Not-So-Mith'd Opportunity: Random Banter # 222

[Peelee]

WRT Dr Black versus Mr Boddy, I find the way it clashes with the rest of the game to rob itself of the humour value. I mean, Dr Black even fits in with the other characters, or is the good Reverend Green now Mr Olive?

Like seriously, it is my most hated of the changes.

I guess that's why they got Tim Curry to say Mr. Boddy.

For reals, though, we can bond over our mutual love of that man, yes?

[LaZodiac]

I beg your pardon?

This means nothing to me.

WRT Dr Black versus Mr Boddy, I find the way it clashes with the rest of the game to rob itself of the humour value. I mean, Dr Black even fits in with the other characters, or is the good Reverend Green now Mr Olive?

Like seriously, it is my most hated of the changes.

Also, nine times out of ten the British version is funnier. And this has nothing to do with me having an English sense of humour!

Meanwhile Miss Peacock's sitting over here proving that there is no consistency what so ever in either version.

Rev. Green is also changed to just Mr Green, as an aside. Also America get's little figurines for the suspect tokens which is just inherently better than coloured triangles.

Maybe in your experience with media, but in mine not so much. But then the only example I can think of IS Pikmin 3, and maybe (maybe!!!) Dinner For Smucks, which was a pretty good americanization of Dinner Of Fools, but that's irrelevant since it's french and not British.

In all seriousness it's likely just a change of culture. Can't have a priest be a possible murderer, can't show a rich person being killed. They changed dagger to knife which is... odd, and the gun is different looking in each version, as is the wrench.

[SZbNAhL]

I'm not sure, but I heard it was difficult to redub every mention of Mr Boddy with his real name, Dr Black.

I assumed they'd just film every scene twice like they did in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Sorceror's Stone. This is why we shouldn't let the Americans rename things.

Actually, that's what annoys me the most. Shorten the game's name all you want,but why is the distinguished Dr Black now the nobody Mr Boddy. I mean, my sources indicate that you have learned individuals over there, and I might understand changing it off out jag been Lord Black (because people keep trying to convince me you don't have a peerage), but what's wrong with a names that denotes success.

They also defrocked Reverend Green. It's almost like they don't have drawing room murder mysteries in the colonies.

Are you foolin' around? They called him Mr Boddy because it's a joke. They made a joke. It's an obvious and very silly joke but they did it for the laughs. The big el oh el. The lulz if you will. [...] Across the pond people are like "ah yes, Dr Black, a distinguished individual who has now mercilessly [been] struck down. Find his killer!" and the Americanos are like "hah, boddy cause he's a corpse."

This is a pretty good example of the difference between British and American humour. We [semi-]subtly give them all colour-coded names corresponding to their personalities (the cleaner is White, the dead man is Black, the wealthy widow running low on money but still putting on appearances is Peacock, etc.). The Americans call the dead man Boddy. It's a wonder they didn't have Professor Book, Colonel Soldier and Miss Terry.

If I had to think of any other reason why they'd change it other than purely for the comedy of it, it's because having successful people die seems anathema to American sensibilities.

He lives in an extensive mansion with at least one servant. Still seems pretty successful to me.

Although now I want a version of Cluedo based off of The Apprentice, trying to work out who killed Lord Sugar.

It was James Dyson in the Singapore Penthouse with the Hypocritical Brexit Lobbying! Cluedo: British Billionaire Edition would indeed be fun.

Edit (this is what I get for getting distracted while in the middle of posting):

Maybe in your experience with media, but in mine not so much. But then the only example I can think of IS Pikmin 3, and maybe (maybe!!!) Dinner For Smucks, which was a pretty good americanization of Dinner Of Fools, but that's irrelevant since it's french and not British.

Wait, we're allowing non-game adaptaions? In that case:

• All in the Family was objectively worse than Till Death do us Part
• Ditto Sanford and Son vs. Steptoe and Son
• Ditto The Big Bang Theory vs. The IT Crowd
• Ditto Three's Company vs. Man About the House
• Ditto Beanes of Boston vs. Are You Being Served?
• Ditto all three attempts to remake Fawlty Towers
• Ditto Veep vs. The Thick of It

There are also more subjective cases, like Whose Line is it Anyway? or The Office, not to mention the many sitcoms whose remakes never made it past the pilot stage (Dad's Army, Vicar of Dibley, They Young Ones, The Thick of It (not to be confused with the other remake attempt, Veep), Spaced, Red Dwarf, Skins, etc.).

[Durkoala]

Okay so I'm at work so I can't actually shout and move around and pace to work this over in my head so please stop me if you're foolin' around but.

