General Anime/Manga Discussion 16: In Another Thread With My Smartphone

[Aotrs Commander]

Watched Angel beats episodes 10-13

Spoiler

Show

So, Otonashi decides to start on his quest to get Yui to move on, which leads to Many Hijinks,. because her desire is to To Do Stuff, because she was paralysed as a child.

Finally, after much ado, turns out that wasn't what was motivating her, it was that she'd never get married (or be useful, oh Japan...) Ahahah, let's see how this Otonashi manages that-

-Hinata just proposed to her. Well, crap, THAT came out of the blue a bit, but perhaps not.

Huh.

Epsidoe 11 starts the finale, with random shadows monsters eating people, including the unfortunate Takamatsu, who ends up as an NPC. Yurippe summons everyone in the Battle Front and is like "well, we're screwed. Also, Angel - Kanade is on our side, and Otonashi been trying to get everyone to move on, so listen to him," because fREAKING NOTHING GETS PASSED HER.

She heads off down to find the computer which must be responsible for it.

After the usual round of action-y sequences, she nearly gets eaten herself, but rejects being dragged into the... simulation? Beause she coan't give up herself. (Good on her!) She is partially saved by Kanade, Otonashoi, Naoi and Hinata. They once again do the rear-guard thing, and Yuri finds the computer room and the one that sets all the trap is...Takamatsu?

Huh.

I was sure it was going to be Naoi, eithere consciously or unonsciously. Touché, show.

Except Takamatsu's been doing it because he was reprogrammed? (Who re-progammed him? I must admit, I kind of only half-followed this bit.) Something about the guy that set up the "able to make crap like guns and Kanade's superpowers" did so because a girl never noticed him there and he was... Trying to get people to move on? Or stay? And there was a bug in the system that meant that sometimes someone who wasn't supposed to be there turned up beause amnesia, and then the programmer turned himself into an NPC? Something something, the system activates when love appears to stop it turning into a paradise? I think? (Anyone who can explain it, like, properly, please do... Zodi, lookin' at you, you're so much better at this unlyin' themes and such han I'll ver be!)

Anyhoo, Takamashi offers Yuri the chance to do what the programmer couldn't, become the god of this realm, as she has the power now. She laughs hysterically for a few moments, rejects the offer (I mean, DUH, Yuri is the most Paladinly-Paladin short of the actual shiny armour I can think of, off-hand) and then shoots the crap out of all the computers which apparently makes everything okay. She has a vision in which her siblings say, "look, you saved everyone, you've done enough."

She wakes up with everyone having gone on, except Kanade, Naoi, Otonashi and Hinata; they stayed because Kanade wants to have her graduation ceremony. Yuri noticably loosens up a bit (aw, I liked her super-professionalism) - Kanade too, actually. They do their imprompry ceremony (Kanade did most of the set-up work, natch,) and then Naoi, then Yuri (odd choice, I thought she'd be one of the last) then Hinata pass on.

Otonashi and Kande go outside. Otonashi thinks he would like to stay, to make sure the next lot don't fall into the same trap, and confesses his love to Kanade and asks her to stay with him. A... little bit out of the blue, again, not implasuibly so, but these last episodes do feel like there should have been, like a half a season or a full season behind them first.)

But she can't because if she tells her feelings she'll move on; because the reason she stayed was she could never thank the person who's heart kept her alive, and it was his. Turns out his memories came back while he ws resting his hear on her chest because he was listening to his own heart beat. Kanade figured it out on meeting him for the first time, because he didn't have a heart when she stabbed him.

(Her usual understated serious way of delivery makes this hilarious, one last moment of silly.)

She tells him hto say it again, which relucantly he does, and she reciprocates and vanishes, and Oronashi falls to his knees weeping. (I mean, dude, just... Follow her...?)

So, he's gonna stay there and become the nxt sort of Yuri/Kanade, trapped by his own inability to go "no, I've done enough?" Wierd ending...?


End credits, wherein the usual serious-Yuri-and-people-appear-around-her runs in reverse, with a smiling Yuri and everyone vanishing one by one until only Otonashi is left, and oh, no, there he goes, implying he did move on good.


Pst-credit scene where a white-haired girl (humming the song from Dead Girls Monsters) is passed in the street by a red-haired man, who turns to reach out to her shoulder and fade to white.)


(Not pictured: new-Otonashi getting his arse well-and-truly-kicked by not!demure new-Kanade?)



...

WHY IS THERE AN EPISODE 14?!

Set before that, no. Just no. Maybe another time, but no. After such a VERY definitive and if slightly rushed, certainly heart-felt (to the best of its ability) ending, you can't then go back and say "and now more hijinks!)

Wiki doesn't SAY there's an episode 14!

That must be an OVA or something, mustn't it?



Bad placement, though.

So, overall, pretty good. Not stupendous (and miserable sod that i am, I liked it better when it was being silly), but definitely solid, especially since I failed to predict what was coming.

[ellenate]

Because you've been arguing for over a page in favor of points A, B, and C.

If that ain't your point, what the hell is?

Rynjin pretty much laid it out.

That said, you all are free to take my post as seriously as you want (...doesn't mean i will though).


---
moving on
---


Just finished "war in the pocket".

It's like if gundam and south park had a crossover. Also that ending... why?

[Spacewolf]

Angel Beats was supposed to have a full run where each of the characters would get an episode showing off there back story but that obviously got cut down to what we get. In some ways it's kind of good as it keeps the show to a good tight focus, but it does definitely show.

[Rodin]

Rynjin pretty much laid it out.

That said, you all are free to take my post as seriously as you want (...doesn't mean i will though).

So, his post that directly contradicts yours is your argument.

*looks around*

*scratches head*

Okay, whatever. It's your argument.

[Prime32]

So, J-Novel has an English translation of the Invaders of the Rokujouma?! novels that started as a fan project, became official, and is still available on their site for free. It easily stood out among the dirt-cheap licenses they had at launch, and is still one of the strongest titles in their catalogue (to the point where I've seen discussions of their subscription plan where "early access to novels" and "early access to Rokujouma" are listed as separate perks), but the eBooks never turned much of a profit.

