Glass Cannon mitigation for players?

[FrancisBean]

I'm playing in a game where the DM has given us some stronger magic items than we really should have. Those, along with a few boons and some homebrew along the way, have our party running definitely overpowered for our level (10, as of start of tonight). The DM did the usual thing, and bumped up the opposition to keep things challenging. Last session our party of 3 level-9 characters beat a CR13, where opponents had feats (4 hobbos with Sentinel!), but it was a delicate thing with a last-second DM-fiat rescue.

That's what revealed the downside to the classic "just bump up the opposition" approach. 5e is balanced by attrition -- that is, it expects that you're going to get hit and wear down your hit points. But since the added powers are boosting our offense (DPR) and not our defense (hit points), we're turning into a party of glass cannons. As the opposition keeps getting boosted, things are getting brittle -- we either crush the enemy easily or we escape by DM assist because we got 1-2 unlucky rolls.

The problem is subtle enough that I don't think the DM has realized it yet. I'll be bringing it up tonight, but is there anything to be done on the player side? I'm just about the only one standing in good stead because I designed a character around hit point total at the beginning. Everyone else is doing great stuff but tends to go down as soon as they take damage.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm playing in a game where the DM has given us some stronger magic items than we really should have. Those, along with a few boons and some homebrew along the way, have our party running definitely overpowered for our level (10, as of start of tonight). The DM did the usual thing, and bumped up the opposition to keep things challenging. Last session our party of 3 level-9 characters beat a CR13, where opponents had feats (4 hobbos with Sentinel!), but it was a delicate thing with a last-second DM-fiat rescue.

That's what revealed the downside to the classic "just bump up the opposition" approach. 5e is balanced by attrition -- that is, it expects that you're going to get hit and wear down your hit points. But since the added powers are boosting our offense (DPR) and not our defense (hit points), we're turning into a party of glass cannons. As the opposition keeps getting boosted, things are getting brittle -- we either crush the enemy easily or we escape by DM assist because we got 1-2 unlucky rolls.

The problem is subtle enough that I don't think the DM has realized it yet. I'll be bringing it up tonight, but is there anything to be done on the player side? I'm just about the only one standing in good stead because I designed a character around hit point total at the beginning. Everyone else is doing great stuff but tends to go down as soon as they take damage.

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking, to be honest. Your damage is being artificially enhanced, past that of what a character is normally supposed to be capable of doing, and you're asking how to enhance your survivability to match?

Artificially, would be my gut response. Talk to your DM.

But in case you're like most DnD players, and are incapable of socializing about your feelings, I'd just have strategies that fit well with people who expect to die a lot. Contingency, Revivify, Regeneration, etc.

It also helps to have something that causes some powerful damage mitigation for the team, like an Ancestral Guardian.

Absorb Elements can also do in a pinch, as it'll block half of a really nasty spell coming your way. Shield is the go-to physical equivalent.

And just to be on the safe side, get Healer's Kits for everyone.

[Dork_Forge]

Unless the DM is going to give you something to compensate them you need compensate with your character choices. What is the party composition? An easy fix would be the Tough feat, but knowing what everyone is would yield better suggestions.

[MaxWilson]

I'm playing in a game where the DM has given us some stronger magic items than we really should have. Those, along with a few boons and some homebrew along the way, have our party running definitely overpowered for our level (10, as of start of tonight). The DM did the usual thing, and bumped up the opposition to keep things challenging. Last session our party of 3 level-9 characters beat a CR13, where opponents had feats (4 hobbos with Sentinel!), but it was a delicate thing with a last-second DM-fiat rescue.

That's what revealed the downside to the classic "just bump up the opposition" approach. 5e is balanced by attrition -- that is, it expects that you're going to get hit and wear down your hit points. But since the added powers are boosting our offense (DPR) and not our defense (hit points), we're turning into a party of glass cannons. As the opposition keeps getting boosted, things are getting brittle -- we either crush the enemy easily or we escape by DM assist because we got 1-2 unlucky rolls.