Are you foolin' around? They called him Mr Boddy because it's a joke. They made a joke. It's an obvious and very silly joke but they did it for the laughs. The big el oh el. The lulz if you will. This is a consistent thing I've noticed between European and American adapations, the American one always makes it funnier. Just look at how Pikmin 3 is dry and lifeless in Europe vs America. This happens all the time. Across the pond people are like "ah yes, Dr Black, a distinguished individual who has now mercilessly struck down. Find his killer!" and the Americanos are like "hah, boddy cause he's a corpse."

If I had to think of any other reason why they'd change it other than purely for the comedy of it, it's because having successful people die seems anathema to American sensibilities.



Worth it.

Dr Black is the same joke, just less in your face about it. Black's the colour of death and mourning, after all.

And of course he's a doctor, Cluedo is a pastiche of Agatha Christie-style murder novels, where a group of rich, successful and/or landed people gather together, some of them get killed and the rest scramble to find out who did it and why.

Edit: Ninja'd in a far better way by SZbNAhL.

[LaZodiac]

This is a pretty good example of the difference between British and American humour. We [semi-]subtly give them all colour-coded names corresponding to their personalities (the cleaner is White, the dead man is Black, the wealthy widow running low on money but still putting on appearances is Peacock, etc.). The Americans call the dead man Boddy. It's a wonder they didn't have Professor Book, Colonel Soldier and Miss Terry.

He lives in an extensive mansion with at least one servant. Still seems pretty successful to me.

I feel like I should specify I don't think Mr Boddy is a very funny joke, and that subtle colour coding as role thing doesn't really stand out to me either. Interesting idea though.

I mean he's also dead. That puts a hamper on it.

[Fyraltari]

This means nothing to me.

The Upside is an american remake* of the French highly successful movie Intouchables (techncally both adaptations of Philippe Pozzo di Borgo's autobiography Le Second Souffle (Second Breath)). both are comedies. Intoucheables is, as can be seen by both the viewer and critics consensus, funnier. Therefore American adaptations are not always funnier than European ones.

And there goes the frog.

*Because it's forbidden by law for Americans to watch a movie dubbed or subtitled apparently, no no they have to remake it and set it in the U.S.

[LaZodiac]

The Upside is an american remake* of the French highly successful movie Intouchables (techncally both adaptations of Philippe Pozzo di Borgo's autobiography Le Second Souffle (Second Breath)). both are comedies. Intoucheables is, as can be seen by both the viewer and critics consensus, funnier. Therefore American adaptations are not always funnier than European ones.

And there goes the frog.

*Because it's forbidden by law for Americans to watch a movie dubbed or subtitled apparently, no no they have to remake it and set it in the U.S.

I mean that's a pretty oblique metric. Rotten Tomatoes is a good aggregate but they're also barely seperated in the viewer form. And that's just one example. I'm sure both films are fine overall and it just becomes a matter of preference really.

Huh, never heard that one before.

(I mean a lot of British humour just isn't translatable to American's. There's nothing wrong with adaptation.)

[Algeh]

I'm allergic to soy, and seems like the whole world wants to kill me now, as soy is a cheap filler, so a lot of stuff has either soy protein or soy lecithin added.....

I thought over in Europe they tended to use sunflower lecithin rather than soy lecithin? I know most of the chocolates I've had any luck buying in soy-free versions have been European imports. (I am soy sensitive and my mother is full-on soy allergic. It is definitely the sneakiest of allergens because it can be in basically any kind of food and no one who isn't an allergic label-reader will realize that it's in the thing.)

There are different kinds? I thought people who reacted to pollen were just reacting to pollen in general.

Nope. My brother, for instance, was only allergic to certain plants that were West Coast exclusive. So when travelling to somewhere on the East Coast in the middle of allergy season? Could breathe perfectly fine.

My mom had a similar experience with basically getting a week off from her pollen allergies when she went to Hawaii on vacation.

[Anonymouswizard]

IThere are also more subjective cases, like Whose Line is it Anyway?

I really don't think that US version gets why Clive Anderson was the perfect host. Then again, the UK version also had a far more varied cast, I even got to see some of them live when I saw the Comedy Store players with my ex (Richard Vranch was wasted by keeping him out of the games).

Then again, Clive's hosting style is very much in the UK panel show host camp, the way he apparently takes everything seriously adds to the comedy, and I had no problem with him not participating with the babes because that was never hoax purpose. It would have been like Humph playing One Song to the Tune of Another.


Anyway, I'm watching the latest adaptation of Watership Down,and I'm really not enjoying what they did to Bigwig. He seems to have lost all his calm from the books, where he might have known he was the Moray experienced but still had the decency to listent o others. I like Bigwig, I don't like this strange rabbit.

