[3.5/PF] Examples of Gestalt Characters in Fiction

[EndlessKng]

TL;DR: I am curious to see what characters (or series) you feel act as good representations of Gestalt characters, to use as examples for other people. No need for full builds, but a line of classes would be cool to see.

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I have been thinking about this today, and thought I'd ask the internet. There are all sorts of examples of various D&D and Pathfinder classes, but one thing I haven't seen for various reasons are (possible) examples of Gestalt characters in fiction. I say "possible" because many that I've come up with could be statted as single-track characters, but could be Gestalt builds.

That idea is, roughly, that you see characters who appear to advance in two different paths or ability types that are, at least in game terms, usually not associated. For instance, Sakura in Naruto Shippuden (the post-timeskip part of Naruto) is a Monk-Cleric build; this could be done in multiclass or using Spheres of Power (which I love, by the way, but am wanting to avoid here for simplicity) but you could also build her as a Monk/Cleric Gestalt, IMO, as the character advances fairly evenly in both aspects (well... inasmuch as someone can go from having little in the way of character development beyond an unrequited crush and a natural 18 Intelligence at level 1 to being a badass high level healer and martial artist in the background, but it does appear that her traits as a healer and brawler are fairly even). Conversely, someone like Sokka, who starts as a skillmonkey type with some combat skills but not a full mastery, and then trains in swordsmanship with a master, wouldn't be a good Gestalt example, though he's a great example of a multiclass character - he developed Rogue skills, then combat skills. He also develops leadership skills, but that can be done without classes (i.e. through skills and feats).

The other thing (for this project) is that I want to try to avoid over-use of archetypes and variants. This is mostly because I'm looking to use these as examples for others when discussing Gestalt; as such, I don't want to have to point through a mass of variant versions of classes. I'd want to keep it to base and core classes from D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder 1st Edition - Gunslingers, Investigators, and such are fine, but I wouldn't want to have to have people jump through too many add-ons that would require shifting class features (alignment restriction removals are okay, though, and if you HAVE to give an archetype shift, it's not a hard rule). A similar request on non-core prestige classes - it's less of an issue, but I'd ask they only be used if they really fit. And please try to stick to standard gestalt builds and etiquette - it's not a good idea to use a double prestige class to advance two different sides at once (though I'm okay with using a Theurge-build on only one side IF both classes that benefit are on that side, and if the other side is something else altogether - if you can find someone who seems to develop two types of magic a little slowly but in conjunction while also advancing their martial or stealth skills, I'd love to see this.

I am not necessarily looking for full-builds - this isn't a competition - but it would be good to get at least a class list for the character, or an example character from a series (i.e. Rogue 5//Wizard 5, or Monk 20//Cleric 10/Radiant Servant of Pelor 10), and if you just feel like you want to make a full build, by all means.

So... yeah. What do you think?

A few of my examples:

Most Naruto characters can work. As mentioned, we see Sakura jump up in two distinct categories of talent over the timeskip with fairly even results - not necessarily perfectly even, but then again, Monk IS a Tier 5 class versus a Tier 1 Cleric or Tier 2 Shugenja. But many of the characters could be similarly explained - Naruto is a conjurer/ninja or conjurer/monk in part 1 (Shadow Clone being summoned copies of himself, or astral constructs for a Shaper instead), and then adds in some barbarian and psychic warrior (or similar) powers in part 2 as he draws upon the Jinchuuriki and develops an aura of power around himself simultaneously, and others seem to mix strange balances of powers as well.

Bleach, similarly, features a lot of potential gestalt builds. The "average" shinigami trains in both swordsmanship and magic (Kido), and usually to a fairly balanced level with a few outliers to either side (Renji being one who barely learns magic), but still achieving high power spells while not sacrificing martial prowess. Even those who don't become casters seem to have exceptional talent in martial arts (or just high levels of raw power, as Kenpachi doesn't seem to have any actual technique for most of the series, with his "special moves" consisting of removing a parasite from his eye and holding his sword with two hands. I am not joking about that).

