Would this sword be to strong for a level 7 character? (including lore)

[ShirAhn]

Lore:
This Sword was once in the possession of Lady Beony, a paladin and member of the Tranquil Guard. The Tranquil Guard is a society of volunteers who swore to protect the realm from evil. Lady Beony was stationed near a rift inside a mountain that leads into the shadow realm. She and few select elite troops made sure anything evil coming out of the rift was swiftly dealt with and no innocents were able to travel through. One day a band of foolish thugs looking for gold and reputation attacked Lady Beony and her troops. The highly skilled Tranquil Guard fought bravely and were easily defeating the thugs even though outnumbered three to one. With a song on her lips Lady Beony struck down the bandit captain and the thugs began to flee.

The bandits had one capable wizard however and while fleeing he cast a spell that caused a cave-in trapping the members of the righteous order. Unable to escape the cavern and knowing hunger would eventually take their lives Lady Beony made the hard choice to defend the realm from evil at all cost. She and her loyal members sacrificed their lives to empower the already fine blade and imbuing it with their life essence. The sword is now stuck into the stone and keeping the magical circle on the rift intact and keeping the undead at bay.

EDIT: updated the item (again)
OLD VERSION(S) << >> Latest Version

End of lore:

The party will find its way into the cave and have the option to take the sword. Doing so gives them a powerful weapon that will help them on their journey through the shadow fell, but also removes the protected barrier around the rift, allowing undead to enter the realm. The party consists of 4 level 7 players, a Bard, a Blood Hunter (Matt Mercers) a Cleric and a Sorcerer.

I would appreciate any input you guys can give me. Thank you!

** EDIT added some thoughts:

Thank you all for responding and trying to help me "fix" this item. Its quite important to me because I love the Lady and she has become kinda special to me. I am actually considering adding a dark version of her in the shadowfell and have her drop a "negative" version of the sword. She can be a "boss fight" So if anyone has idea's on this version of the sword please feel free to share them.

[Rukelnikov]

Nah, its good, gl hf

[MightyDuck]

I mean, what are the swords stats, what does it do? It's kinda hard to gauge how strong it is without knowing that. I assume it's going to be pretty powerful but this can mean several things. If it's purely a damage dealing sword or exclusively provides a combat advantage to a single player, then I'd suggest against it, since it could unbalance the party, however, if it has a more support oriented effect, that benefits the whole party regardless of whose wielding it then it'll probably be fine.

But yeah, I'd need to know what it does to make a judgement, in low magic settings, a weapon with a backstory that grand could simply be a +1, whereas in a high magic setting it could easily be something legendary.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Yes, but what does it do?

[ShirAhn]

I mean, what are the swords stats, what does it do? It's kinda hard to gauge how strong it is without knowing that. I assume it's going to be pretty powerful but this can mean several things. If it's purely a damage dealing sword or exclusively provides a combat advantage to a single player, then I'd suggest against it, since it could unbalance the party, however, if it has a more support oriented effect, that benefits the whole party regardless of whose wielding it then it'll probably be fine.

But yeah, I'd need to know what it does to make a judgment, in low magic settings, a weapon with a backstory that grand could simply be a +1, whereas in a high magic setting it could easily be something legendary.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, I will try and answer your questions. You ask what the weapon can do? I thought the image I provided would answer this question but maybe I am wrong. The sword is a longsword +2 (+3 vs undead) So it is a 1d8 + strength modifier + 2 while wielding 1 handed and 1d10 + strength + 2 when wielding two-handed (+3 vs undead). The party only has one other +2 weapon so far but they do have some "minor" magical items.

The sword also allows the casting of the following spells (at the cost of charges and the players action), You can click the links for extra description

• Zone of Truth, 2nd level (2 charges)
• Magic Circle, 3rd level (3 charges)
• Death Ward, 4th level (3 charges)
• Flame Strike, 5th level (4 charges)

I hope this explains it better.

[Wizard_Lizard]

seems alright, very powerful, but not too overpowered. Maybe less spells/weaker spells, but otherwise dhould be ok.

[DeTess]

I might change the charge costs for the spells a bit to more closely match the spell level, but apart from that it seems fine. However, if the party takes the sword, over the next couple of levels you should give out some items of similar power for those in the party that didn't get the sword. Sure, the sword might might seem like its a boost to the party rather than one individual, but chances are that the players without a fancy magic artifact won't feel that way.

If you do not intend to hand out a bunch of similar items for the rest of the party, then the sword messes badly with intra-party balance, which is not a good thing.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

The spells benefit all the party and the flame strike will give them an AOE if they need more AOE.

It is extra good vs undead so make sure you also give them non undead enemies so it will not fill overpowered.

I say it is good like it is.