The other day they launched a Kickstarter for a print edition of all 33 books compiled into 10 volumes. It was fully funded within 6 hours, so now they're also releasing the drama CDs based on books 7.5 and 8.5 (the ones about the liegeless knight who "travelled for an endless time and an immeasurable distance"). The original author also seems excited.

...the anime is still never getting a season 2 though.

[tomandtish]

Watched Angel beats episodes 10-13

Spoiler

Show

So, Otonashi decides to start on his quest to get Yui to move on, which leads to Many Hijinks,. because her desire is to To Do Stuff, because she was paralysed as a child.

Finally, after much ado, turns out that wasn't what was motivating her, it was that she'd never get married (or be useful, oh Japan...) Ahahah, let's see how this Otonashi manages that-

-Hinata just proposed to her. Well, crap, THAT came out of the blue a bit, but perhaps not.

Huh.

Epsidoe 11 starts the finale, with random shadows monsters eating people, including the unfortunate Takamatsu, who ends up as an NPC. Yurippe summons everyone in the Battle Front and is like "well, we're screwed. Also, Angel - Kanade is on our side, and Otonashi been trying to get everyone to move on, so listen to him," because fREAKING NOTHING GETS PASSED HER.

She heads off down to find the computer which must be responsible for it.

After the usual round of action-y sequences, she nearly gets eaten herself, but rejects being dragged into the... simulation? Beause she coan't give up herself. (Good on her!) She is partially saved by Kanade, Otonashoi, Naoi and Hinata. They once again do the rear-guard thing, and Yuri finds the computer room and the one that sets all the trap is...Takamatsu?

Huh.

I was sure it was going to be Naoi, eithere consciously or unonsciously. Touché, show.

Except Takamatsu's been doing it because he was reprogrammed? (Who re-progammed him? I must admit, I kind of only half-followed this bit.) Something about the guy that set up the "able to make crap like guns and Kanade's superpowers" did so because a girl never noticed him there and he was... Trying to get people to move on? Or stay? And there was a bug in the system that meant that sometimes someone who wasn't supposed to be there turned up beause amnesia, and then the programmer turned himself into an NPC? Something something, the system activates when love appears to stop it turning into a paradise? I think? (Anyone who can explain it, like, properly, please do... Zodi, lookin' at you, you're so much better at this unlyin' themes and such han I'll ver be!)

Anyhoo, Takamashi offers Yuri the chance to do what the programmer couldn't, become the god of this realm, as she has the power now. She laughs hysterically for a few moments, rejects the offer (I mean, DUH, Yuri is the most Paladinly-Paladin short of the actual shiny armour I can think of, off-hand) and then shoots the crap out of all the computers which apparently makes everything okay. She has a vision in which her siblings say, "look, you saved everyone, you've done enough."

She wakes up with everyone having gone on, except Kanade, Naoi, Otonashi and Hinata; they stayed because Kanade wants to have her graduation ceremony. Yuri noticably loosens up a bit (aw, I liked her super-professionalism) - Kanade too, actually. They do their imprompry ceremony (Kanade did most of the set-up work, natch,) and then Naoi, then Yuri (odd choice, I thought she'd be one of the last) then Hinata pass on.

Otonashi and Kande go outside. Otonashi thinks he would like to stay, to make sure the next lot don't fall into the same trap, and confesses his love to Kanade and asks her to stay with him. A... little bit out of the blue, again, not implasuibly so, but these last episodes do feel like there should have been, like a half a season or a full season behind them first.)

But she can't because if she tells her feelings she'll move on; because the reason she stayed was she could never thank the person who's heart kept her alive, and it was his. Turns out his memories came back while he ws resting his hear on her chest because he was listening to his own heart beat. Kanade figured it out on meeting him for the first time, because he didn't have a heart when she stabbed him.

(Her usual understated serious way of delivery makes this hilarious, one last moment of silly.)

She tells him hto say it again, which relucantly he does, and she reciprocates and vanishes, and Oronashi falls to his knees weeping. (I mean, dude, just... Follow her...?)

So, he's gonna stay there and become the nxt sort of Yuri/Kanade, trapped by his own inability to go "no, I've done enough?" Wierd ending...?


End credits, wherein the usual serious-Yuri-and-people-appear-around-her runs in reverse, with a smiling Yuri and everyone vanishing one by one until only Otonashi is left, and oh, no, there he goes, implying he did move on good.


Pst-credit scene where a white-haired girl (humming the song from Dead Girls Monsters) is passed in the street by a red-haired man, who turns to reach out to her shoulder and fade to white.)


(Not pictured: new-Otonashi getting his arse well-and-truly-kicked by not!demure new-Kanade?)



...

WHY IS THERE AN EPISODE 14?!

Set before that, no. Just no. Maybe another time, but no. After such a VERY definitive and if slightly rushed, certainly heart-felt (to the best of its ability) ending, you can't then go back and say "and now more hijinks!)

Wiki doesn't SAY there's an episode 14!

That must be an OVA or something, mustn't it?



Bad placement, though.

So, overall, pretty good. Not stupendous (and miserable sod that i am, I liked it better when it was being silly), but definitely solid, especially since I failed to predict what was coming.

There are actually two OVAs AND a short One (Stairway to Heaven) was set between episodes 4-5 and released with the 7th BD/DVD set in December 2010. The short was also released then and is another epilogue to the series. The second (Hell's Kitchen) was set between episodes 2-3 and was released in June of 2015 with the Blu-ray set released that month.

[Pendulous]

So, I'm watching "Ascendance of a Bookworm", and I really liked episode 2. I like the idea of this little frail girl having the mind of a modern world adult, trying to Dr. Ston her way into bringing some modern conventions to this world that feels poverty stricken.