For a non-anime example, I think you could make an argument for Batman, especially the Nolanverse version, mastering Ninja and Investigator from Pathfinder roughly simultaneously; he arguably had some of the alchemy/chemistry and detective skills from school and personal development, but in Batman Begins he does learn more about certain substances and alchemy, as well as investigative skills, while training with the League of Shadows, and continues to develop both together. When he is a shut-in in the third movie, he seems to return to both skillsets simultaneously, and his time in the pit doesn't advance either of those but does train him further physically and in terms of determination, furthering him as a martial arts type and some form of determinator class like barbarian.

Again, this is likely a topic full of argumentative topics, but I'd rather focus on adding examples rather than tearing down any. That said, be mindful and don't just argue that a given character could just be a gestalt build - I do want to try and focus in on those characters that develop skill-sets in conjunction but without suffering loss in one from the study in another.

[Maat Mons]

I would argue that every "monk"-style character from popular fiction is a Fighter // Monk gestalt in D&D game mechanics. Tristalt with a psionic class if they can do anything supernatural, or with Expert if they're competent at things that are neither fighting nor magic. And if they can fight, do magic, and do other things, we're up to a quadstalt.

[arkangel111]

I think if you reliably maneuvered from ToB to be mundane you easily get several. Honestly feel ToB should have been purely mundane anyways.

Given the above Rand Althor from wheel of time is likely warblade//Wizard.
I'd probably stat out mattrim cauthon as fighter/swordsage. mainly cause he can fight (BAB) but has some awesome moves that aren't I hit with pointy stick.


Eragon from same title might be statted similarly to rand or perhaps a crusader.
Richard from sword of truth could easily be the same as Rand or Eragon.

not having ToB re-flavored gives you all the DBZ characters which would be unarmed swordsage//warlock (re-flavored of course)
Avatar the last airbender is the same.

I think fiction is littered with examples of gestalt with honestly few main characters being single classed. it's one of the reasons my own fiction has statted out characters using gestalt for main characters and single class all others.

[Psyren]

As the OP is more or less stumbling onto, yes, shonen anime characters would often best be represented by gestalt. Add Fairy Tail, One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, Avatar (I know) and many others to the list.

[Gnaeus]

The easiest examples are going to be full caster/muggle, because we can see the contrast. So.

Gandalf (Marshal//sorcerer) (or outsider, or just really high level)
Elric (fighter or hexBlade//sorcerer)
Grey Mouser (fighter or swashbuckler//wizard/rogue
Rand al Thor (fighter//channeler)

Then there are characters like Fafhrd or Conan, which would probably be best statted as something like: (Barbarian 2/fighter6//rogue 8 or rogue 4/ranger 4). You can see they are too good at fighting for rogue and too skilly for fighter but otherwise you could probably defend a dozen different spreads.

Level reads for realistic fiction are always wonky.

[Eldan]

FitzChivalry Farseer learns a stupid amount of different powers.

He's the bastard son of the crown prince. Trained as a stablehand and later as a noble. Mostly skills.
Then, he is born with the Low Magic. Which lets him read emotions, feel living things at a distance and communicate with animals. Also gains an animal companion. He's also pretty decent in the wilderness and lives alone in the forest for extended parts of his life. Ranger.
He is trained as an assassin. Diplomacy, poison, stealth, deception. Rogue.
Then, he is trained in fighting. With both a sword and a battle axe. Also, occasionally flies into a kind of berserker rage. Strong enough to take down several trained soldiers. Barbarian.
And then, he is also trained in the high magic of kings. Which is mainly telepathy, but also includes things like memory modification, illusions and magical craftsmanship. Wizard and/or psion.

So yes, he's a Ranger Rogue Barbarian Psion.

And yes, I know that makes him sound like a total Mary-Sue.

[Eldan]

The easiest examples are going to be full caster/muggle, because we can see the contrast. So.

Gandalf (Marshal//sorcerer) (or outsider, or just really high level)
Elric (fighter or hexBlade//sorcerer)
Grey Mouser (fighter or swashbuckler//wizard/rogue
Rand al Thor (fighter//channeler)

Then there are characters like Fafhrd or Conan, which would probably be best statted as something like: (Barbarian 2/fighter6//rogue 8 or rogue 4/ranger 4). You can see they are too good at fighting for rogue and too skilly for fighter but otherwise you could probably defend a dozen different spreads.