[ShirAhn]

I might change the charge costs for the spells a bit to more closely match the spell level, but apart from that it seems fine. However, if the party takes the sword, over the next couple of levels you should give out some items of similar power for those in the party that didn't get the sword. Sure, the sword might might seem like its a boost to the party rather than one individual, but chances are that the players without a fancy magic artifact won't feel that way.

If you do not intend to hand out a bunch of similar items for the rest of the party, then the sword messes badly with intra-party balance, which is not a good thing.

This is good advice, I will make other items for the rest of the party as well, would you recommend making the items specifically for a player in mind? I feel powerful magic items need a story to make them feel more "special". The chances that the story fits their character perfectly seems unlikely at best.

[DeTess]

This is good advice, I will make other items for the rest of the party as well, would you recommend making the items specifically for a player in mind? I feel powerful magic items need a story to make them feel more "special". The chances that the story fits their character perfectly seems unlikely at best.

I personally would keep the players in mind for the other items to make sure they get something useful for their character (as this sword will likely go to whoever it it most useful for), but imho it doesn't have to be perfectly tailor-made, just useful to whoever it ends up with. So if, for example, the cleric has warcaster and fights with a mace and a shield, they would be best served with a 1-handed mace, while the bard might be best served with either a rapier or a magical instrument of some sort, but tailoring past that is most likely unnecessary.

Since the players are going to be travelling through the shadowfell, you could take some inspiration from the myth of Orpheus and include a magical harp for the bard, for example.

[darknite]

I don't see a problem with it. It's nice to see more unique weapons out there.

[Toofey]

IMO too powerful. More than "Tier" pluses as well as spell powers more than 2 levels beyond the level of the party.

Think about it this way, you choose a cleric you play a cleric for 7 levels, and all of a sudden the fighter of the party has the most powerful cleric spell... probably isn't too thrilling.

Or you're the cleric, you get a sword that's a better spellcaster than you are... again, not the best.

This is all my opinion and there are certainly plot purposes that can justify "overpowered" magic items, but that's a tier 4 sword in a tier 2 game and it's going to outshine your player's characters.

[ShirAhn]

IMO too powerful. More than "Tier" pluses as well as spell powers more than 2 levels beyond the level of the party.

Think about it this way, you choose a cleric you play a cleric for 7 levels, and all of a sudden the fighter of the party has the most powerful cleric spell... probably isn't too thrilling.

Or you're the cleric, you get a sword that's a better spellcaster than you are... again, not the best.

This is all my opinion and there are certainly plot purposes that can justify "overpowered" magic items, but that's a tier 4 sword in a tier 2 game and it's going to outshine your player's characters.

Thank you for replying, appreciate your input. I have changed it the holy weapon spell. Holy Weapon Spell is USUALLY cast as a bonus action and now takes an action making it a bit more balanced. Do you agree?

Holy Weapon

[darknite]

Another method of balancing would be for the sword to require a resource to work. One idea might be to have it consume half of its' wielder's hit dice every morning. I like the idea about the bonus action spell now requiring both charges and a full action to activate. In the end you'll need to observe what effect the item has on the game and apply a bit of encounter adjustments for a while if necessary.

[ShirAhn]

Another method of balancing would be for the sword to require a resource to work. One idea might be to have it consume half of its' wielder's hit dice every morning. I like the idea about the bonus action spell now requiring both charges and a full action to activate. In the end you'll need to observe what effect the item has on the game and apply a bit of encounter adjustments for a while if necessary.

Yes, and the can most likely only use it once every two days and it also has the disadvantage that lying (deception) becomes harder for the wielding player.

I will consider changing it in the future if it seems too strong.

[Keravath]

Overall I like the lore and the description. The weapon is more powerful than would be typical for level 7 but not by a huge amount.

However, given the nature of the lore and balance considerations, I think it would make the most sense to stick to defensive paladin spells. Presumably Lady Beony was a 20th level paladin or something close to it (otherwise she wouldn't even have access to 5th level spells).

Flamstrike wasn't a paladin spell in the first place, it was a clerical spell. Holy Weapon is a massive increase to weapon damage doing a rarely resisted type on top of that. The weapon goes from doing d10 to d10+2d8 for an hour. For a character with multi attack this will be a significant boost.

As a result, I'd suggest defensive spells only, in which case Circle of Power (5th) might be useful, thematic and not too OP.

I would also remove the feature that allows it to recharge by killing undead and instead make the recharge rate 1d4+2 daily at dawn. This allows for a lucky roll to fully recharge the weapon. You could also adjust the charge requirements to match the spell level at 2,3,4,5 which means that you are unlikely to get to use the larger spells two days in a row which will make these abilities great for specific fights but not game changing. On the other hand, if you want the characters to be able to cast 2 x death ward in preparation for a fight then keeping it at 3 might make sense.

Finally, if the character uses the blade to cast a spell that requires concentration then it will use their concentration to maintain it.

