OOTS #1168 - The Discussion Thread

[Riftwolf]

This comic makes no sense whatsoever

Why are Dwarven Elders meeting round a WOODEN table?

No sense whatsoever

[Algeh]

I like how the whole inner chamber has this blueish light all over. Look at Whiterock's leader hair, we know it's white, but here it has this cyanish color.

It reassures everyone that they are under strict dwarven law here. Nice touch.

Great catch! I'd noticed the slightly different coloring on the council panels, but had't thought about why it might be that way. I think my brain just parsed it as a "printing error" even though that didn't make actual sense.

...I actually do want someone to stat up a Lawyer class now. I just want to kill a Skeleton with the power of OSHA! Is that too much to ask?

I once had a player in a GURPS game play an intellectual property lawyer. Sadly, I didn't manage to work that particular fact into the main plot in any meaningful way, since the game took place on a different continent than the PC was licensed in, and I was not able to loop a relevant IP issue into the ongoing plot before the game fell apart a year or so later.

Dwarven Filibuster, obviously.

Is that like a Cleric's Feather Fall?

[HUMVEE Driver]

No one is that dumb.

Piss poor comic this time.

[Peelee]

No one is that dumb.

Piss poor comic this time.

Ivan is sad that his legacy is forgotten.

[DaOldeWolf]

No one is that dumb.

Piss poor comic this time.

I dont know. I think people can feel detached enough about boring situations that they would go for the easy mindless solution than drag on something that has been called in comic as boring and annoying. Especially, if you feel safe and confident about being safe.

[woweedd]

This comic makes no sense whatsoever

Why are Dwarven Elders meeting round a WOODEN table?

No sense whatsoever

Hey, that table represents a great victory over the forces of Tree!

[BriarHobbit]

There is the possibility that some of those dwarven politicians are just painfully dumb. Others might have a sense of self-preservation. If you are not high level, you do not want to face an angry vampire. I suppose some politicians might be curious to see what the vampire has in mind. There might be some other facts that we don't yet know. So, this might not just be a laugh at the notion that the hide-bound dwarves need a committee to investigate a self-evident problem. For all I know, some internal security might have been activated. This is one of those comics that might need some more context.

[Necris Omega]

Proposed subtitles for Order of the Stick:

Chaos will always win, because Law is dumb

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Chaos will always win, because Law is dumb

Counterpoint: Elan.

Grey Wolf

[Rrmcklin]

Proposed subtitles for Order of the Stick:

Chaos will always win, because Law is dumb

Counterpoint: Elan.

Grey Wolf

Additional counterpoint: Most of the prominent paladins aside from Miko.

[The MunchKING]

Counterpoint: Elan.

Grey Wolf

Just because Law is dumb doesn't mean Chaos isn't also Dumb.


*nods seriously*

[Necris Omega]

Counterpoint: Elan.

Grey Wolf

One idiot cannot compete against a whole council of politically empowered idiots.

Also, Elan's idiocy and alignment are mostly independent of one another, while every time we have anything resembling a lawful body...?



The only outstanding exception I can think of off hand is Lord Shojo. He was smart. He was good. And he was in charge. Problem is, even as brilliant as he was, he had to play dumb for sheer survival's sake. That's not just natural lawful stupidity, that's lawful stupidity by penalty of death.

Except he wasn't lawful, and the actual lawful entities were in the dark about it.

Now, the argument can be made that if society functioned and civic powers could do anything right, there'd be no reason for the Order to... exist, basically. But, as the fall of Azure City proves, you can have both dire threats and at least semi-functioning authorities. That said, the extent to which it is underpinned less by "the authorities can't handle a threat of this magnitude" and more "the authorities can't handle it because they lost the operations manual to their pants" is less comedic at this point and just getting tedious.

[Rrmcklin]

One idiot cannot compete against a whole council of politically empowered idiots.

Also, Elan's idiocy and alignment are mostly independent of one another, while every time we have anything resembling a lawful body...?



The only outstanding exception I can think of off hand is Lord Shojo. He was smart. He was good. And he was in charge. Problem is, even as brilliant as he was, he had to play dumb for sheer survival's sake. That's not just natural lawful stupidity, that's lawful stupidity by penalty of death.

Now, the argument can be made that if society functioned and civic powers could do anything right, there'd be no reason for the Order to... exist, basically. But, as the fall of Azure City proves, you can have both dire threats and at least semi-functioning authorities. That said, the extent to which it is underpinned less by "the authorities can't handle a threat of this magnitude" and more "the authorities can't handle it because they lost the operations manual to their pants" is less comedic at this point and just getting tedious.

Shojo wasn't Lawful. And exactly how many lawful bodies have we even seen? Because you're making a very bold claim here.