The problem is subtle enough that I don't think the DM has realized it yet. I'll be bringing it up tonight, but is there anything to be done on the player side? I'm just about the only one standing in good stead because I designed a character around hit point total at the beginning. Everyone else is doing great stuff but tends to go down as soon as they take damage.

Beating a CR 13 at 9th level? That sounds like normal 5E play to me, not anything relating to your magic items. 5E overstates monster difficulty.

Fortunately, on the player side, it turns out that 5E makes it really, really easy to enhance your defenses (and rather hard to significantly increase your offense). If you post your party details we can maybe make some suggestions, either for tactics or future build options.

[Renduaz]

I'm playing in a game where the DM has given us some stronger magic items than we really should have. Those, along with a few boons and some homebrew along the way, have our party running definitely overpowered for our level (10, as of start of tonight). The DM did the usual thing, and bumped up the opposition to keep things challenging. Last session our party of 3 level-9 characters beat a CR13, where opponents had feats (4 hobbos with Sentinel!), but it was a delicate thing with a last-second DM-fiat rescue.

That's what revealed the downside to the classic "just bump up the opposition" approach. 5e is balanced by attrition -- that is, it expects that you're going to get hit and wear down your hit points. But since the added powers are boosting our offense (DPR) and not our defense (hit points), we're turning into a party of glass cannons. As the opposition keeps getting boosted, things are getting brittle -- we either crush the enemy easily or we escape by DM assist because we got 1-2 unlucky rolls.

The problem is subtle enough that I don't think the DM has realized it yet. I'll be bringing it up tonight, but is there anything to be done on the player side? I'm just about the only one standing in good stead because I designed a character around hit point total at the beginning. Everyone else is doing great stuff but tends to go down as soon as they take damage.

The easiest thing to do on the player side if you want a more balanced experience ( Though to a real munchkin, even pure RAW and 0 magical items won't be a barrier to completely unbalancing things ) is to ditch/sell your items and roleplay away all the homebrew and boons.

[Corran]

Try to build up your defenses and cc options, but most importantly try to use surprise tactics (someone grab pass without a trace at the very least) and equally importantly try to avoid being on the receiving end of one (everyone gets alert).

[FrancisBean]

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking, to be honest. Your damage is being artificially enhanced, past that of what a character is normally supposed to be capable of doing, and you're asking how to enhance your survivability to match?

Artificially, would be my gut response. Talk to your DM.

But in case you're like most DnD players, and are incapable of socializing about your feelings, I'd just have strategies that fit well with people who expect to die a lot. Contingency, Revivify, Regeneration, etc.

Unusually, for a change, I have to score you a clean miss on almost all counts. I was asking for ideas here, but like I said in the top post, I was going to talk to my DM. I'm a direct sort of guy. And it turns out that contrary to my guesses, he sees the same problem and has been worrying at it himself. Last night's game involved some careful work on his part, sending the bulk of the damage toward my character instead of at the rest of the group. He told me he's now nerfing enemy attacks except for my character; and planning to hold back some future item boosts while increasing our leveling rate (the game is milestone-driven). In other words, I think he's on the right track. 2 levels in as many sessions while gaining no items helped a lot.

...which is a good thing; the damage I was taking in each round would have wiped out any other party member in 1-2 rounds max. I still think I might suggest we ret-con out some of the benefits of the equipment I've picked up. A level-9 Barbarian shouldn't be doing 60-90 pts every round while still using a shield for AC 20.

Beating a CR 13 at 9th level? That sounds like normal 5E play to me, not anything relating to your magic items. 5E overstates monster difficulty.

Bear in mind, that was 3 L9 characters, not the standard 4, and came with zero planning time.

As things stand, I think we're good. It's mainly because the DM sees the same problem. My character is OK. The Bard and Ranger/Rogue, for those who are interested in party make-up, will get some kid gloves for a bit until their abilities come back up to level.