[ShirAhn]

Overall I like the lore and the description. The weapon is more powerful than would be typical for level 7 but not by a huge amount.

However, given the nature of the lore and balance considerations, I think it would make the most sense to stick to defensive paladin spells. Presumably Lady Beony was a 20th level paladin or something close to it (otherwise she wouldn't even have access to 5th level spells).

Flamstrike wasn't a paladin spell in the first place, it was a clerical spell. Holy Weapon is a massive increase to weapon damage doing a rarely resisted type on top of that. The weapon goes from doing d10 to d10+2d8 for an hour. For a character with multi attack this will be a significant boost.

As a result, I'd suggest defensive spells only, in which case Circle of Power (5th) might be useful, thematic and not too OP.

I would also remove the feature that allows it to recharge by killing undead and instead make the recharge rate 1d4+2 daily at dawn. This allows for a lucky roll to fully recharge the weapon. You could also adjust the charge requirements to match the spell level at 2,3,4,5 which means that you are unlikely to get to use the larger spells two days in a row which will make these abilities great for specific fights but not game changing. On the other hand, if you want the characters to be able to cast 2 x death ward in preparation for a fight then keeping it at 3 might make sense.

Finally, if the character uses the blade to cast a spell that requires concentration then it will use their concentration to maintain it.

Appreciate your response and you have some valid points. I will consider swapping the spells however I would like to give them something offensive.

[Keravath]

Appreciate your response and you have some valid points. I will consider swapping the spells however I would like to give them something offensive.

You might want to consider swapping the 5th level spell then for either a first or second level smite spell.

Wrathful or Thunderous smite could be cast 6 times if they used 1 charge each while Branding Smite would cost 2 charges. Finally, the 5th level Banishing Smite would be powerful and would cost 4 or 5 charges.

These would give some offensive ability. The only problem is that the level 1 smites would allow for 6 uses/day which might be a bit much. On the other hand, they are an extra 2d6 damage (or 1d6 + save vs fear) once/combat round. However, these would need to remain bonus actions rather than actions to make them worthwhile. These are probably more balanced than 2d8 damage on every attack made for an hour.

[deljzc]

You could also restrict the magic circle to ONLY undead, since the flavor of the sword is anti-undead, not anti-elemental or anti-fey.

I assume you are getting it "free" (no material component) which is normally 100gp per time.

The 5th level spell does make it a bit overpowered in my opinion. I know this isn't what you want, but I might consider eliminating that all-together for a 7th level weapon.

I think it is fair to that you keep the spell level of the weapon equivalent to the spells available at that level. So to me, this is a 9th level weapon (and a pretty cool one).

Not to say you can't give that to a 7th level party. They will "grow into it" and have a lot of fun using it. There is no rule that magic treasure always have to be perfectly level-appropriate. Sometimes players find junk magic stuff in 7th level dungeons. No reason they can't find something a bit overpowered as well.

[Wildarm]

EDIT: updated the item

Too strong for Tier2 IMO. Perhaps a Tier3 item. The spells attached are just too strong. To balance it more, I'd have the sword ONLY regain charges when it kills undead/fiends in glorious combat(no spamming animate dead). It loses all charges at dusk.

That means, while the player is actively fighting undead/fiends he can charge up sword and unleash a burst of holy radiance as the gods smile upon his efforts. Bit of a black panther vibe. Very dramatic in the middle of combat.

This method has a few bonuses, you as the DM have much more control over the power level of the weapon. The player feels like an active agent in gaining power with each swing and may even change his behavior to get those kills. Also encourages players to push. Sword is fully charged? We should really just take a short rest and keep going guys. We got this!

[ShirAhn]

Too strong for Tier2 IMO. Perhaps a Tier3 item. The spells attached are just too strong. To balance it more, I'd have the sword ONLY regain charges when it kills undead/fiends in glorious combat(no spamming animate dead). It loses all charges at dusk.

That means, while the player is actively fighting undead/fiends he can charge up sword and unleash a burst of holy radiance as the gods smile upon his efforts. Bit of a black panther vibe. Very dramatic in the middle of combat.

This method has a few bonuses, you as the DM have much more control over the power level of the weapon. The player feels like an active agent in gaining power with each swing and may even change his behavior to get those kills. Also encourages players to push. Sword is fully charged? We should really just take a short rest and keep going guys. We got this!

Thank you for responding, you have some great thoughts. I balanced the sword a little using your feedback and that of Kervath (see below). His feedback of having only defensive spells really fits the theme and removes a really strong spell making it a bit more balanced. I also changed the recharge rate so Its very hard to use the more powerful spells on a daily basis. Only charging it when fighting undead/fiends feels too weak to me because they won't be fighting undead/fiend alot and it would remove the funkiness of the sword. I considered adding charges when you kill/deal damage to anything evil. But that would be very hard to DM so I changed it to the current version:



Im curious to see what you think, thanks again.