[Emperor Time]

Not the best of compromises but a just and lawful one nevertheless. At least in the Dwarven way of thinking. Which usually works out in the end for the better party.

[Psyren]

Genuine question, devoid of snark--is there a reason to quibble over this, beyond pedantry?

It's zimmer, pedantry is ambrosia.

No one is that dumb.

You'd think that, buuuut... *gestures vaguely*

[Ruck]

I really didn't like this one. It felt like not only low-hanging fruit but buying into the same idiotic conspiracy theories that keep swirling around.
"After we dismissed the idea of foreign interference as stupid and declared it's impossible to rig the election, now we say the election was rigged and a foreign power interfered! We have proof! No, you can't see the proof. No, we're not even going to share the proof with the intelligence agencies. Now we're setting up a two-year circus to arrest people and violate as many civil liberties as we can. What, after two years there's no evidence? That means guilt!"

Yeah I think you're projecting.

No one is that dumb.

Piss poor comic this time.

You ought to meet more people.

[woweedd]

Yeah, bureaucracy as a general term keeps getting a level of hatred that is kind of undeserved when you consider what the original administrative model intended. The whole idea of having defined procedures to do things revolves around the concept of "we have procedures pre-made, so we will do things in a more efficient way, and in a way that is transparent to everyone". Of course, there are some differences beetween the idea and the way she's implemented in many places...



Yeah, people keep taking on Dvalin and forget that many other gods voted YES, some for reasons way worse than "asking the dwarves to decide". (I'm looking at you, "bored of this world" Njord)




But Paladins need to be Good in 3.5, isn't it?

That was the original joke.

[Grey Watcher]

No one is that dumb.

I envy you, sir-madam-or-preferred-honorific, that your life has let you believe this level of stupidity is implausible.

[Lkctgo]

Although Dwarves have been portrayed as fairly daft/stupid in-comic (at least with their weird ritualistic society), they are also known for expressing a deep hatred for undead (mostly due to undeath being Hel's domain). I understand that they haven't heard the question from Dvalin yet, but why would they willingly accept a Hel majority in their council vote?

I get that it's a funny punchline, that bureaucracy triumphs good sense, but that's out of character for the dwarven race.

[Peelee]

I envy you, sir-madam-or-preferred-honorific, that your life has let you believe this level of stupidity is implausible.

Hell, on a bad day *I* can reach that level!

[Psychronia]

I feel like I should be more annoyed or upset with this development than I am.

It's goofy, it's fun, and it is definitely...*sigh* definitely realistic.

Kudos on that one guy for making a perception check or something, I guess.

[factotum]

This comic makes no sense whatsoever

Why are Dwarven Elders meeting round a WOODEN table?

No sense whatsoever

Yeah, it would be like a king making his throne out of the melted-down swords of his defeated enemies just to show the others what will happen if they make any trouble...completely nonsensical.

[Thecommander236]

Can I just say that I'm annoyed when the story has to be driven forward by the characters being utter ****ing idiots?

[Cazero]

Following proper procedure in a chamber that turn people who don't into stone is idiocy now?

[Kantaki]

Can I just say that I'm annoyed when the story has to be driven forward by the characters being utter ****ing idiots?

Err... Isn't that the norm with this comic?

[Bacon Elemental]

Following proper procedure in a chamber that turn people who don't into stone is idiocy now?

I actually think this is a point a lot of people have been overlooking! I imagine that, not knowing the stakes (This is an uncommon meeting of non-politician aristocrats who dont want to be here very much), the council members are in fact likely to be highly averse to doing anything which might technically be a breach of dwarven law. They're not like, lawyers. The vampires probbably know better than the councillors what the relevant sections of extremely rules-as-written law are.

edit: missed the main point i was making: Aka the council members dont want to be turned to stone for no good reason, and their attitude towards the summons from Lord Dvalin (Who is notorious for making the clan chiefs gather and vote for anything asked of him) is so dismissive that I'm sure they assume its going to be about divine sandwiches or similar.

[woweedd]

Can I just say that I'm annoyed when the story has to be driven forward by the characters being utter ****ing idiots?

I’m pretty sure the rest of the council will be dominated in short order. Rich probably would have just cut to that but, well, that wouldn’t have been very funny.

[ijuinkun]

edit: missed the main point i was making: Aka the council members dont want to be turned to stone for no good reason, and their attitude towards the summons from Lord Dvalin (Who is notorious for making the clan chiefs gather and vote for anything asked of him) is so dismissive that I'm sure they assume its going to be about divine sandwiches or similar.

Mmmm, sacrilicious.

[Peelee]

I’m pretty sure the rest of the council will be dominated in short order.

I'll take that bet.

[Wizard_Lizard]

This comic makes no sense whatsoever

Why are Dwarven Elders meeting round a WOODEN table?

No sense whatsoever

Thrones made from the skulls of enemies?