[MaxWilson]

...which is a good thing; the damage I was taking in each round would have wiped out any other party member in 1-2 rounds max. I still think I might suggest we ret-con out some of the benefits of the equipment I've picked up. A level-9 Barbarian shouldn't be doing 60-90 pts every round while still using a shield for AC 20.

*snip*

Bear in mind, that was 3 L9 characters, not the standard 4, and came with zero planning time.

Urk! You're right, that is not normal. At that DPR you could be beating multiple CR 13s, or CR 20s, which would contribute to your feeling of being glass cannons because CR 20s hit back pretty hard too. You're hitting as hard as 2 or 3 regular barbarians.

I agree, retconning the equipment sounds like a good move.

Good gaming to you!

[Man_Over_Game]

Unusually, for a change, I have to score you a clean miss on almost all counts. I was asking for ideas here, but like I said in the top post, I was going to talk to my DM. I'm a direct sort of guy. And it turns out that contrary to my guesses, he sees the same problem and has been worrying at it himself. Last night's game involved some careful work on his part, sending the bulk of the damage toward my character instead of at the rest of the group. He told me he's now nerfing enemy attacks except for my character; and planning to hold back some future item boosts while increasing our leveling rate (the game is milestone-driven). In other words, I think he's on the right track. 2 levels in as many sessions while gaining no items helped a lot.

...which is a good thing; the damage I was taking in each round would have wiped out any other party member in 1-2 rounds max. I still think I might suggest we ret-con out some of the benefits of the equipment I've picked up. A level-9 Barbarian shouldn't be doing 60-90 pts every round while still using a shield for AC 20.

Holy carp, no kidding. I thought we were talking like a slightly extreme 20 damage per attack, not whatever madness is going on in your game.


I am glad that your DM sees what problem is going on. The start to solving almost anything is communication.

[FrancisBean]

Urk! You're right, that is not normal. At that DPR you could be beating multiple CR 13s, or CR 20s, which would contribute to your feeling of being glass cannons because CR 20s hit back pretty hard too. You're hitting as hard as 2 or 3 regular barbarians.

I don't normally look for validation on my ideas, but given the reaction I was getting in the thread I'm glad to see that I'm not imagining the issue. Yes, I've got DM homebrewed weapons which are both heavy and versatile, two of them at +2, and a homebrewed item which permits me to dual-wield them when I don't want to use a shield. At d10 single-hand damage (d12 2H) + GWM's -5/+10 (they're heavy, 2H isn't the requirement!) and the boost from the belt of (fire-)giant strength, you can see how the damage stacks up. Mostly I've been keeping the shield up for AC20 and 2 (1H) attacks at +13 / 1d10+12 (raging) + GWM -5/+10 + a bonus shove or GWM cleave. The weapons both have targeted enemies at +2d6 by type, which puts me in the range I gave when I choose the right weapon.

I optimized for hit points -- I parry with my pectorals -- and am at 125. Most of the rest of the group is around half of that.

Moral of the story: there's a limit to "I made the party too strong, I'll just boost the opposition to offset."

[Man_Over_Game]

I don't normally look for validation on my ideas, but given the reaction I was getting in the thread I'm glad to see that I'm not imagining the issue. Yes, I've got DM homebrewed weapons which are both heavy and versatile, two of them at +2, and a homebrewed item which permits me to dual-wield them when I don't want to use a shield. At d10 single-hand damage (d12 2H + GWM's -5/+10 (they're heavy, 2H isn't the requirement!) and the boost from the belt of (fire-)giant strength, you can see how the damage stacks up. Mostly I've been keeping the shield up for AC20 and 2 (1H) attacks at +13 / 1d10+12 (raging) + GWM -5/+10 + a bonus shove or GWM cleave. The weapons both have targeted enemies at +2d6 by type, which puts me in the range I gave when I choose the right weapon.

I optimized for hit points -- I parry with my pectorals -- and am at 125. Most of the rest of the group is around half of that.

Moral of the story: there's a limit to "I made the party too strong, I'll just boost the opposition to offset."

