Warforged Eldritch Knight Where to go next?

[Bigmeaty]

Hello All,

I'm trying to figure out where to go next with my character. I'm currently an 8th level Warforged EK with the following stats. 9 Str, 20 Dex, 16 Con, 14 Wis, 19 Int (Headband of Int), and 9 Cha and I've used my ASI/Feats so far on a bump to dex, warcaster and mobile. We're about level up and I'm trying to figure out where to go next. Originally I was going to finish out the character with 12 levels of wizard with evocation, abjuration, or war wizard being the top pics. This would give me overall more utility, more spells slots, and in the case of war wizard at least better initiative and ac with durable magic. But then I was looking through the SCAG and came across the Arcana Domain cleric. Benefits to it are increased cantrip damage eventually, better hit die, different non concentration spells (like spiritual weapon), and healing if necessary. Since both are full casters we'll get to level 7 spell slots. The remaining three ASI's if I go Wizard can be used to pick feats or bump con to make up for the lack of hit die, if I go cleric I pretty much have to bump Wis to 20 to take full advantage of Potent Cantrip. Most of damage right now comes from shadow blade+booming blade+the extra attack you get from War Magic. If I'm doing my math right that averages out to (2d8+5)+(1d8)+(2d8+5)=32.5 DPR. By the time we get Potent Cantrip at 16 if I'm doing my math right for the same attack considering an upcasted shadow blade/booming blade (5th Level) (4d8+5)+(2d8+4)+(4d8+5)=59 DPR before Booming Blade procs (which as I understand it potent cantrip also applies to this damage) so another 22 damage on average. We also have spiritual weapon to contend with. This is going to be a high level campaign so level 20 is a realistic goal.

TLDR: I think wizard will give me the best bang for my buck from the first level I take, but cleric may win out in the long term. What would you guys suggest?

Cheers and thanks for the help! - Ben

[Grimmnist]

I still think Wizard is probably better since as you said it lets you take Con and Feats (like Sentinel!!! to combo with Warcaster Booming Blade). The downsides of Cleric are that you become a MAD lad, your Bonus Action Economy gets pretty crowded (Shadowblade, Healing Word, Spiritual Weapon, War Magic, Second Wind) meaning if you use Spiritual Weapon you won't use Booming Blade (so the bonus cantrip damage won't help), and generally Wizard spells are better than Cleric spells (though Cleric does get some good melee caster spells).

It may make sense to pick Cleric if you have a strong RP reason or your party lacks healing, but I probably wouldn't take 12 levels of Cleric instead getting Fighter up to 12 (gets you Indomitable, 3 attacks a turn, Eldritch Strike, and ASI). This does mean you would only get up to 6th level slots, but even though your Shadowblade is doing 1d8 less damage an attack you would be using it for an addition attack each turn, this also frees up your Bonus Action for Spiritual Weapon.

[Bigmeaty]

What do you think about Arcane trickster? Either EK 12/AT8 or EK8/AT12

[Nhorianscum]

EK 11 is the breakpoint for a game going to 20.

EK 7 or 13 is the break for everything else.

That said you don't "have" to chose.

EK7-11/War Wiz 2/Cleric 11-7 is perfectly viable.

[Grimmnist]

AT could work, you are trading the ability to upcast Shadowblade for Sneak attack (really rough estimate upcasting is +1d8 every two full caster levels, Sneak attack is +1d6 every two rogue levels but you can only use Sneak Attack once per turn). This will be lower on DPR but Rogue gets a lot of other cool features (Expertise, Cunning Action, Evasion, Reliable Talent), your bonus action economy will still be a bit crowded but since Cunning Action is mostly used for utility in positioning yourself it shouldn't be the biggest problem. You will almost certainly want to get Sentinel so you have a better chance of procing Sneak Attack with AoO's.

If you go AT I would recommend the EK 8/ AT 12 split because Rogue gets an extra ASI at 10 as well as Reliable Talent at 11.

[Kane0]

Echoing the others, I think you're on the right track with Wizard. War wizard probably.

[Callin]

War Wizard gives you some nice tricks to compliment the EK. If UA is available and you want some cleric the Theurge isnt horrible either, but my first choice would be the War Wizard with the Toughness Feat. UNLESS you can get Bladesinger lol.

