Is a vampire "alive" as a bat?

[Azi]

Usually in my D&D games, I say there are no "half-vampires" because... well, they lay out vamps as being dead and the dead can't... reproduce because biology. But then I got to talking with a friend DM (who usually feels the same on the topic) and we started questioning whether a druid and vampire could reproduce as bats because a bat is a living creature and they take on the physical attributes of a bat, then changing back a druid is living... We've each had players request half-vampire races in the past and it's really only been based on the undead wording that we said no, so any thoughts? What's your home rulings? And if the could be born as "half-vampire," are they undead?

[Wilko]

Using their shapechanger ability I would say no, the ability specifies that "Its statistics, other than its size and speed, are unchanged." which would mean that it is still of the undead creature type. This would seem to me that a Vampire bat is to a bat as a Vampire is to a human, so if they can't reproduce as one they can not as the other either.
A vampire with druid levels gets a bit more possible as they do change creature type using wildshape, in that case I would probably rule that they are alive, mostly the living parents race with some lingering vampiric features...

[Wizard_Lizard]

no. they would be half-bat. Or even full bat if you are feeling mean.

[Millstone85]

Usually in my D&D games, I say there are no "half-vampires" because... well, they lay out vamps as being dead and the dead can't... reproduce because biology.

Undeath is in-between life and death, with vampires, at least well fed ones, clearly being the most living of the living dead. Plus, dhampirs are cool.

But then I got to talking with a friend DM (who usually feels the same on the topic) and we started questioning whether a druid and vampire could reproduce as bats because a bat is a living creature and they take on the physical attributes of a bat, then changing back a druid is living...

So, have you ever seen one of those charts that go human/catgirl/anthro/toon/beast? Personal taste, but I find what you depict to be way too near the beast end.

[GreyBlack]

Using their shapechanger ability I would say no, the ability specifies that "Its statistics, other than its size and speed, are unchanged." which would mean that it is still of the undead creature type. This would seem to me that a Vampire bat is to a bat as a Vampire is to a human, so if they can't reproduce as one they can not as the other either.
A vampire with druid levels gets a bit more possible as they do change creature type using wildshape, in that case I would probably rule that they are alive, mostly the living parents race with some lingering vampiric features...

Just wanted to say that vampire bats are just regular bats. They're not undead at all.

./intentionallymissingthepoint

[Laserlight]

Half bat, half vampire pixie?

Seems like a batty idea.

I'm not keen on vampires being playable (unless you're in Dungeons the Dragoning 40K 7e or something similar), and I think "half vampires" is rather missing the point of "vampire". But if you want to allow it, then "a druid with no hint of common sense got it on with a questionable bat" is probably a way to do it while limiting the population.

[Azi]

Thanks, I was mostly asking for an upcoming "monster" campaign. Some of the players will get into the "couple CR too high" range but I have told players before that vampires tip the scale a bit too much. I just notices that many are choosing characters that aren't too OP this time and so the question was brought up again. If I do let them, I will keep them fairly close to living race as opposed to undead, but this may need further deliberation... I'll check back in if anyone else has thoughts.

[Bohandas]

Undeath is in-between life and death,

In standard D&D isn't it technically past death and into negative life? Since they have negative life energy?

[JackPhoenix]

Thanks, I was mostly asking for an upcoming "monster" campaign. Some of the players will get into the "couple CR too high" range but I have told players before that vampires tip the scale a bit too much. I just notices that many are choosing characters that aren't too OP this time and so the question was brought up again. If I do let them, I will keep them fairly close to living race as opposed to undead, but this may need further deliberation... I'll check back in if anyone else has thoughts.

You may want to check vampire races from Planeshift Zendikar (though that one can technically get unlimited zombie minions) and Ixalan (that one just sucks. Blood, that is). They aren't especially powerful as far as PC races go and won't break anything (again, ignoring the unlimited zombies).

[Millstone85]

In standard D&D isn't it technically past death and into negative life? Since they have negative life energy?

You are right. But then, perhaps undead have negative biology.

[MagneticKitty]

Maybe if resisting vampire curse has a dc applied (I dunno haven't read the stat block) half vampires are created after successfully resisting a bite. And their decendants.