Then I remembered something. My headcanon now is the girl's former life was that of a character in another anime. She was a book-lover, and died in a library after an avalanche of books fell on her. The problem is, I can't remember in what show this happened. I think it was a show that wasn't inherently supernatural. That it felt out of place for the rest of the show. I could be wrong on that part. Also, the ghost itself wasn't hostile really, or it might have been at first. If anyone can think of what it is, please respond. It was a one-off character, not a part of the main cast.

[John Cribati]

Then I remembered something. My headcanon now is the girl's former life was that of a character in another anime. She was a book-lover, and died in a library after an avalanche of books fell on her. The problem is, I can't remember in what show this happened.

Did she also happen to have a photofraphic memory? Because if she did, you're probably thinking of Sheska* from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. She survived, though, obviously.

_______________
_{*or however you're supposed to spell it like a Slavic name}

[Pendulous]

Did she also happen to have a photofraphic memory? Because if she did, you're probably thinking of Sheska* from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. She survived, though, obviously.

_______________
_{*or however you're supposed to spell it like a Slavic name}

No, this girl definitely haunts the library she died in, and I believe disappears after whatever resolution happens. Also, I'm fairly certain it's not Tsugumomo or Myriad Colors Phantom World, two shows where it would make sense that it would happen in.

[LaZodiac]

Okay I have a question. People who like Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba please explain to me why. I don't... I don't see anything people say there is to like in it, and I want to know what I'm missing.

[ellenate]

Okay I have a question. People who like Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba please explain to me why. I don't... I don't see anything people say there is to like in it, and I want to know what I'm missing.

Saw a post praising its animation on twitter and it was basically a still (with what looked like swirling globs of lava). I don't know what to believe about that show.

[-D-]

Okay I have a question. People who like Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba please explain to me why. I don't... I don't see anything people say there is to like in it, and I want to know what I'm missing.

Let's see:

• Great animation and special effects (i.e. eye candy)
• Generally decent characters and worthwhile protagonists (background of most antagonists is generally tearjerker)
• Winning using power of friendship, without going into straight cheese
• JoJo Mice - sorry, spoilers
• Tiny Nezuko

Spoiler

Show

[LaZodiac]

Let's see:

• Great animation and special effects (i.e. eye candy)
• Generally decent characters and worthwhile protagonists (background of most antagonists is generally tearjerker)
• Winning using power of friendship, without going into straight cheese
• JoJo Mice - sorry, spoilers
• Tiny Nezuko

I got that first one. Though I'm curious; what are the special effects even? In the manga they're clearly not like, real. They're symbolic. They don't have actual powers (except boarboy who stole Toph's tremorsense which pisses me off a lot)

I have... so much difficulty with this second one. The main character has done basically nothing to make me care about him beyond basic "awe family dead" sympathy. He's always successful and mastered every move immediately so he's just kinda... not that impressive to me, since there's no effort there. The antagonists also seem just... kinda there so far. I like the obvious big bad jerk, but he's still kinda eh. No one else is a character so far.

I... no? Not even remotely? There's no friendship power in sight it's just chopping heads off. I don't get this at all.

What?

I have difficulties liking Nezuko since she's... utterly nothing. She's basically a macguffin. She's had one line and it was a super move to make the main character do his slash better. She's cute but she's basically a doll and that's so weird to me, that there's a clear and obvious female main character they could use and she's mute and mind controlled into docility 90% of the time.

[-D-]

I got that first one. Though I'm curious; what are the special effects even? In the manga they're clearly not like, real. They're symbolic
.

They are symbolic representations of the breathing techniques. Also, in manga they totally do. I mean. Calming all attacks with your water blade technique, is basically equating symbolism and actual effect.

except boarboy who stole Toph's tremorsense which pisses me off a lot

Stole it? I think each of trio has super heightened sense. Tanjiro has smell, Zenitsu has hearing, I guess Boarboy's was touch. And besides, Toph stole it from Elephants and snakes, so it's not like it really matters.

I have... so much difficulty with this second one. The main character has done basically nothing to make me care about him beyond basic "awe family dead" sympathy. He's always successful and mastered every move immediately so he's just kinda... not that impressive to me, since there's no effort there. The antagonists also seem just... kinda there so far. I like the obvious big bad jerk, but he's still kinda eh. No one else is a character so far.

Ok, sure, he got the usual Shonen Master of all syndrome. But what makes him different from the rest of his corp, is the fact that he actually on some levels has sympathy for the demons (not saying all of them are sympathetic, but some are).

I... no? Not even remotely? There's no friendship power in sight it's just chopping heads off. I don't get this at all.

Did you read the manga? I can elaborate, but basically.

Spoiler: Manga Spoiler

Show

Their latest fight against the Upper Number One where each member of the team contributes to bringing the Demon down.
The fight with Upper Demon that eats women (Think it was Upper Four or Three), etc.

What?

Spoiler: Red Light District arc

Show

I have difficulties liking Nezuko since she's... utterly nothing. She's basically a macguffin. She's had one line and it was a super move to make the main character do his slash better. She's cute but she's basically a doll and that's so weird to me, that there's a clear and obvious female main character they could use and she's mute and mind controlled into docility 90% of the time.

Are you forgetting her protecting her brother against other numerous demons? Again how much did you read? I'm not saying she isn't a macguffin, but she can from time to time kick a lot of ass.

Besides if you watched too many anime, it's nice to see a sister that doesn't try to bone her brother.

[LaZodiac]

They are symbolic representations of the breathing techniques. Also, in manga they totally do. I mean. Calming all attacks with your water blade technique, is basically equating symbolism and actual effect.

Stole it? I think each of trio has super heightened sense. Tanjiro has smell, Zenitsu has hearing, I guess Boarboy's was touch. And besides, Toph stole it from Elephants and snakes, so it's not like it really matters.

Ok, sure, he got the usual Shonen Master of all syndrome. But what makes him different from the rest of his corp, is the fact that he actually on some levels has sympathy for the demons (not saying all of them are sympathetic, but some are).