I think it CAN work, but the problem is properly accounting for the fact that:

• Magic deals flat damage, rarely boosted by magical items.
• AC is generally difficult to scale properly
  
  • Boosting this means that low CR creatures are no longer relevant, meaning that as you gain levels, you're changing what's available in the Monster Manual rather than adding.
• HP is rarely impacted by magic items, and often is determined by class over anything else.

Everything works fine when magic items aren't included. Start tossing them into the mix, and people who rely on Magic or AC start to fall a bit behind. Barbarians, coincidentally, are neither.

[FrancisBean]

Now that I think about it, I'm surprised I haven't seen more threads about these problems in 5e. 5e is a bit more delicate to homebrew than earlier editions. What seemed like a good idea in prior editions is very game-breaking in 5e. And yes, my DM is from 3.5 and Pathfinder.

I've been politely trying to keep private the details you all keep asking me to give you because I'd rather my DM not have to see a hostile analysis of it all if he finds the thread. But since he's not on this forum, and this forum is big on politeness, enforced by our quick-draw moderators.... For your analysis, I present the collection of relevant items. Be polite for the sake of the DM in question in case he reads it in the future.

These are only the items for my character.

First I note that a houserule permits using the bonuses (+1/+2/+3) of magic items without attuning to them. You just don't get the other benefits.

There's a Shield +1. It also gives me flight if I'm attuned, but I'm not wasting a slot on that. As a BarBearian I can survive a fall from orbit at need.

There are 2 Dwarven Waraxes +2. These are homebrew weapons and are both Heavy and Versatile. The Versatility means they're 1d10 in one hand and 1d12 in two. One of them is +2d6 dmg against outsiders with a banishment rider. The other is +2d6 dmg against a large swath of enemies including aberrations, undead, celestials, fey, and fiends, and has a number of other benefits which aren't relevant here.

There's a homebrew pair of gauntlets which explicitly grant the ability to dual-wield the homebrew dwarven waraxes.

And for the piéce de resistance, there's a belt of fire giant strength which sets my strength at 25 (+7).

I'm playing a Hill Dwarf Barbarian, Bear Totem. I'm at 18 con, with Shield Mastery and Great Weapon Mastery. Strength is 25 because of the belt. I'm attuned to the belt and one of the axes and another item which isn't relevant here.

If I weren't a Hill Dwarf Barbearian, I'd feel pretty brittle. The other characters have around 60-ish hit points.

[Man_Over_Game]

Now that I think about it, I'm surprised I haven't seen more threads about these problems in 5e. 5e is a bit more delicate to homebrew than earlier editions. What seemed like a good idea in prior editions is very game-breaking in 5e. And yes, my DM is from 3.5 and Pathfinder.

I've been politely trying to keep private the details you all keep asking me to give you because I'd rather my DM not have to see a hostile analysis of it all if he finds the thread. But since he's not on this forum, and this forum is big on politeness, enforced by our quick-draw moderators.... For your analysis, I present the collection of relevant items. Be polite for the sake of the DM in question in case he reads it in the future.

These are only the items for my character.

First I note that a houserule permits using the bonuses (+1/+2/+3) of magic items without attuning to them. You just don't get the other benefits.

There's a Shield +1. It also gives me flight if I'm attuned, but I'm not wasting a slot on that. As a BarBearian I can survive a fall from orbit at need.

There are 2 Dwarven Waraxes +2. These are homebrew weapons and are both Heavy and Versatile. The Versatility mean they're 1d10 in one hand and 1d12 in two. One of them is +2d6 dmg against outsiders with a banishment rider. The other is +2d6 dmg against a large swath of enemies including aberrations, undead, celestials, fey, and fiends, and has a number of other benefits which aren't relevant here.

There's a homebrew pair of gauntlets which explicitly grant the ability to dual-wield the homebrew dwarven waraxes.

And for the piéce de resistance, there's a belt of fire giant strength which sets my strength at 25 (+7).