Level reads for realistic fiction are always wonky.

I'd argue that Mouser is a pretty straight Rogue who just puts points in Use Magic Device. He may very well be the reason why rogues gain UMD in the first place.

[Gnaeus]

I'd argue that Mouser is a pretty straight Rogue who just puts points in Use Magic Device. He may very well be the reason why rogues gain UMD in the first place.

He definitely casts at some points. It might be better to call him wizard/fighter//rogue. The classic AD&D build was something like fighter 12, wizard 3, rogue 15. I would disagree with a build that didn’t give him casting.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Taek Jaegal from God of Highschool. You could probably argue that a lot of power borrowers in the setting are gestalt for the same reason as shonen characters, but Taek Jaegal stands out as not feeling like a monk or fighter, but something like a Wizard//Barbarian, or possibly Wizard//Warblade. The dude is terrifying.

[EndlessKng]

I would argue that every "monk"-style character from popular fiction is a Fighter // Monk gestalt in D&D game mechanics. Tristalt with a psionic class if they can do anything supernatural, or with Expert if they're competent at things that are neither fighting nor magic. And if they can fight, do magic, and do other things, we're up to a quadstalt.

Yeah, most "monk" types clearly aren't just monks, or some other facsimile for them (i.e. Swordsage). I think you could sort of avoid the Fighter//monk in the build with a Swordsage or Warblade with an unarmed focus, honestly, which can lower the number needed, but even then, you still need two or more things at once.

I think if you reliably maneuvered from ToB to be mundane you easily get several. Honestly feel ToB should have been purely mundane anyways.

Given the above Rand Althor from wheel of time is likely warblade//Wizard.
I'd probably stat out mattrim cauthon as fighter/swordsage. mainly cause he can fight (BAB) but has some awesome moves that aren't I hit with pointy stick.


Eragon from same title might be statted similarly to rand or perhaps a crusader.
Richard from sword of truth could easily be the same as Rand or Eragon.

not having ToB re-flavored gives you all the DBZ characters which would be unarmed swordsage//warlock (re-flavored of course)
Avatar the last airbender is the same.

I think fiction is littered with examples of gestalt with honestly few main characters being single classed. it's one of the reasons my own fiction has statted out characters using gestalt for main characters and single class all others.

I definitely agree that most fictional characters would need multiple classes; it's part of what caused me to shun level-based games for a while, and why I still hesitate with some of them. Many characters still are just multiclassed or archetyped, but I do feel that Gestalt could be used to represent a lot more readily. Out of curiosity, do you count your villains in the "main character/gestalt" basket there? At risk of a tangent, if so, which builds have you found most interesting to write as antagonists?

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Also remembered one of my other examples: Doctor Strange! At least, the movie version. Build videos always make him a wizard, but much of his magic is based on items, especially in the first movie - in a single class world, I'd just as soon make him a monk with some sweet items and artifacts, and some caster multi (though he goes more caster in Infinity War). But in a gestalt game, I can see him being a martial artist//caster gestalt, since he is developing both sets of skills not only simultaneously but in conjunction - like in AtLA, the two are connected.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'd probably stat out mattrim cauthon as fighter/swordsage. mainly cause he can fight (BAB) but has some awesome moves that aren't I hit with pointy stick.

I'd peg Mat as definitely a rogue, because especially early on he's a skilled character, not a warrior. He's also an interesting case because he's pretty close to being gestalted in universe (for spoilery reasons I won't go into). For those reasons I'd say he's Rogue (and maybe Marshal or some other leadership class) on one side and Warblade (and maybe Eternal Blade) on the other side, with an emphasis on Tiger Claw, using his polearm as a double weapon.

[Eldan]

He definitely casts at some points. It might be better to call him wizard/fighter//rogue. The classic AD&D build was something like fighter 12, wizard 3, rogue 15. I would disagree with a build that didn’t give him casting.

I haven't read all Lankhmar stories, obviously, but the only time I remember him casting was when he tried to defeat some mages hired by an opposing king. As I remember it, he tried to cast a spell that he had been given by some more properly educated mage, flubbed it and managed to kill all the mages on his own side. That seems like a classical example of trying to read a high level scroll with UMD and rolling a 1, combined with a quite evil DM.