Did you read the manga? I can elaborate, but basically.

Spoiler: Manga Spoiler

Show

Their latest fight against the Upper Number One where each member of the team contributes to bringing the Demon down.
The fight with Upper Demon that eats women (Think it was Upper Four or Three), etc.

Spoiler: Red Light District arc

Show

Are you forgetting her protecting her brother against other numerous demons? Again how much did you read? I'm not saying she isn't a macguffin, but she can from time to time kick a lot of ass.

I think you're misunderstanding. My impression was that it was all just artistic effect and that the demon slayer's don't have magic powers. But the way the anime presents it, they do.

I know that, and that's utterly stupid. Boarboy is good at touch because he lived in a mountain so he can just Do That, and that's stupid as hell. Elephant's don't have tremorsense I think, and snake's are deaf so of course they can do that. Toph's is using her earth bending to sense the movements of everyone around her and it's a really cool, clever, in universe use of a power anyone COULD do if they practiced, that she's good at naturally due to being blind. Meanwhile Boarboy just lived in the mountains for awhile so now he can sense vibrations on his skin for some reason. It's actually something I can look at in this series and go "this is stupid".

Only bad shonen have that. That doesn't justify or answer my concern regarding that and is arguably just a sign of it being a negative thing. And... I mean I guess? That doesn't change the fact that he kills them all without seemingly any real difficulty. The only sympathy I've even really seen is killing the one spider lady with a painless attack. Which... doesn't have any weight to me.

I have read the manga up to the end of the spider demon arc, which is by my understanding where the anime is currently at. I don't know who any of those people you're saying are. Also that's not friendship power that's teamwork.

W... what? That doesn't explain anything? I guess there are buff mice?

To the end of the spider demon arc. And... I mean oh boy a berserker with no personality that helps our hero. That's So Cool. It'd be cooler if she was an actual character who existed.

Regarding your edit: For ****s sake people watch good anime it's not that hard. Not every series ever does that. I'd say it's probably the minority that does **** like that.

[Rynjin]

Bruh, have you considered just...letting it go? You've asked this question three times now.

[LaZodiac]

Pretty sure the other times were for Hunter x Hunter.

Also yes, I have. It turns out I can't and I don't owe you anything, so I won't stop asking every few months or so when I'm bored or feeling bad.

That said -D- gave me some good answers, even if I don't think they're enough for me to understand. That's more than the HxH crowd can say. So this'll probably sate my curiosity at least for a good number of months.

[-D-]

I think you're misunderstanding. My impression was that it was all just artistic effect and that the demon slayer's don't have magic powers. But the way the anime presents it, they do.

As much as any shonen. The thing is, for Japanese the weapon is much more an embodiment of their spirit, than the weapon itself. I.e. weapon and user are one and not discreet.

Meanwhile Boarboy just lived in the mountains for awhile so now he can sense vibrations on his skin for some reason. It's actually something I can look at in this series and go "this is stupid".

I'm afraid this is just you. I watched Avatar, and Toph never once occurred to me, when looking at Boarboy.

Additionally the wiki explains his powers as sensing the air flow on his skin as opposed to tremors. So it's much closer to Elephants ability to sense lower frequencies, than Toph tremor sense. So if anything he's ripping off Aang.

Only bad shonen have that. That doesn't justify or answer my concern regarding that and is arguably just a sign of it being a negative thing. And... I mean I guess? That doesn't change the fact that he kills them all without seemingly any real difficulty. The only sympathy I've even really seen is killing the one spider lady with a painless attack. Which... doesn't have any weight to me.

Well most Shonen follow the recipe of guy masters A, sees technique B, masters B, etc.

Sure he kills all of them, because they are monsters and needed to be stopped. But him having a demon sister means he also empathize with them.

It could just be me, but last few demons he fought... Man I haven't cried this much since FMA.

I have read the manga up to the end of the spider demon arc, which is by my understanding where the anime is currently at. I don't know who any of those people you're saying are. Also that's not friendship power that's teamwork.

To the end of the spider demon arc. And... I mean oh boy a berserker with no personality that helps our hero. That's So Cool. It'd be cooler if she was an actual character who existed.

I think it's more than just teamwork. Tanjiro influences other people around him, and the people around him influence him back and make him grow. Funnily enough Boarboy is most inflenced by Tanjiro.

Nezuko saved Tanjiro's ass numerous times. If you think his fight against spider boy was easy, the only reason Tanjiro isn't quadriplegic was his sister jumping in. He at one point during the fight says, I'm going to try this, even if it kills me. And the funny thing is, even that wasn't enough. Without Nezuko, then and there Tanjiro would be a pile of sliced organs.

And you will notice she only goes berserk if her brother is threatened.

Also Nezuko isn't as brainwashed as you think. His master told her to treat other humans as family. She still all on her own helped the good demon lady.

W... what? That doesn't explain anything? I guess there are buff mice?

Aww, seems like someone doesn't have enough Pillar Men theme in their head.

https://youtu.be/XUhVCoTsBaM

Regarding your edit: For ****s sake people watch good anime it's not that hard. Not every series ever does that. I'd say it's probably the minority that does **** like that.

Hehe. What makes you think I watch, bad anime? Just being tangentially aware of its existence is enough.

Spoiler: not safe for sanity

Show

Like Arifureta with its dragon anal porn. Or the existence of Incest MILFsekai.

Not to mention Imouto and Isekai are a genre of Anime. Like Harem. And slice of life.

[LaZodiac]

As much as any shonen. The thing is, for Japanese the weapon is much more an embodiment of their spirit, than the weapon itself. I.e. weapon and user are one and not discreet.

Additionally the wiki explains his powers as sensing the air flow on his skin as opposed to tremors. So it's much closer to Elephants ability to sense lower frequencies, than Toph tremor sense. So if anything he's ripping off Aang.

Well most Shonen follow the recipe of guy masters A, sees technique B, masters B, etc.

Sure he kills all of them, because they are monsters and needed to be stopped. But him having a demon sister means he also empathize with them.