Overall I like the lore and the description. The weapon is more powerful than would be typical for level 7 but not by a huge amount.

However, given the nature of the lore and balance considerations, I think it would make the most sense to stick to defensive paladin spells. Presumably Lady Beony was a 20th level paladin or something close to it (otherwise she wouldn't even have access to 5th level spells).

Flamstrike wasn't a paladin spell in the first place, it was a clerical spell. Holy Weapon is a massive increase to weapon damage doing a rarely resisted type on top of that. The weapon goes from doing d10 to d10+2d8 for an hour. For a character with multi attack this will be a significant boost.

As a result, I'd suggest defensive spells only, in which case Circle of Power (5th) might be useful, thematic and not too OP.

[Wildarm]

Thank you for responding, you have some great thoughts. I balanced the sword a little using your feedback and that of Kervath (see below). His feedback of having only defensive spells really fits the theme and removes a really strong spell making it a bit more balanced. I also changed the recharge rate so Its very hard to use the more powerful spells on a daily basis. Only charging it when fighting undead/fiends feels too weak to me because they won't be fighting undead/fiend alot and it would remove the funkiness of the sword. I considered adding charges when you kill/deal damage to anything evil. But that would be very hard to DM so I changed it to the current version:



Im curious to see what you think, thanks again.

5th level Paladin spells like circle of power are deceptively strong. That's a Tier4 spell unless a bard poaches it and then it's still tier 3. 1/day Circle of Power is going to give you nightmares as DM when it comes to designing challenging encounters at tier 2/3. Challenging your group with any magic based encounters is going to be very difficult. As a DM I would not recommend giving out an item that can spam that every day.

I understand you want this to feel epic, so include a trade off to not make your life as a DM more difficult. Perhaps the sword can cast circle of power but then loses all magical traits until it as been embedded in hallowed stone and the dawn has shone on it's hilt for at a week.

I would also not include Death Ward on the item. It's too optimal a spell. With that on there(if I was a player) I'd be casting that on myself with the charges from the sword each day. It effectively becomes a +2 sword that will save you from dying 1/day. All the other abilities would never be used.

Perhaps try some something more like:

1 Charge - Protection from Good and Evil - Self Only
2 Charges - Zone of Truth
3 Charges - Magic Circle

It makes the sword more utility and Prot from Good and Evil is VERY good and fits with the defensive nature of the sword.

[ShirAhn]

5th level Paladin spells like circle of power are deceptively strong. That's a Tier4 spell unless a bard poaches it and then it's still tier 3. 1/day Circle of Power is going to give you nightmares as DM when it comes to designing challenging encounters at tier 2/3. Challenging your group with any magic based encounters is going to be very difficult. As a DM I would not recommend giving out an item that can spam that every day.

I understand you want this to feel epic, so include a trade off to not make your life as a DM more difficult. Perhaps the sword can cast circle of power but then loses all magical traits until it as been embedded in hallowed stone and the dawn has shone on it's hilt for at a week.

I would also not include Death Ward on the item. It's too optimal a spell. With that on there(if I was a player) I'd be casting that on myself with the charges from the sword each day. It effectively becomes a +2 sword that will save you from dying 1/day. All the other abilities would never be used.

Perhaps try some something more like:

1 Charge - Protection from Good and Evil - Self Only
2 Charges - Zone of Truth
3 Charges - Magic Circle

It makes the sword more utility and Prot from Good and Evil is VERY good and fits with the defensive nature of the sword.

Thank you so much for giving me feedback, I have never DMed this high a level so I am a bit inexperienced. I will take your feedback as truth and have changed it once more. If you have time, please let me know what you think.

[Wildarm]

Looks like a pretty solid sword now. Might want to change the save bonus to 1/LR. Adding 2d4 to a failed save once per short rest is fairly strong. A paladin with that would basically likely almost never fail a save. Alternate idea:

As a reaction, expend a number of charges(Max 3) to add +1d4 per spent charge to a failed saving throw.

Gives some flexibility but the player has to choose how much of the swords power to invest in the bonus and it completes with the other abilities of the weapon so the player needs to make a meaningful choice.

[Keravath]

Thank you so much for giving me feedback, I have never DMed this high a level so I am a bit inexperienced. I will take your feedback as truth and have changed it once more. If you have time, please let me know what you think.

I'd say that now it is a decent and flavourful magic item. The saving throw bonus 1/SR seems like a nice addition too.

Circle of Power is an awesome spell but it IS tier 4 for paladin's and tier 3 for bards who take it at 10th level. It was better (in my opinion) than the Flamestrike option you had originally, but I think this version without the 4th and 5th level spells is a much better alternative overall.