I'm playing a Hill Dwarf Barbarian, Bear Totem. I'm at 18 con, with Shield Mastery and Great Weapon Mastery. Strength is 25 because of the belt. I'm attuned to the belt and one of the axes and another item which isn't relevant here.

If I weren't a Hill Dwarf Barbearian, I'd feel pretty brittle. The other characters have around 60-ish hit points.

I'm not sure if 5e is really all that "delicate". What you're describing is just a bit...overboard.

One important thing to note, and just a solid thing to remember for everyone, is that a boring melee attack averages to about 10 damage. If you are able to double that, in any way, it should probably cost some kind of resource or legendary magical item. Your Dwarven Throwers deal +1 more damage than any other thrown weapon, are already +2 weapons, your belt increases damage by +2 more than the maximum should be, and that's before including the rider effects on your Throwers. Not to mention that you're Dual Wielding, so you're pulling out about 150% more attacks than other Barbarians.

Really, all your DM would have to do is remove the + bonuses from the Throwers, reduce them to 1d8/1d12's, make the riders only occur once per day, and make the belt scale with your Proficiency (so it'd only provide a modifier up to your proficiency). With those changes in mind, it'd be enough to put your Barbarian at relatively mortal levels.

3.5 and PF balanced everything around magical items, but also, 3.5 also was very unbalanced when it came to martial characters. It wouldn't matter how much magical gear you gave them, because they'd still have an uphill climb to catch up to the mages in the group. 5e tried to make it so that everyone is on the same level without magical gear, and adding magical items breaks that assumption (since most magical items don't help mages quite the same as they help martials).

[FrancisBean]

Your Dwarven Throwers ...

These aren't throwing weapons. Straight-up melee. The fact that they're both Heavy and Versatile is what worries me.

[Man_Over_Game]

These aren't throwing weapons. Straight-up melee. The fact that they're both Heavy and Versatile is what worries me.

Hah! Sorry, I was reading about throwers in another thread just a minute ago. Must have blended together or something. My bad.

Heavy and Versatile is a little weird. It wouldn't be that odd to limit GWM to only being available for a weapon wielded with both hands. That seems to be implied of the Heavy trait (that all Heavy weapons are Two Handed), although it's not said outright (likely because it hasn't had to have been said until someone starts adding custom traits).

[Keravath]

Consider having the DM add an NPC to the party. I suspect the issue is less being a glass cannon and more the fact that you only have 3 players in the party. The fewer the players, the more susceptible the group is to a bad die roll or two and the quicker things can go sideways.

This situation is then made worse as you move to higher level play since the opponents have higher level abilities.

Consider a 9th level caster opponent with some minions who upcasts Banishment on two party members and they both fail the save. The remaining party member is likely dead and the remaining creatures will set up to to finish off the other two when banishment ends.

Or perhaps the opponent casts feeblemind on your cleric or druid who fails the save (int save). No more healing.

Smaller parties have fewer actions, fewer options and far less resilience to a bad save or two. A party of 5 characters is far more flexible and a part of seven can usually afford a couple of fails.

In this case, the party and the DM might want to look at what skills are missing, what the party could use and then let them recruit an NPC to help the party. I think this might go some ways to addressing the way things feel currently.

[FrancisBean]

Consider having the DM add an NPC to the party. I suspect the issue is less being a glass cannon and more the fact that you only have 3 players in the party. The fewer the players, the more susceptible the group is to a bad die roll or two and the quicker things can go sideways.

We were playing down a player that night. Normally we're at 4 (Barbearian, Bard, Ranger, Artificer).

[PhoenixPhyre]

So let's recap.

You have
* 2 Very Rare-quality weapons: +2 (would normally only be rare, but also having +2d6 vs <type> and being Heavy/Versatile (d10/d12))
* 1 Very Rare belt
* 1 Epic-level boon letting you dual-wield them (it's a free feat++)

Your +ATK is +7 (STR) +4 (2x +2 weapons) + 4 (proficiency) = +15. Note that a level 17 barbarian would only have a +11 without magic items, so you have the same base ATK as a T4 barbarian before the magic weapons are considered. This lets you GWM -5/+10 at will with basically no penalty--a "normal" level 9 barbarian would only have a +9 ATK, so you basically get to attack with a +1 weapon and still get the GWM benefit.