It could just be me, but last few demons he fought... Man I haven't cried this much since FMA.

Also Nezuko isn't as brainwashed as you think. His master told her to treat other humans as family. She still all on her own helped the good demon lady.

Aww, seems like someone doesn't have enough Pillar Men theme in their head.

https://youtu.be/XUhVCoTsBaM
[/Spoiler]

Not to mention Imouto and Isekai are a genre of Anime. Like Harem. And slice of life.

I... really don't think you understood what I meant by this. My understanding is that in Demon Slayer they're just swinging a sword around, it's not actually super powered or anything. There's no ki or whatever, it's just artistic flare and not real.

That's not a thing a person can just learn to do.

Literally none of the shonen I watch or read do this but okay.

Fair. I haven't felt much empathy (or anything really) from Tanjiro beyond the spider lady he killed with the gentle rain.

I have absolutely no way of describing how impossible that sounds.

She's still barely a character.

The pillar men theme goes through my head all the time I mean I don't have a ****ing idea what you mean by "jojo mice". Do you just mean that arc has buff mice in it?

[Lord Raziere]

On Nezuko:
If "character" and "personality" is only defined by the words someone speaks.....

then R2-D2 would have no personality at all. This is demonstrably untrue.

I'm pretty sure "has no personality" is just a buzz phrase for any introvert or stoic person people don't like at this point.

[Rodin]

Pretty sure the other times were for Hunter x Hunter.

Also yes, I have. It turns out I can't and I don't owe you anything, so I won't stop asking every few months or so when I'm bored or feeling bad.

That said -D- gave me some good answers, even if I don't think they're enough for me to understand. That's more than the HxH crowd can say. So this'll probably sate my curiosity at least for a good number of months.

Maybe it'll last longer than the two weeks the last couple times you asked?

I'm just gonna go ahead and gather all my previous posts on the subject into this one post, so I can just re-quote myself the next time you go on a rant about the show in a week or so. I don't feel like writing out why I like the show every time. I've done it twice (more often if you count multiple reiterations in a single discussion), and if you haven't gotten it yet, well: Here it is for you to re-read.

You Don't Like The Show. We Get It. If You Don't Like It, You Do Not Have To Watch It.

Also, you not liking it does not make it inherently bad. It just means you don't like it. That's fine. There's plenty of shows I see talked about in this thread that I personally wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole, because I know I wouldn't like them. And that's okay.

Count me as another that enjoyed watching Goblin Slayer. It wasn't deep, and I wasn't there for the shock value. I just happen to love a good dungeon crawl, and that's what pretty much the entirety of Goblin Slayer was. They even had a beholder, and made jokes about how they couldn't say it's name without bringing down the wrath of WotC. It just happened to be wrapped in an "edgy" fanservice wrapper.

I've also been enjoying Demon Slayer. Again, it's not deep, but I likes me some anime fighting. It's no shallower than Naruto or Bleach were (although probably not as deep as My Hero Academia or Hunter X Hunter), and the fights are gorgeously animated against villains with inventive powers. And yes, episode 19 was awesome.

Sometimes you just want to watch a dude decapitate demons with a water sword.

Also, Nezuko in episode 19:

Spoiler

Show

She saves Tanjiro first by body blocking the razor wire causing major damage to herself. Then when he's about to sacrifice himself in return by performing a mutual kill on the spider demon, she reveals her special demon blood power, destroys the silk wires, and adds power to Tanjiro's sword so that he's able to cut through the bad guy's neck.

It's one of the things I like about the show - for the most part Tanjiro doesn't win the fights on his own. He would have been wrecked by the temari demon if Yushiro hadn't given him the spell that lets him see the arrows, and he doesn't wind up being the one to beat her - that's Tamayo. Tanjiro was on the ground with broken bones at the time. He might have beaten the swamp demon dude on his own, but he would have lost the people he was protecting if Nezuko hadn't fought to protect them while he was underwater. Even with the spider demons he was screwed because his sense of smell was overwhelmed - it took Inosuke using his beast senses to sniff out where the enemy was.

And if you're just going off the manga I don't see how I can really explain why I watch the show. It's GORGEOUS, beautifully animated, and has haunting music with a "who's who" of shonen voice actors. I don't go back and re-watch Naruto or Bleach for the plot. Goodness me no. I go back and watch the fights, and the moments where the characters I loved did awesome things. Demon Slayer absolutely fits the bill here.

I find it hard to look at Demon Slayer at less than 20 episodes and judge its depth against Naruto (700+ episodes) or Bleach (350+) or One Piece (nearly 900 and still going). At this point in Naruto he was still fighting freaking ZABUZA. Ichigo was recovering from his first meeting with Byakuya and we had yet to begin the arc that really gave Bleach legs as a show. I've never watched One Piece because I've never been able to get into it, so no comment there. Even Hunter X Hunter was still in Hunter Exam at this point, and that's the faster paced 2011 version.

I will say that I'm bugged by the gag on Nezuko. I like how they've worked around it to give her character, but still...REALLY? I can't help but feel the show would be better if she had an actual speaking role. Heck, even her just being mute from the trauma would be an improvement.

And? You asked why I enjoy the anime given that you read the manga and thought it sucked. I responded that I'm judging the anime based on criteria that do not apply to the manga in any way.



We'll have to agree to disagree here. It's good, but I don't find it to have a whole lot of depth and they lost me when Sasuke survived. There's much better, even within Naruto itself.



Bleach got good in the Soul Society arc, and this is just prior to that. Before that it was mostly just monster of the week stuff. Pretty good monster of the week stuff, but then what do you think Demon Slayer has been up to this point?

Hunter X Hunter is my favorite anime of all time, so that goes a long way to showing how different our tastes are.