[Fyraltari]

I mean that's a pretty oblique metric. Rotten Tomatoes is a good aggregate but they're also barely seperated in the viewer form. And that's just one example. I'm sure both films are fine overall and it just becomes a matter of preference really.

Huh, never heard that one before.

(I mean a lot of British humour just isn't translatable to American's. There's nothing wrong with adaptation.)

Well one is the biggest French cinematic success of the last two decades, the other is (as far as I can tell) universally described as not as good and less funny than the original.

Never heard what before?

Humor is humor, a joke doesn't become less funny because it's in a style your culture isn't known for.

[Honest Tiefling]

I thought over in Europe they tended to use sunflower lecithin rather than soy lecithin? I know most of the chocolates I've had any luck buying in soy-free versions have been European imports. (I am soy sensitive and my mother is full-on soy allergic. It is definitely the sneakiest of allergens because it can be in basically any kind of food and no one who isn't an allergic label-reader will realize that it's in the thing.)

Are you in the states? Because I'm heavily gluten-intolerant and it is VERY sneaky on this continent, as shared equipment basically rules out a lot of things for me. We should compare notes to see which wins.

Hell, Kellogs currently has a recipe on their website for a gluten-free dessert that is anything but.

[LaZodiac]

Wait, we're allowing non-game adaptaions? In that case:

• All in the Family was objectively worse than Till Death do us Part
• Ditto Sanford and Son vs. Steptoe and Son
• Ditto The Big Bang Theory vs. The IT Crowd
• Ditto Three's Company vs. Man About the House
• Ditto Beanes of Boston vs. Are You Being Served?
• Ditto all three attempts to remake Fawlty Towers
• Ditto Veep vs. The Thick of It

There are also more subjective cases, like Whose Line is it Anyway? or The Office, not to mention the many sitcoms whose remakes never made it past the pilot stage (Dad's Army, Vicar of Dibley, They Young Ones, The Thick of It (not to be confused with the other remake attempt, Veep), Spaced, Red Dwarf, Skins, etc.).

I obviously can't speak for all of these, but, um... The Big Bang Theory isn't an adaptation of The IT Crowd at all? It's just a miserable garbage sitcom.

Well one is the biggest French cinematic success of the last two decades, the other is (as far as I can tell) universally described as not as good and less funny than the original.

Never heard what before?

Humor is humor, a joke doesn't become less funny because it's in a style your culture isn't known for.

I mean I liked it, so bias and all that. It was a decent Steve Carrol comedy, if you liked say, The Anchorman you'd probably like it.

That saying that you said with the frog.

That's not even remotely true. Just ask basically any anime and manga fan. A TON of Japanese jokes do not translate over at all.

[Fyraltari]

I mean I liked it, so bias and all that. It was a decent Steve Carrol comedy, if you liked say, The Anchorman you'd probably like it.

Oh, I never said it wasn't a good movie (I don't know about that), just that the original consensus is "the european one is funnier". Don't know the Anchorman.

That saying that you said with the frog.

Oh, I like to mix my clichés a little bit.

That's not even remotely true. Just ask basically any anime and manga fan. A TON of Japanese jokes do not translate over at all.

Okay, I'll ask a nippophile friend of mine tomorrow.

[enderlord99]

That's not even remotely true. Just ask basically any anime and manga fan. A TON of Japanese jokes do not translate over at all.

Presumably because they are jokes that make use of the language itself. Puns and whatnot.

[LaZodiac]

Okay, I'll ask a nippophile friend of mine tomorrow.

Yikes. That's the word you're going to use for that?

Anyway, this discussion reminded me of how good the Clue movie actually is. I should watch it again...

[Honest Tiefling]

I've also heard that French/English translations just don't do well in general, but I only speak English, barely. Oddly, I've heard that German/English translations do much better since the languages are very close and the humor is easier to translate.

Through now I wonder if there is a language/culture that doesn't have puns at all in the works that are exported out.

[Fyraltari]

Yikes. That's the word you're going to use for that?

What? Is this a language barrier thing? This looks like a language barrier thing. I feel like I should state that this isn't supposed to have any sexual connotations, just to be on the safe side.

EDIT:

I've also heard that French/English translations just don't do well in general, but I only speak English, barely. Oddly, I've heard that German/English translations do much better since the languages are very close and the humor is easier to translate.

Let it be known that Patrick Couton (translator of the Discworld novels in French) is a god who walks among translators.

Through now I wonder if there is a language/culture that doesn't have puns at all in the works that are exported out.

No puns at all? Would they even be humans?

