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2019-09-10, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-09-10, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
It could've been part of Hel's plan to give HPoH authority to redelegate the title, so her most useful clergy were free to leave.
Other clergies with more established rules will work differently, because they're not two weeks old and have needed frameworks to stop random adventuring clerics declaring themselves High Priests just because they got 6th level spells.
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2019-09-10, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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2019-09-10, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-09-10, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
The short hand version: 3.5/Pathfinder Sorcerers are considered a "Tier 2" class. This means they're almost as good as you can get, in any hypothetical setup. They share the Wizard's spell list and have full spell caster progression (to level 9 spells, and Epic, etc). And, like the Wizard, a Sorcerer only 'needs' a single stat (their Charisma) to be fully effective, with anything else being a negligible penalty or icing on the cake for bonuses.
However, a Wizard in the same editions are considered "Tier 1", mostly because of the aforementioned balance decisions by the game's creators. In theory, they're much more powerful than Sorcerers of the same effective optimization. In practice, this can range a bit wildly depending on campaign, play style, build, spells chosen and the availability of other spells, player experience, etc.
Ultimately, they fill the same role in a party (ie the Arcane Spellcaster) and, so long as they don't make a point of spoiling each other's fun (or the fun of the other party members) it may not matter much on a group by group basis.
For a more detailed explanation, you might want to look through the 3.5/Pathfinder section of the Roleplaying sub-forums here on the Playground.Last edited by Talion; 2019-09-10 at 10:32 AM.
Avatar by the lovely and talented Linklele
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2019-09-10, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Isn't the main difference that wizards can typically fill many different roles with proper planning, whereas sorcerers have flexibility in executing their role but is limited in what roles they can actually fill due to restrictions on spells known?
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2019-09-10, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Oh, I totally agree; the wizard is way more utilitarian, while the sorcerer is able to cast on the fly but from a significantly smaller pool, so that seems like a pretty good tradeoff. That said, I wouldn't completely discount also having the extra level required for a new spell level, because spontaneous casting is pretty powerful.
Oh, also, even though wizards and sorcerers mostly share the same spell list, there are a few spells that are wizard only. Which I can understand, wizards do intense study and research and can try to invent new things. There are zero core spells that are sorcerer only, though, which I don't understand; there's a case to be made that some things can't be learned, but nope, wizards get a seat at the table and sorcs get the scraps that fall off the plate.
I did like that 5e made metamagic a sorcerer-only thing; not that I think wizards shouldn't be able to, but it made a slightly clearer demarcation between the classes and gave extra flavor to the sorc, even if I think they still got the short end of the stick in 5e as well.
I actually played the opposite; I've done a Sorcerer who acted somewhat like a Wizard, spellbook and everything, under the idea that if he ever got captured, jailed, etc., that the opponents would believe that taking the spellbook and spell component pouch away would allow effective imprisonment. Also took Silent Spell and Still Spell feats, too; that was one paranoid caster, I tells ya.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-09-10, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Hel is cheating every chance she can. As Gontor said, prove otherwise.
The rest comes from a conversation we had back when the Godsmoot first popped up. Malack was High Priest of Nergal. How did his replacement suddenly know he'd been promoted, and in time for the Western session of the Godsmoot?
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2019-09-10, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2019-09-10, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Since some silver dragon looking guy identified one of the clerics as wearing the Nergal uniform, pretty confident.
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2019-09-10, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by the lovely and talented Linklele
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2019-09-10, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2019-09-10, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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2019-09-10, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2019-09-10, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-10, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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- France
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Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-09-10, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
And have to spend more actions to apply metamagic when they cast, unlike wizards....And action economy is life-or-death (literally in some cases).
I wholly get that spontaneous casting was a new concept, and that assuming mostly damage-dealing spells means the delayed access isn't as big a deal since most damage spells were d6-per-caster-level anyway....But it goes overboard counteracting the value of flexibility, like two different people had different ideas of how to balance it and both were implemented. And this is before considering the number of "highly effective for its spell level because it only works in niche cases" spells, which a wizard can simply leave it in a spellbook and only prepare when they need it while a sorcerer has to weigh it against any other spell of that level. A sorcerer is pounded (maybe even kiloed!) by opportunity costs.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-09-10, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
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2019-09-10, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
I thought they got eschew materials as a class feature?
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2019-09-10, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Another case that D&D's magic system is a kludge, frankly. It probably needs a ground up rebuild each edition, but changing that is a major sacred cow.
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2019-09-10, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
I don't even remember commenting on that, frankly. And looking back, yeah, I only see one cloaky guy and it doesn't look black.
"What's Quicken Spell" - every 3.5 sorcerer ever.
Yeah, for some reason I thought I'd said that.
In Pathfinder, yes. D&D, no.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-09-10, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Oops I continue to not know D&D stuff.
Speaking of metamagic I want to try playing a wizard with the sacred geometry feat (idk if it's in d&d but PF has it) but I don't know if I can actually do mental math on that fast enough to keep the GM from making a grapple check to strangle me.
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2019-09-10, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Jasdoif; 2019-09-10 at 11:59 AM.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-09-10, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
To be fair, I didn't spend a feat slot but convinced the DM to give it to me free. I think the argument had something along the lines of "they have innate magic, how innate is 'by the way you need to chuck a little bat poop around, you do NOT want to know how the first sorcerer figured that out!'"
Last edited by Peelee; 2019-09-10 at 12:05 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-09-10, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
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- Arizona USA
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Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Just as an aside: I suspect that we are back at the Godsmoot for one last reason, akin to what happened at the end of the last book:
Something big is about to happen. And it involves someone at the Godsmoot."Character is what you are in the dark." - D.L. Moody
Life's too short to be ashamed of how you were born.
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2019-09-10, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-09-10, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Disagree. We're at the Godsmoot to explain why the clerics don't rush to help Roy (or Stop him for the "YES" voters).
However, I will say the fact that everyone talk about how Curly isn't going to do anything meaningful means that she's going to do exactly that.
We'll see her doing something for the next book.
Still betting on her reaching out to Team Evil.
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2019-09-10, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: OOTS #1179 - The Discussion Thread
Why would she reach out to Team Evil?
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2019-09-10, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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2019-09-10, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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