But to return to the overall point I'm trying to make:

Bleach has a lot of ups and downs, and there's a lot of arguments about where the show peaked and where it became crap and yadda yadda yadda. There is pretty universal agreement that by the time the Hueco Mundo arc was well underway the show was on a downward slope. And yet, many of my favorite bits to re-watch are from that era of the show. The plot was crap, the pacing was crap, there was zero depth, but the FIGHTS were excellent. They were well animated, well choreographed, with fantastic music and fun characters. And that's all I need in a show sometimes.

Demon Slayer HAS that. It's been big fight -> brief respite -> big fight. And it's awesome for it. Sure, I hope that it grows some depth. But it isn't needed. And if you're looking for something more, then I wouldn't recommend it.

There's a dude, he's gonna fight demons, and it looks gorgeous. Let's go.

Yeah, basically. It's in the "light watching" category I have for stuff that I don't need to think about too hard and isn't likely to be wrenching me about emotionally. At the moment I've got Dr. Stone, Boruto, and A Certain Scientific Accelerator going in that category, and Demon Slayer is the best of those. Dr. Stone is a relaxing watch, but the quality varies wildly from episode to episode. Boruto is basically "Naruto filler: The Show". And Accelerator is an absolutely trashy show which I only watch because Accelerator himself is awesome.

Most importantly, Demon Slayer passes the most important Shonen test: a likeable main character. Of all the Shonen shows I've ever seen, there's only three others I can think of that qualify for that - Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter X Hunter, and My Hero Academia. And as noted the last time this was discussed, FMA is kind of in its own category here.

[-D-]

I... really don't think you understood what I meant by this. My understanding is that in Demon Slayer they're just swinging a sword around, it's not actually super powered or anything. There's no ki or whatever, it's just artistic flare and not real.

The sword is literally powered by their spirit. It even changes color depending on the wielder.

That's not a thing a person can just learn to do.

Well, once you learn breathing technique, it heightens your abilities. If you have ok hearing - now you can hear tomatoes growing. You are strong? Congrats, now you drain water from a rock as if it was a sponge.

Literally none of the shonen I watch or read do this but okay.

Off the top of my head I remember this being a thing in Soul Eater, DBZ, FireForce, Bleach...

Fair. I haven't felt much empathy (or anything really) from Tanjiro beyond the spider lady he killed with the gentle rain.

When fighting the Room shifting demon, he avoids demon's manuscripts on purpose.

After finishing off spider boy, he holds spider boy's hand, making latter remark it was warm as sunlight.

I have absolutely no way of describing how impossible that sounds.

She's still barely a character.

What sounds impossible?

As for Nezuko. Yeah, she's less a character and more of form of mutual morality pet + motivation + helping hand. It's not great, but she is exception rather than the rule.

I don't really understand what you expected here? Have her be free and go out to kill/eat people? If she just became instant vegetarian demon, it raises questions. Why didn't other demon do that?

The pillar men theme goes through my head all the time I mean I don't have a ****ing idea what you mean by "jojo mice". Do you just mean that arc has buff mice in it?

I think they are reference to Jojo. Maybe? Anyway they are muscle bound and will probably end on an vine/meme site, paired with Pillar men theme

[-D-]

Speaking of Fireforce anyone reading the manga?

On Nezuko:
If "character" and "personality" is only defined by the words someone speaks.....

I think LaZodiac has a point. Let's do Plinket character sketch.

Describe to me Nezuko, as if I never heard of Demon Slayer, without telling me what she looks like or what her role in anime is or.

She is essentially a demon child, with a pure protective heart.

[LaZodiac]

On Nezuko:
If "character" and "personality" is only defined by the words someone speaks.....

then R2-D2 would have no personality at all. This is demonstrably untrue.

I'm pretty sure "has no personality" is just a buzz phrase for any introvert or stoic person people don't like at this point.

R2 D2 has a ton of personality. Nezuko is literally asleep for half the series. There's basically nothing there.

Maybe it'll last longer than the two weeks the last couple times you asked?

I'm just gonna go ahead and gather all my previous posts on the subject into this one post, so I can just re-quote myself the next time you go on a rant about the show in a week or so. I don't feel like writing out why I like the show every time. I've done it twice (more often if you count multiple reiterations in a single discussion), and if you haven't gotten it yet, well: Here it is for you to re-read.

You Don't Like The Show. We Get It. If You Don't Like It, You Do Not Have To Watch It.

Also, you not liking it does not make it inherently bad. It just means you don't like it. That's fine. There's plenty of shows I see talked about in this thread that I personally wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole, because I know I wouldn't like them. And that's okay.

No need to be rude dude, I was just bored and wanted to discuss something and this is a good way of doing so. And I don't think it's inherently bad, otherwise I wouldn't be asking people what they like about it. I'm asking for people to sell me on the series they like, that's all.

I'm not ranting. You haven't even begun to see what a rant from me would look like.

Your answers are pretty good! I'm still curious what exactly is likeable about Tanjiro given he just... didn't come across as having much personality to me. Thank you for answering. I don't remember ever talking to you before about this though so sorry if I'm bothering you

The sword is literally powered by their spirit. It even changes color depending on the wielder.

Off the top of my head I remember this being a thing in Soul Eater, DBZ, FireForce, Bleach...

What sounds impossible?

As for Nezuko. Yeah, she's less a character and more of form of mutual morality pet + motivation + helping hand. It's not great, but she is exception rather than the rule.

I don't really understand what you expected here? Have her be free and go out to kill/eat people? If she just became instant vegetarian demon, it raises questions. Why didn't other demon do that?


I think they are reference to Jojo. Maybe? Anyway they are muscle bound and will probably end on an vine/meme site, paired with Pillar men theme

Okay.

Of those only Bleach fits the actual "train with a master and instantly get it" thing. Soul Eater and Fire Force aren't like that at all, and Dragonball Z for the most part puts a lot of work into showing how much effort did go into learning that stuff. That's not to say they have no problems of course (narrows eyes at Fire Force) but they don't really match the sort of series you're talking about. But I suppose I'm splitting hairs. My issue with Tanjiro is that he masters this like what, 12 super moves that are narrow enough to allow him to have an answer to every situation, with no real effort and we just get to have a hero who can answer every question immediately, and that's kinda lame.