[Bigmeaty]

Haha no bladesinger for me. I'm running a shield and my DM is pretty stalwart about bladesingers just being elves and maybe if you can give him enough of a RP reason then half elf. I still think war wizard is my number one choice.

Regarding the other classes/options I'm not too worried about my bonus action economy as a rogue because of mobile so I don't have to use cunning action very often. But as a cleric, you guys make some good points as a lot of stuff competes with war magic which almost always will do more damage if I'm keeping shadow blade up. Haste is good for durable magic as well but I think shadow blade is the overall better choice as it's more consistent damage. So I guess at this point two main questions remain if I go wizard, what school? I'm open to whatever you suggest if you can make a good case. Or if go rogue what archetype would you take? And taking 12 levels of rogue would guarantee me 4 more ASI so what would you spend them on.

[Grimmnist]

So I guess at this point two main questions remain if I go wizard, what school? I'm open to whatever you suggest if you can make a good case. Or if go rogue what archetype would you take? And taking 12 levels of rogue would guarantee me 4 more ASI so what would you spend them on.

As other people have said War Wizard is a great choice, I have found that school to be lackluster for a pure wizard but it looks like it would work perfectly multiclassed with EK. Other options would include Abjuration for some extra HP though since you have Fighter levels and can work on boosting Con it isn't the biggest deal. Divination has Portent which is always nice but not much else you care about. Enchantment is interesting because a lot of it's features work only at close range (not a Wizard's happy place) but an EK is not nearly as squishy so you may be able to get more value out of them. Evocation is nice but I don't know how much you will use it's early features, though adding your int to Booming Blade at level 10 is nice.

If you go Rogue AT is definitely the way to go since it keeps your spell slots progressing for Shadowblade.

In terms of ASI and feats, Sentinel is a must pick but not much else essential. You probably want to max your Con. Shield Master or Medium Armor Master are both solid though you don't have the strength to get much out of the Shield shove and Mage Armor gives you the same AC as Med Master w/ half-plate (not counting magic armor). Lucky is always useful. Savage attacker might actually be pretty good on this build since you are rolling so many d8's for Shadowblade.

[Bigmeaty]

Thanks Grimmnist....so it sounds like war wizard and arcane trickster are the way to go. I almost though about going divination for two levels just to get a spell book, ritual casting, and more importantly Portent! Maybe an overall spread of 8EK, 2Wiz, 10AT. As far feats sentinel seems pretty nice, I can always max my con. Yeah I dumped strength and cha so I don't think I can make the most out of shield master and currently my AC is 21 and will only go up. Lucky is always a winner! The other crazy thing I could potentially do is go warlock as my DM will let us play the INT based variant but I don't think there is enough synergy maybe I'm missing something.

[Nhorianscum]

Haha no bladesinger for me. I'm running a shield and my DM is pretty stalwart about bladesingers just being elves and maybe if you can give him enough of a RP reason then half elf. I still think war wizard is my number one choice.

Regarding the other classes/options I'm not too worried about my bonus action economy as a rogue because of mobile so I don't have to use cunning action very often. But as a cleric, you guys make some good points as a lot of stuff competes with war magic which almost always will do more damage if I'm keeping shadow blade up. Haste is good for durable magic as well but I think shadow blade is the overall better choice as it's more consistent damage. So I guess at this point two main questions remain if I go wizard, what school? I'm open to whatever you suggest if you can make a good case. Or if go rogue what archetype would you take? And taking 12 levels of rogue would guarantee me 4 more ASI so what would you spend them on.

My good point.

Holy weapon. It's shadow blade, but better.

[Bigmeaty]

So holy weapon looks nice but it's also a 5th level spell which means I won't pick it up for a while. It definitely has nice features but would you say shadow blade is a good stop gap in the mean time?

[Nhorianscum]

So holy weapon looks nice but it's also a 5th level spell which means I won't pick it up for a while. It definitely has nice features but would you say shadow blade is a good stop gap in the mean time?

If you don't have a magic weapon, yes.

[Bigmeaty]

So I'm going Theurgy wizard with the Forge Domain. I want the cool channel divinity feature so I can create tiny things out of different materials and then use animate objects and make them assemble into something akin to a megazord or voltron and wreck havoc on things. No matter how hard I'm swinging, I'm not going to outclass animate object damage. And depending on what you make the the tiny creatures from ie silver, mithril, iron etc you could potentially have different damage effects as well. Is that allowed? As far as I can tell, it'll work RAW.