language. For example, if you know Dwarven, you can use a script written in Giant because that language uses the Dwarven alphabet. An illiterate character cannot activate a script. If you don’t know the alphabet in which the script is written, you can use Martial Lore to activate it. To do so, you must succeed on a Martial Lore check (DC 20 + the martial adept level associated with the script). Success gives you the option of using the script immediately or readying for later use. Reading a script is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

Use: When you read a script, you gain the ability to use the single martial maneuver recorded on it for one encounter. If the maneuver can be used only once per encounter or has other use restrictions, all those limitations apply to your use of it. Using a script does not allow you to break the normal usage rules for maneuvers. For example, if you would normally be limited to using one stance at a time, that restriction still applies. You need not use the maneuver right away; you can hold it ready for use for up to 1 hour. At any point during that hour, you can use the maneuver simply by initiating it. If you’ve read several scripts and initiated their use, you have access to all the maneuvers they grant for their durations, but you can hold only one script-granted maneuver ready at a time. If you read a second script before using the maneuver granted by the first, you lose the first maneuver and now have the second script’s maneuver readied.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm

They're similar enough to argue about.

Activate Magic Item
Many magic items don’t need to be activated—magic weapons,
magic armor, gauntlets of Dexterity, and so forth. However, certain
magic items need to be activated, especially potions, scrolls, wands,
rods, and staffs. Activating a magic item is a standard action (unless
the item description indicates otherwise).
Spell Completion Items: Activating a spell completion item,
such as a scroll, is the equivalent of casting a spell. It requires concentration
and provokes attacks of opportunity. You lose the spell if
your concentration is broken, and you can attempt to activate the
item while on the defensive, as with casting a spell (see Casting on
the Defensive, above).
Spell Trigger, Command Word, or Use-Activated Items:
Activating any of these kinds of items does not require concentration
and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The Dungeon
Master’s Guide has much more information on magic items.

Magical writings

Anyways, there are three arguments to be made here:
1. Martial scripts are entirely their own type of magic item.
2. Martial scripts are use activated magic items
3. Martial scripts are spell completions

Metamagic scroll is found in magic of eberron, and it can apply to schemas as well. Which means that the scroll in question need not be a scroll per se, and that it doesn't need a divine or arcane descriptor...

[Mato]

{Scrubbed}

[daremetoidareyo]

{Scrubbed}

Man, I quoted a lot of context that could reasonably support a conclusion that martial scripts are spell completion items due to a number of thematic and mechanical similarities. I corrected my mistake about spell trigger being the appropriate avenue by giving a name and source for a first level arrificer infusion that specifically applies to written spell trigger items.

And then the response was crazy condescendingly righteous not only to me but to the entire community here...to a thread about "breaking the artificer." What's that all about?

[RoboEmperor]

{Scrubbed}

[Crichton]

Metamagic scroll is found in magic of eberron, and it can apply to schemas as well. Which means that the scroll in question need not be a scroll per se, and that it doesn't need a divine or arcane descriptor...

First, rudeness in either direction is such a shame. We can all do better here. Now, on with it:



The problem is that a martial maneuver in any form, scribed or otherwise, is not a spell, so you can't apply metamagic to it. If the maneuver in question is one that's specifically called out in its own description as a supernatural ability, you might be able to apply a meta-Su feat (from Tome of Magic) to it? Even that's questionable, and I'm pretty sure you couldn't do it from a martial script(unless you also have normal access to the maneuver) since with it not being a spell, the artificer infusion Metamagic Scroll wont work, as it only works on spells stored in spell completion items.


As for whether a martial script is a spell completion item, I'd say a strong no. Just because something is a 'completion' item doesn't mean it's a spell completion item. Power Stones are explicitly power completion items, and while scribe martial script doesn't specifically label itself, I'd say the existence of a precedent for completion items that are nonspell in nature would mean that if anything, it's a maneuver completion item.


So to summarize:

-it's not a spell completion item (so Metamagic Scroll is no good for it)
-it's not a spell at all (so any metamagic in general is no good for it)



Citation:

Martial maneuvers and stances are never spells or spell-like abilities. Unless the description of the specific maneuver or stance says otherwise, treat it as an extraordinary ability. Thus, these abilities work just fine in an antimagic field or a dead magic zone. A maneuver or stance can’t be dispelled or counterspelled, and initiating one does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If a maneuver is overtly magical or otherwise uses a supernatural power source, it is noted as a supernatural ability in its description. In this case, the maneuver obeys all the standard rules for supernatural abilities.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Keep it civil in here.