That anything in Demon Slayer could make you cry as much as FMA: Brotherhood did.

Nezuko could be someone who has any sort of agency at all, for one. I don't know just, gagging your only female protagonist and then having her sleep half the time is not a good look. I'd have preferred it if she could pass for human and did her best to actually fight against her demon side, controling and mastering it while Tanjiro learns to master his sword skill.

So there's just buff mice then. Okay. Random Jojo references are weird, but I like it.

[Reddish Mage]

I thought I heard of this as being a fan theory to explain Beatrice in Re:Zero (or perhaps Subaru suggested it in the anime).

[gomipile]

I thought I heard of this as being a fan theory to explain Beatrice in Re:Zero (or perhaps Subaru suggested it in the anime).

Is the "this" to which you refer in this thread? Perhaps you could quote the specific part of a post to which you are referring? Are you responding to the post just before yours? I can't be sure.

[-D-]

Of those only Bleach fits the actual "train with a master and instantly get it" thing. Soul Eater and Fire Force aren't like that at all

Ok. I won't spoil too much. But at one point. FireForce had a "opponent is doing X" then protagonist will do "X plus Ultra" in next chapter. It wasn't free, but there are a lot of shonen, where if antagonist does Infinite damage, we'll do Infinite + 100 damage. Yes. It's from Yu-Gi-Oh.

My issue with Tanjiro is that he masters this like what, 12 super moves that are narrow enough to allow him to have an answer to every situation

He masters 12 katas. Those are like fighting forms. Katas aren't rigid. It's not like Magic Missile or Kamehameha. Each one is more like a thread in a tapestry, i.e. not always used in same way.

Also if you think those 12 movements will be enough. Heh. We'll see. Sadly, all signs point to Nope.

As for Nezuko. Interesting ideas, but it would necessitate a different setting or wildly different plot.

That said, Nezuko might have a much bigger role. Or she could be more MacGuffiny

[Rodin]

No need to be rude dude, I was just bored and wanted to discuss something and this is a good way of doing so. And I don't think it's inherently bad, otherwise I wouldn't be asking people what they like about it. I'm asking for people to sell me on the series they like, that's all.

I'm not ranting. You haven't even begun to see what a rant from me would look like.

Your answers are pretty good! I'm still curious what exactly is likeable about Tanjiro given he just... didn't come across as having much personality to me. Thank you for answering. I don't remember ever talking to you before about this though so sorry if I'm bothering you

I should apologize somewhat. I read your bit about "watch good anime people it's not that hard" and took that as being directed at me since you were dissing Demon Slayer and HxH earlier in the post. I see now that I misread the context and you were talking about siscon, which is...yuck. So, sorry on that one.

I remain irked that we had an entire page's worth of discussion that you forgot about, because every one of those posts was in direct response to you (and you replied to some of them).

At any rate, I posted more angrily than I should have. I'm sorry.

My message still stands though: Maybe Demon Slayer just isn't the anime for you. I just had quite a shock when I watched a review of Joker from my favorite Youtube critic. He's never given me bad advice before, but he panned the movie HARD and I probably wouldn't have gone to see it based on his review. Fortunately the timing was off and I went to see it the day before he did his review, and I wound up adoring it. I disagreed with every negative thing he said categorically, which is very unusual for me. Even people with similar tastes can have wildly different views on any given piece of media.

[Rodin]

I've been thinking about this particular debate a fair bit.

Of those only Bleach fits the actual "train with a master and instantly get it" thing. Soul Eater and Fire Force aren't like that at all, and Dragonball Z for the most part puts a lot of work into showing how much effort did go into learning that stuff. That's not to say they have no problems of course (narrows eyes at Fire Force) but they don't really match the sort of series you're talking about. But I suppose I'm splitting hairs. My issue with Tanjiro is that he masters this like what, 12 super moves that are narrow enough to allow him to have an answer to every situation, with no real effort and we just get to have a hero who can answer every question immediately, and that's kinda lame.

Firstly, the show in question. Tanjiro's twelve forms aren't something that he just "instantly learns". He spent a year learning the theory of the techniques from Urokodaki, spent another year practicing said techniques, and only THEN did he master the Water Breathing technique that allowed him to draw out their power. And as noted, there are more than 12 techniques. Those are just the ones he knows.

He gets a plot-based surge in power with the Flame (or is it Fire?) Breathing technique, which is actually a bit of a mystery and even he's not sure how he did it. That's instant mastery, and I was a bit irritated that he got the standard Shonen Power Surge when facing an unwinnable battle. I do forgive it a bit since it turned out to NOT win him the battle and left him helpless on the ground. Also an example of the 12 forms not being sufficient to win a fight. He also would have lost had he been fighting the Arrow demon and Temari demon alone, as he breaks a leg while the Temari demon is still untouched.

His next power-up (Constant Water Breathing) is learned over a period of weeks/months and requires intensive training. There's a couple of episodes at the end of the Spider Demon arc dedicated to showing him learning it, and he works his ass off for it.

As to other shows...

Didn't Goku learn the Kamehameha Wave by watching Roshi do it a single time? And then learn Solar Flare the same way? And Vegeta learns how to sense energy just by learning it was possible, Goku learns how to read minds with no practice and no explanation, the kids learn to become Super Saiyan with no training...and that's not even counting stuff like Super Saiyan, Namekian Fusion, the two other types of Fusion, Zenkai Boost...

Naruto learns his signature move Shadow Clone in the space of a few hours. Sasuke learns how to use Rock Lee's exact fighting style against Gaara despite being unconscious in hospital during that fight. Kakashi says he did by "imagining how Rock Lee would move". In the final battle, both Naruto and Sasuke are outright gifted with a raft of new abilities because the plot demands it.