You have an entire party's worth of items for a high T3/low T4 group (including a couple that should never have passed muster), a feat that's seriously unbalanced as a free boon, and another feat (GWM) that's unbalanced all by itself.

So yeah, you're tearing apart encounters that you shouldn't be able to...until one of them lands a hit. And unless the rest of the group is similarly kitted out, you're also making them irrelevant and putting them in even more danger by making the DM ramp up encounters against you personally. Stop this.

This isn't a system problem, this is a seriously over-permissive, Monty Haul DM problem. The solution is very simple. Give up the boon and the belt, turn the axes into just +1 handaxes (or only keep 1 and let it be a +2 normal battleaxe). Anything else will only make the situation more unstable.

[Keravath]

So let's recap.

You have
* 2 Very Rare-quality weapons: +2 (would normally only be rare, but also having +2d6 vs <type> and being Heavy/Versatile (d10/d12))
* 1 Very Rare belt
* 1 Epic-level boon letting you dual-wield them (it's a free feat++)

Your +ATK is +7 (STR) +4 (2x +2 weapons) + 4 (proficiency) = +15. Note that a level 17 barbarian would only have a +11 without magic items, so you have the same base ATK as a T4 barbarian before the magic weapons are considered. This lets you GWM -5/+10 at will with basically no penalty--a "normal" level 9 barbarian would only have a +9 ATK, so you basically get to attack with a +1 weapon and still get the GWM benefit.

You have an entire party's worth of items for a high T3/low T4 group (including a couple that should never have passed muster), a feat that's seriously unbalanced as a free boon, and another feat (GWM) that's unbalanced all by itself.

So yeah, you're tearing apart encounters that you shouldn't be able to...until one of them lands a hit. And unless the rest of the group is similarly kitted out, you're also making them irrelevant and putting them in even more danger by making the DM ramp up encounters against you personally. Stop this.

This isn't a system problem, this is a seriously over-permissive, Monty Haul DM problem. The solution is very simple. Give up the boon and the belt, turn the axes into just +1 handaxes (or only keep 1 and let it be a +2 normal battleaxe). Anything else will only make the situation more unstable.

Yep. I somewhat agree with the above sentiments. Before the OP described the gear they have available I was thinking they might be a bit over powered for their level. However, the amount and capability of items that the party appears to have is more consistent with previous versions of D&D which didn't have bounded accuracy. On the other hand, it isn't ridiculously over the top if the characters were a few levels higher.

Note: The +2 from the weapons do not stack on the to hit rolls - it is +2 for each weapon so the total to hit is +7 +2 +4 = 13. A +2 weapon at level 9 isn't that exceptional. Weapons that do d10+2d6 damage, are +2, can be dual wielded and count as heavy so that GWM can be applied are completely over the top. A barbarian might be expected to have 20 str by around level 9 so the belt is increasing the to hit by and damage by +2. However, all of this enables the barbarian to make all their attacks with GWM and land them more frequently.

However, I've played some games with level 11-16 barbarian/fighter multiclasses and this type of thing isn't out of the ordinary (though this is an extreme example). They did huge amounts of melee damage and were almost completely defenseless when we had to face a dragon. They were plinking away with bows and being generally pretty ineffective. If the bard in the party did not have Wall of Force to CC the dragon, the entire combat would have gone very badly for the barbarians. I've also seen tier 3 barbarians with a Girdle of Fire Giant Strength and a flame tongue great sword. The great sword does 4d6 damage. This isn't far off the OP's gear except that he can get the extra attack from dual wielding (or use one axe with a shield).

