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2019-08-07, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: Does sentience remove us from natural selection/evolution?
Voluntary in the sense that the organism decides to have fewer offspring rather than external pressures preventing the organism from succeeding at its attempts to have many offspring. I don't know if I'd say whether its a voluntary act of the genes, a voluntary act of the brain, or a voluntary act of the culture - it's probably ambiguous, but a bit of all of them.
Maybe a more precise thing to say would be that in simple cases, fitness within one generation (defined as the expected number of surviving offspring of that individual) is predictive of which individual's genetic variations will dominate the population at long times. In ecological situations where interactions between individuals and species are strong, single-generation individual fitnesses can become non-predictive of the future dominance of the population. Similarly, in situations where drift is more important than selection (high mutation rate, high gradients in drift with genetic variation, presence of horizontal transfer mechanisms such as homologous recombination, sexual reproduction, etc) then individual single-generation fitness may not be predictive of future dominance.
There's also ambiguity where the 'individual' that should properly be counted is itself participating in multiple parallel replicators - for example, if we were to speak of the fitness of a phenotype rather than a species, or the fitness of a human as opposed to the fitness of a human liver cell - there you get things like group selection, kin selection, and the like; they're selective effects, but rather than directly applying to the survival of what you'd normally think of as the individual, they apply to the survival of some association that the individual is a member of, and the association may exert some control on the replication dynamics of the individuals which comprise it that is uncorrelated with environmental selective pressures. E.g. your body can tell individual cells to commit suicide, and only a few cells have a chance of reproduction in the very long term, but due to that, the collective behavior of your cells can bring about the propagation of something that is genetically much more highly correlated to them than another random individual.
So something like the demographic transition is an indication that by adopting a lower single-generation fitness than is possible for that organism, the probability of long-time dominance (now perhaps not of specific genetic variations but of a given phenotype) can be increased. But, given all these other examples, the idea of escaping a simplistic 'survival of the fittest' type mode of evolution is by no means unique in the whole of biology.
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2019-08-07, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Does sentience remove us from natural selection/evolution?
Natural selection continues but due to civilization is is overwhelmingly eclipsed and trivialized by the evolution of technology and culture. All adaptations are gradually being offloaded into this new medium.
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2019-08-07, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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Re: Does sentience remove us from natural selection/evolution?
In evolutionary terms, "survival of the fittest" roughly means "who got the most grandkids into the future". It doesn't mean "bigger, stronger, faster, better", and doesn't reward genes directly -- it favors genes that lead to whatever traits that lead to the aforementioned success. It doesn't favor particular traits if there's no differentiation of reproductive success, so if there's no reproductive advantage, there's no evolution to be had.
Sadly, "evolution" has entrenched itself in common parlance as a word that means "progressive change, usually improvement, over time"... and that really clouds the issue when it comes to actual evolution.Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2019-08-07 at 12:43 PM.
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2019-08-07, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Does sentience remove us from natural selection/evolution?
The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.
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2019-08-07, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Does sentience remove us from natural selection/evolution?
Last edited by Bohandas; 2019-08-07 at 03:31 PM.
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2019-08-07, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Does sentience remove us from natural selection/evolution?
My favorite part about "survival of the fittest" is how often it is "survival of the luckiest." Gradualist processes are often trumped by extinction level effects that happened to leave only bald individuals so now the species is bald.
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2019-08-07, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Does sentience remove us from natural selection/evolution?
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2019-08-08, 10:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: Does sentience remove us from natural selection/evolution?
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2019-08-08, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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