Ichigo learns how to fight at a higher level than Ikkaku with only a single week's training. He then learns Bankai in a single day. He learns how to shoot Getsuga Tenshou while in Bankai form because Hollow Ichigo did it a couple times. Mastering Bankai is supposed to take centuries.

[LaZodiac]

I should apologize somewhat. I read your bit about "watch good anime people it's not that hard" and took that as being directed at me since you were dissing Demon Slayer and HxH earlier in the post. I see now that I misread the context and you were talking about siscon, which is...yuck. So, sorry on that one.

I remain irked that we had an entire page's worth of discussion that you forgot about, because every one of those posts was in direct response to you (and you replied to some of them).

At any rate, I posted more angrily than I should have. I'm sorry.

My message still stands though: Maybe Demon Slayer just isn't the anime for you. I just had quite a shock when I watched a review of Joker from my favorite Youtube critic. He's never given me bad advice before, but he panned the movie HARD and I probably wouldn't have gone to see it based on his review. Fortunately the timing was off and I went to see it the day before he did his review, and I wound up adoring it. I disagreed with every negative thing he said categorically, which is very unusual for me. Even people with similar tastes can have wildly different views on any given piece of media.

Apology accepted. And I know it's not for me, but I want to know why it is for other people and compare that to my own tastes and see why I don't like it.

And yeah life's been busy, I have difficulty remembering some stuff >_>

Firstly, the show in question. Tanjiro's twelve forms aren't something that he just "instantly learns". He spent a year learning the theory of the techniques from Urokodaki, spent another year practicing said techniques, and only THEN did he master the Water Breathing technique that allowed him to draw out their power. And as noted, there are more than 12 techniques. Those are just the ones he knows.

He gets a plot-based surge in power with the Flame (or is it Fire?) Breathing technique, which is actually a bit of a mystery and even he's not sure how he did it. That's instant mastery, and I was a bit irritated that he got the standard Shonen Power Surge when facing an unwinnable battle. I do forgive it a bit since it turned out to NOT win him the battle and left him helpless on the ground. Also an example of the 12 forms not being sufficient to win a fight. He also would have lost had he been fighting the Arrow demon and Temari demon alone, as he breaks a leg while the Temari demon is still untouched.

His next power-up (Constant Water Breathing) is learned over a period of weeks/months and requires intensive training. There's a couple of episodes at the end of the Spider Demon arc dedicated to showing him learning it, and he works his ass off for it.

As to other shows...

Didn't Goku learn the Kamehameha Wave by watching Roshi do it a single time? And then learn Solar Flare the same way? And Vegeta learns how to sense energy just by learning it was possible, Goku learns how to read minds with no practice and no explanation, the kids learn to become Super Saiyan with no training...and that's not even counting stuff like Super Saiyan, Namekian Fusion, the two other types of Fusion, Zenkai Boost...

Naruto learns his signature move Shadow Clone in the space of a few hours. Sasuke learns how to use Rock Lee's exact fighting style against Gaara despite being unconscious in hospital during that fight. Kakashi says he did by "imagining how Rock Lee would move". In the final battle, both Naruto and Sasuke are outright gifted with a raft of new abilities because the plot demands it.

Ichigo learns how to fight at a higher level than Ikkaku with only a single week's training. He then learns Bankai in a single day. He learns how to shoot Getsuga Tenshou while in Bankai form because Hollow Ichigo did it a couple times. Mastering Bankai is supposed to take centuries.

The issue for me is that Tanjiro's training isn't really presented as all that hard, and once he's mastered all 12 techniques he's basically got everything he'll ever need. There feels like very little room for growth here. Knowing there's more than 12 makes it better, but it raises the question of "why give him 12 from the start?" it's just a lot to me.

The fire dance, from what I've seen of it, seems like it's going to tie into whatever his mysterious backstory is, since that scar on his head barely looks like a scar anymore so it clearly Means Something, presumably. I also was under the impression that it did help him win, just that his sister's blood explosion was what gave him the final shove he needs to decapitate the spider demon.

Well I stopped after the spiders so I didn't see that. So I mean, fair, but I do seriously feel we should get something like that before you're almost at triple digits chapter wise.

Goku learned the Kamehameha back in Dragon Ball, where it was primarily a gag series based on Journey to the West. Son Wukong, the character Goku is based on, is also the prototypical shonen hero who's the best at everything (except humility, which is what his character arc is about) so it's hard to fault that. Solar Flare also seems like... an easy move to do if you know how to use ki? And I mean saiyen's are busted stupid with how powerful they are and how easy it is for them to get stronger, I wouldn't necessarily defend Dragonball for this either, it only really passes thanks to having an in universe reason for it and Legacy Points.

The Forbidden Shadow Clone Technique is explicitly said to be super simple, with the caveat being that the way it splits your chakra makes it super hard to do. Regular Shadow Clone was super hard for Naruto since he was very unskilled with Chakra molding, whereas the Forbidden Shadow Clone is just splitting his entire store in half (something relatively easy, but dangerous). His ability to due this is due to the Nine Tailed Fox, and so has the drawback of there being a horrifying demon inside of him. Sasuke's Sharingan did record Rock Lee during the latter's kicking of his ass, so he just repeated that over and over in his mind till he got it (which is valid, and they point out the end to Sasuke's version of the Primary Lotus that it's clearly incomplete since he only saw the start of it). Also don't even get me started on how ****ty latter Naruto is, I agree with you on that one!

Bleach is bad and everything you just described is bad.

But yeah you're right, those series do definitely go into this sort of thing, for one reason or another. But all of them, at least sans Bleach and end-game Naruto, have their reasoning for it. We don't really get an impression of how Tanjiro learns these sword skills, and that's disappointing because I'd love to hear the inner workings of how he figured it out. I like seeing the build up. Think about how unsatisfying My Hero would be if Deku just was like "ah my hands hurt, time to use my feet" instead of what actually happened.

Also as a slightly related sidebar: I am actuatlly curious if anyone is going to take up -D-'s challenge of "explain Tanjiro's sister" via the Plinkett Method, or whatever it's called.