[LaZodiac]

{Scrubbed}

[Honest Tiefling]

Japanophile has been in use since the 18th century, but other words could be accurate depending on your relation to said person.

Nipponphile would follow the same pattern as Anglophile/Francophile, since English loves to mix up word origins. I think the extra 'n' makes it less giggle worthy, but still...Nipple.

[Fyraltari]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Wot?

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... There's more to japanes culture than mangas and animes. The dud enjoys all things japanese.

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"Clinical", "uncomfortable"? I'm not sure I understand.

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That's because that's a pun. Of course puns are hard to translate. When people talk about british humour, or american humour or jewish humour, or French humour or whatever they are talking about a cultural preference for dark humour, self-depreciating jokes, sarcasm or what have you. Not linguistic quirks.

[Honest Tiefling]

That's because that's a pun. Of course puns are hard to translate. When people talk about british humour, or american humour or jewish humour, or French humour or whatever they are talking about a cultural preference for dark huour, self-depreciating jokes, sarcasm or what have you. Not linguistic quirks.

I'd say it depends greatly on context. If someone were say, comparing works in Mandarin versus 'English' humor they could perhaps mean works produced in English as opposed to just British stuff.

But some languages have linguistical quirks that can produce wordplay that's not a pun. Japanese for instance, uses the Kanji script which can be often read in different ways. It's not that the word itself has multiple meanings or sounds similar to other readings, just a quirk with how the language is written.

[Fyraltari]

I'd say it depends greatly on context. If someone were say, comparing works in Mandarin versus 'English' humor they could perhaps mean works produced in English as opposed to just British stuff.

Yes? I'm not sure what that changes exactly beyond what particular cultur is being talked about.

But some languages have linguistical quirks that can produce wordplay that's not a pun. Japanese for instance, uses the Kanji script which can be often read in different ways. It's not that the word itself has multiple meanings or sounds similar to other readings, just a quirk with how the language is written.

How is that not a pun? What difference do you make between pun and wordplay?

[Honest Tiefling]

How is that not a pun? What difference do you make between pun and wordplay?

Well, if you use the "a joke exploiting the different possible meanings of a word or the fact that there are words which sound alike but have different meanings" definition, it falls flat as the words themselves don't have the multiple meanings, the written characters do. Basically, it's not just that the meaning of words of a language can be hard to translate, but certain parts of language that don't exist in other languages.

[Peelee]

*Because it's forbidden by law for Americans to watch a movie dubbed or subtitled apparently, no no they have to remake it and set it in the U.S.

We made an exception for Life is Beautiful.

[SZbNAhL]

Clive's hosting style is very much in the UK panel show host camp, the way he apparently takes everything seriously adds to the comedy, and I had no problem with him not participating with the babes because that was never hoax purpose.

I know you means "games" and "his", but I love the mental image of Clive Anderson completely ignoring a gratuitous bikini model while continuing to host the programme because "I never participate with babes unless it's for the purposes of a hoax".

I obviously can't speak for all of these, but, um... The Big Bang Theory isn't an adaptation of The IT Crowd at all? It's just a miserable garbage sitcom.

The lives of a pair of socially inept geeks, one of whom is autistic, are inverted by the arrival of a socially proficient but non-geek-literate woman who forces them to interact with the outside world. Just because they don't pay the royalties doesn't mean it's not a remake.

[Honest Tiefling]

We made an exception for Life is Beautiful.

There's a handful of exceptions, I guess we just have a quota that we'll allow one movie in a different language a year and that's it. We'll acknowledge the rest of the world's refusal to use English, but not all the time.

[Peelee]

I
I mean I liked it, so bias and all that. It was a decent Steve Carrol comedy, if you liked say, The Anchorman you'd probably like it.

Anchorman is the best argument the British, or anyone else, could pull out if they wanted to advocate for the downfall of American cinema. Truly, that was our darkest hour.

[Honest Tiefling]

Anchorman is the best argument the British, or anyone else, could pull out if they wanted to advocate for the downfall of American cinema. Truly, that was our darkest hour.

Haven't seen it, so how does it compare to Cool as Ice and Jack***: The Movie?

[Peelee]

Haven't seen it, so how does it compare to Cool as Ice and Jack***: The Movie?

Haven't seen Jackass, haven't heard of Cool as Ice. That said, it's unequivocally worse. I envy your blissfully Anchorman-less life.

[Tvtyrant]

Anchorman is the best argument the British, or anyone else, could pull out if they wanted to advocate for the downfall of American cinema. Truly, that was our darkest hour.

Not seen Kangaroo Jack then? Tsk.

I always thought the reason British people are so funny mirrored clowns, it is because they are so sad.

Spoiler

Show

joking of course.