So overall, the dual wielded weapons are over the top (they let the barbarian make 3 GWM attacks/round - though remember the bonus action attack won't get the +7 damage from strength unless the character has the two weapon fighting style from multiclassing fighter) but most of the rest isn't too far from what you might see in tier 3 of Adventurers League. The real weakness here is likely that barbarians are typically bad at wisdom saves and have little or no ranged capability. Covering these depends on the rest of the party.

That said, unless all the other characters are also rolling in overpowered loot, the barbarian is going to shine in melee combat until they die. They are doing far more damage that can reasonably be expected from a character of that level and when the character go to face off against something that is really a threat - odds are good that characters will die - so the party should get used to this idea.

Some ideas that might be interesting - mindflayers and intellect devourers. Barbarians are usually bad at int saves :). Dragons or other flying ranged opponents. Barbarians are bad at these. Casters with minions. A good dominate person on the barbarian might give a TPK if the other characters can't run fast enough :) Keep in mind that intelligent enemies will take advantage of weaknesses in the party.

An additional point to consider is that encounters in D&D do get more dangerous at higher levels. It isn't the same as previous editions where save or die was much more common. However, a few bad die rolls (especially saves) can turn the tide in an encounter very abruptly so to some extent all characters can become a bit more of glass cannon at higher levels. Your party/character just makes the situation worse with overpowered magic items that don't really work well in this edition since they require you facing much tougher encounters. The DM can adjust it a bit by increasing the hit points of the creatures without buffing their offensive capabilities. They can also adjust encounters by adding more weaker opponents. Yes the barbarian will likely kill one or more/round but some of them will likely get in a few attacks and as long as the attacks do more than just hit point damage they will be a threat. (For example if a group of 4 or 5 banshees (CR4) attacked the party then it could be a challenge depending on who gets initiative and whether the characters make their saving throws against the wailing).

Anyway, if you want to take an edge off the barbarian, I would remove the versatile characteristic from the axes and get rid of the dual wielding gauntlets. This makes it impossible to use the axes with GWM and a shield or to dual wield them which is really where the broken aspect is creeping in (dual wielding heavy weapons increases the DPR too much, using one axe with a shield and GWM gives increased DPR from GWM without the associated AC penalty that is supposed to go with it. Since the barbarian has the shield master feat my guess is that the character's standard choice is to use one axe with GWM and a shield resulting in much higher AC and DPR than they should have).

As far as whether only the barbarian needs an adjustment or the other characters as well ... it would depend on what sort of gear the other characters have.

Last comment - if you want to make some changes here are my suggestions
1) Remove versatile from the axes. Get rid of the dual wielding gloves (at least in terms of dual wielding these axes) ... a magic item that requires attunement and provides the dual wielding fighting style wouldn't likely be too OP.
2) If items require attunement for benefits then they need to be attuned. Magic armor, shields and weapons don't need to be attuned to get the +1->+3 but any other effects do usually require attunement. The three item attunement limit is a fundamental balance element in 5e.
3) Adjust other player magic items as required.

[Sigreid]

Those weapons sound legendary rather than very rare.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Those weapons sound legendary rather than very rare.

Yeah, I was being conservative. Individually, they're only a bit overtuned. Together and able to dual wield? uhh....no.

[MaxWilson]

People on this thread are incorrect to focus on the dual wielding gloves. That isn't what matters.

If it were a +2 halberd instead (with the 2d6 + banishment rider, etc.), you'd get similar or better damage via GWM/PAM. But PAM halberd doesn't let you use a shield, and the OP said he's regularly dealing 60-90 DPR while using a shield for AC 20...

The giant strength, heavy property, and the +2d6 + banishment riders are probably more impactful than the gloves, which apparently aren't being used much anyway since all they do is enable dual wielding, which isn't being used.

[Keravath]

People on this thread are incorrect to focus on the dual wielding gloves. That isn't what matters.

If it were a +2 halberd instead (with the 2d6 + banishment rider, etc.), you'd get similar or better damage via GWM/PAM. But PAM halberd doesn't let you use a shield, and the OP said he's regularly dealing 60-90 DPR while using a shield for AC 20...

