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Thread: Minrah's level
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2019-10-06, 06:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Minrah's level
Yes, I know the author considers D&D rules as mere guidelines to help deliver the story.
That being said, I'm curious about Minrah's current level and how much xp she needs to gain to be a contributing to the Order.
Sure she was pretty good in the Hel arc, but most of their enemies were low level vampires. It wouldn't make sense having her starting to kick ass as much as, let's say, Belkar or even Elan.""Jeez, this dress! i look like a dominatrix""
(self-loathing): ""Actually , you look like a sorceress or something""
""Hey, no need to get cruel""
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2019-10-06, 07:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Czech Republic
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Re: Minrah's level
She is a multiclass Cleric/Fighter, and she has 3rd level spells, and did not demonstrate any spells above. So she has 5-6 Cleric levels and at least 1 Fighter level, minus 1 level because she died.
There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.
Silent member of Zz'dtri's #698 Scrying Sensor Explanation Club.
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2019-10-06, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
Re: Minrah's level
Level isn't everything. She can still contribute in ways that don't involve dealing large amounts of damage.
There was a whole sequence about that involving a certain elf, a raven, and a phylactery.
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2019-10-06, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: Minrah's level
Familiars are often underestimated and easy to dismiss in battle. An adventurer rarely has that luxury.
""Jeez, this dress! i look like a dominatrix""
(self-loathing): ""Actually , you look like a sorceress or something""
""Hey, no need to get cruel""
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2019-10-06, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: Minrah's level
She pretty much told Roy that he has no idea what level she is (and that might even have been a tiny bit of Rich trolling the forum on this very subject).
It wouldn’t be crazy to conclude that she was saying she has more fighter (or some other fighter-like class) levels than cleric, which combined with her having 5-6 cleric levels, would mean she’s already near (or at) a level where she might be expected to contribute. It’s not totally explicit though, that she has that many fighter levels, but it’s pretty clear that we can’t pin down her level any further than was stated above—just note that that’s a minimum and we can’t really establish a useful maximum given the randomness of damage rolls and hit point totals.
Also, whatever it was, it’s one less now that she’s been resurrected, but we don’t know if she lost a cleric level or fighter level.
We’ll be keeping track over in the geekery thread as more evidence presents itself.
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2019-10-06, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: Minrah's level
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-10-06, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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- Ottawa, Canada
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Re: Minrah's level
When she first joins the Order to fight the vampires she says she was a guard before she was a cleric and that “I’m not the best caster but I have a hammer and I know how to swing it”. In 1180 she insists that she’s “a great fighter!”.
I’d guess based on that that she has more levels of Fighter than Cleric, but that’s only a guess.Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2019-10-06 at 10:47 PM.
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2019-10-07, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Valencia, Spain
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Re: Minrah's level
Minrah describes herself as a "great fighter". Therefore, she has at least 4 fighter levels, as Level 3 is dumb level.
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2019-10-07, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- Brazil
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Re: Minrah's level
Even though I do think she has more than the minimum 1 Fighter level we currently estimate, I believe Thog isn't on good authority to call anything or anyone "dumb".
More on the discussions about Minrah's level (and stats, and feats, an skills) can be found here.Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-10-07, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Re: Minrah's level
Vaarsuvius was also depowered at that point, and Ochul was without weapons and armor. the point of that scene wasn't "familiars can be sneaky in a big fight", it was "sheer power isn't the only thing that matters". It was a direct refutation of Xykon's rant. Or possibly confirming it, as he was using what would be a minor skill to find Vaarsuvius while Vaarsuvius used a minor spell to enable removing his phylactery from their possession.
To use a more well known example, Frodo, Sam, and Gollum weren't a threat to anyone but undoubtedly are the ones who had the most impact on the mission in Lord of the Rings.
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2019-10-07, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: Minrah's level
Sam stabbed Shelob. Gondorian Knights and elf-lords have died to that thing. Beren freaking Erchamion, the greatest Hero of Men, failed to pierce her hide but Sam sent it crawling back to its lair bleeding quite possibly to death. Gollum routinely kills orcs, has travelled some of the most dangerous places of Middle-Earth completely alone, was tortured by Sauron in person and kept fighting after being slashed in the belly by a sword and thrown down a chasm. Even Frodo stabs wights and stands up to all nine Black Riders while dying of a witch-wound.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-10-07, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Minrah's level
It doesn't actually state that Beren had fought Shelob before - only that if he had, he wouldn't have been able to pierce her hide with strength alone:
But Shelob was not as dragons are, no softer spot had she save only her eyes. Knobbed and pitted with corruption was her age-old hide, but ever thickened from within with layer on layer of evil growth. The blade scored it with a dreadful gash, but those hideous folds could not be pierced by any strength of men, not though Elf or Dwarf should forge the steel or the hand of Beren or of Túrin wield it. She yielded to the stroke, and then heaved up the great bag of her belly high above Sam's head. Poison frothed and bubbled from the wound. Now splaying her legs she drove her huge bulk down on him again. Too soon. For Sam still stood upon his feet, and dropping his own sword, with both hands he held the elven-blade point upwards, fending off that ghastly roof; and so Shelob, with the driving force of her own cruel will, with strength greater than any warrior's hand, thrust herself upon a bitter spike. Deep, deep it pricked, as Sam was crushed slowly to the ground.