The giant strength, heavy property, and the +2d6 + banishment riders are probably more impactful than the gloves, which apparently aren't being used much anyway since all they do is enable dual wielding, which isn't being used.

Yep. The big issue is the versatile property with the heavy property on the axes which is enabling use of GWM on a weapon with d10+2d6 damage AND a magic shield which is simultaneously boosting the AC by +3 making them harder to hit even when they use reckless to attack.

[DevilMcam]

Assuming your DM is on board with this (because he has already seen the issue as well), I think the best you can do is getting rid of those big (over)powerfull weapons of yours, and probably of your teammates as well if they have such items.

You could sell them but that doesn't seem very heroic. The best thing is to turn them into big macguffins.
have them be stollen by the big bad for whatever evil plan he has, Bring forth the Tarasque and burry them deep into its head for it not to wake up again get someone kill and bargain the weapons away in exchange for his life. then once you are in the 17+ range, you can go look for these weapons again to face overwhelming odds.

On option for the DM is to scale the opposition differently, have the bad guys use controle spells rather than damaging ones boost their defence rather than offence, use swarm of smaller mooks with proper magical support (counterspells and such). It doesn't matter if you can deal 40 damage a blow if your enemies only have 10 hps.

[FrancisBean]

Just to close the loop for anybody who wanted to know how this was going....

• The other players have said they like the way the game is going. If they're having fun, I really don't have any arguments to make; my concern was mostly that they were all within one-shot range with the way enemies have been boosted. I've been having fun, but I was surprised to find out the rest of the group isn't feeling sidelined. That's the benefit of actually talking to people directly, the way we do at my table.
• If anybody wondered, yes, the rest of the group have their own similarly overpowered equipment. (At will Greater Invisibility for one character, just as an example.) They just don't have the hit points to handle the damage dealt from our opposition. Most of them can be downed in one round if they get careless, but the players are happy with it.
• I'm eschewing the dual-wielding pretty much permanently. I'm sticking to axe and shield, although still using GWM most of the time, and I'm playing as recklessly as possible: right into the middle of opposition and camping there. The breaking of my nose is a session trope.
• The DM has started changing up combats dramatically. The opposition is starting to be all about BFC, so damage is no longer the issue. The lair actions in particular are literally changing the field out from under our battles in most meaningful combats.

The point is, we're still hopelessly overpowered, the opposition is still hitting stupid hard, but apparently everybody is having fun. Which means it is, by definition, a win. Which means I can just relax and enjoy it. ::shrug:: Can I grab anybody a Mountain Dew?

[Agent-KI7KO]

If combat is very swingy, your GM shouldscale down the enemy CR but use mob maximum HP rather than averages.

A glass cannon doesn’t need to fight a dreadnought to be weak, just someone who can withstand one or two turns of their assaults.

[opaopajr]

... or the players could pick their characters' own battles.

But sure, OK, best of luck scrying the CR charts and lovingly craft an implied message to the GM that their campaign is spiraling into suck. Or have the adult-like Table Talk. Or enjoy the ride, and impending crash, as the others seem to be doing? Maybe one of those will work. Good luck!

[MoiMagnus]

.5e is balanced by attrition -- that is, it expects that you're going to get hit and wear down your hit points.

A word on this: my main DM (from multiple D&D editions) hate attrition battle.

Meaning that any battle we play are on the "deadly" side of difficulty (he essentially refuse to DM battles that just drain ressources without dangers, those are resolved with skill checks or role-play).

This work usually pretty well, with one convention needed for things to remain balanced: the monsters are not allowed to specifically attack 0HP PCs to kill them; and one small rule change: long rest give back all the hit point dices instead of half.

(One balance note: nova characters that are able to consume a lot of resources in few turns become stronger, but not absurdly so)

Though if you group prefer attrition battles, you should indeed talk to your DM.

[Particle_Man]

Give the magic items to a good guy church or kingdom and reap the social benefits for doing so.

[Demonslayer666]

A good way to handle this is to decrease the damage the monsters are doing and increase their defenses.