No such anguish had Shelob ever known, or dreamed of knowing, in all her long world of wickedness. Not the doughtiest soldier of old Gondor, nor the most savage Orc entrapped, had ever thus endured her, or set blade to her beloved flesh.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2019-10-07, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: Minrah's level
Ah, I thought it did, which would make sense since Beren crossed the valley where she was born on his way to Doriath.
Still, Sam pierced one of her eyes. No one dealt her such a wound before.
Aragorn also commended his fighting skills back in Moria when he killed his first orc, saying that many warriors don’t fare as well as he did.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-10-07, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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2019-10-07, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: Minrah's level
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-10-07, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2019-10-07, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Minrah's level
I remember a snippet of it, and Google that snippet in the hope of finding a larger section which I can copy-paste.
Usually it works.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2019-10-07, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: Minrah's level
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2019-10-07, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2019
Re: Minrah's level
She was also able to defeat the unnamed dwarf vampire seemingly on her lonesome. Said vampire is at least 9th level, and a fair bit more dangerous than her class level would suggest thanks to being a vampire. Assuming Minrah did indeed win a one-on-one fight, that'd put her level at least in the high single digits, if not low teens. Still a fair bit behind the Order, but not by a huge gap.
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2019-10-07, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: Minrah's level
I shall point out that pre-death she was leveled 5-6 in cleric alone, I'd guess that currently she's about the same level as the OOTS was in strip one (so about 8, give or take one level), lower than the main Paladins, higher than Daigo and Kazumi, I'd guess that Bandana is the same level.
Why would she defeat the vampire alone? There were like fifteen allies in the room with her and only 9 enemies (including the vampire), one of which was already knocked out when she started fighting, and then Logann seemed to get rid of 3 more all on his own, I imagine most of the guards were out quickly leaving quite a few left to help her fight Sandy.Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2019-10-08, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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2019-10-08, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: Minrah's level
Yes we do. She essentially said she took the "guard" levels before she was a cleric, and the level lost is always the most recent. So she's down a cleric level, and if she lost more levels, it would keep being from the cleric pile until she ran out.
It's a similar situation to O'Chul - all his non-Paladin levels predate the Paladin ones.Last edited by Reboot; 2019-10-08 at 12:30 PM.
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2019-10-08, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-10-08, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
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The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-10-08, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Minrah's level
Technically I’m not even 100% sure we can safely conclude that she never took another fighter level since she multiclassed to cleric...
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2019-10-09, 08:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Minrah's level
To sum up what we have on Minrah's level:
- She cast Searing Light, so she was Cleric 5+ before death.
- She was a guard before being a cleric, so she had 1+ level(s) in some martial class before death.
- She said she was a great fighter. That leads to the conclusion that her martial "guard" class was Fighter, hence Fighter 1+.
- She died and was raised, thus losing a level. That level might be a Cleric one, or a Fighter one, so Cleric 4+ (since we didn't see her casting any 3rd level spell yet after being raised) and Fighter 1+ (because, even if she lost a Fighter level, she shouldn't lose her first one).
And that's how we have Fighter 1+/Cleric 4+.
That's the bare minimum we've been able to gather evidence for. The "great fighter" speech seems to imply she has more levels of fighter, and I fully agree with it, but we have no idea how many more, so 1+ still holds true.
She seemed unharmed (besides the blindness) right before being one-hit-killed by the Empowered Flame Strike, which means her Hp went from full to (at least) -10 with that attack. Hylgia's Empowered Flame Strike dealt something beetween 11 and 135, which means her full Hp should be equal or less than 125. From the previous strikes she took from Belkar, we know she has at least 53 Hp in full Hp, possibly more (more on the calculations here), which means her ull Hp is beetween 53 and 125, a fairly wide range, that can be achieved by various ways. Sorry. No additional clues here.Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-10-09, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- Scotland
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Re: Minrah's level
There's an exception to that. She could have failed a Massive Damage save. Any time you take 50+ HP in damage in one go you must make a DC 15 Fort save, and anyone can roll a 1.Last edited by Quartz; 2019-10-09 at 03:33 PM.
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2019-10-09, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
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- Brazil
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Re: Minrah's level
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-10-10, 04:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
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- A dungeon
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2019-10-10, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: Minrah's level
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"