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2019-10-16, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Designing a sea faring Naga/Yuanti/Snake Person civilization
I want to create a civilization of seafaring merchant-slaver snake-people for a campaign setting I am creating. I am trying to figure out how their physical design might make their civilization different from a humanoid one. Ideally, I want them to be a navally dominant civilization. (With this dominance threatened/declining with the human discovery of gunpowder).
Physical Description: They are 10-12 feet long head to tail. The first three feet of the body is a scaly, humanoid torso. The rest of the body is a snake (perhaps anaconda) midriff and tail.
How might the Naga body-shape affect the following? :
1. Ship design:
- The Naga are probably better swimmers than their humanoid counterparts. I think they could design a ship suited to their bodies, but it would
probably look very different from a caravel or galley. (For example, human-style oars would physically not work for them. Sails/masts would probably have a different shape as well).
- For warfare, I imagine them building large fleets of small, maneuverable vessels. ( They might look like scaled-up versions of Polynesian ships). The purpose of these ships would be to get close enough to allow Naga marines to swim up an enemy vessel and sink/capture it.
- (If anyone has suggestions for Rennaissance level water-proof weapons that they could use for this sort of action, let me know).
- In peacetime, I imagine that they would similar ship designs for cargo transport. They could mitigate risk by dividing cargo amongst many small ships instead of one large boat.
- I would appreciate any thoughts or alternative suggestions.
2. Warfare and Raids
- Naval Raids: I want them to frequently engage in Viking-style looting and slaving raids against the humanoid civilizations, but I don't know if that makes physical sense. Assuming equivalent levels of magic+tech, would a snake body be able to move fast enough to catch up a fleeing human? Assuming we give it enough strength, would it be able to drag a resisting human to the boats, or would its snake tail make that movement too awkward? If they can't do the physical raids themselves (without an absurd amount of author fiat), then I would have them use humanoid (human, dwarf, and/or elvish) mercenaries instead, which means I would have to create a much more integrated society then I had originally planned for.
- Larger Scale Battles: In a one on one fight, the Naga would be deadly. At close range, they simply constrict their opponents to death. At medium range, they could use spears and cobra-style strikes to great effect. At long range, they have a slight disadvantage because they are a large target, but they can still dodge in unexpected ways. I don't know what sort of tactics they might employ for large scale battles and would appreciate suggestions.
- Cavalry: I think a Naga body would be too heavy/awkward to ride a horse normally. On their home peninsula + islands, I think they could use chariots, but those are not easy to transport over the ocean. If the other civs have calvary reserves patrolling the coastlines, are hit and run style raids still feasible for them?
3. Farming
- I imagine that they would be very dependant on aquatic farming and rice farming.
- On land, I don't know how easily they could do normal farming tasks and herding tasks.
4. Architecture and construction:
- Does anyone have any thoughts on how a Naga body-type might affect architecture and city design? Could they carry/ drag heavy loads as easily as the humanoid races could?
If anyone can think of any other implications that a half-snake/half-human body might have on civilization or culture, let me know.
Other Setting Notes
Tech Level: Early Rennessaince Equivalent
Magic Level: Magic is difficult to use, unreliable, but powerful. Think of the Warhammer Fantasy setting for an equivalent.
Local Climate: They in a semi-tropical peninsula and archipelago covered in grasslands, swamps and mangrove forests
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2019-10-16, 10:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
Re: Designing a sea faring Naga/Yuanti/Snake Person civilization
Bigger ships have certain advantages in naval warfare over smaller ones - like ramming - which is an issue. Also, your naga might face some difficulties boarding a ship. While a snake-like body enables one to climb poles with ease, the much greater body mass might make it impossible for them to lift themselves hand over hand, which could make shipboarding rather difficult.
In peacetime, I imagine that they would similar ship designs for cargo transport. They could mitigate risk by dividing cargo amongst many small ships instead of one large boat.
Naval Raids: I want them to frequently engage in Viking-style looting and slaving raids against the humanoid civilizations, but I don't know if that makes physical sense. Assuming equivalent levels of magic+tech, would a snake body be able to move fast enough to catch up a fleeing human? Assuming we give it enough strength, would it be able to drag a resisting human to the boats, or would its snake tail make that movement too awkward? If they can't do the physical raids themselves (without an absurd amount of author fiat), then I would have them use humanoid (human, dwarf, and/or elvish) mercenaries instead, which means I would have to create a much more integrated society then I had originally planned for.
Larger Scale Battles: In a one on one fight, the Naga would be deadly. At close range, they simply constrict their opponents to death. At medium range, they could use spears and cobra-style strikes to great effect. At long range, they have a slight disadvantage because they are a large target, but they can still dodge in unexpected ways. I don't know what sort of tactics they might employ for large scale battles and would appreciate suggestions.
Cavalry: I think a Naga body would be too heavy/awkward to ride a horse normally. On their home peninsula + islands, I think they could use chariots, but those are not easy to transport over the ocean. If the other civs have calvary reserves patrolling the coastlines, are hit and run style raids still feasible for them?
Note that, in a fantasy setting non-traditional mounts are possible and even quite likely. Naga could utilize crocodile cavalry, for example.
I imagine that they would be very dependant on aquatic farming and rice farming.
On land, I don't know how easily they could do normal farming tasks and herding tasks.
While the naga might have difficulty with plowing, they might actually be better at other agricultural tasks simply because a serpentine body bends easier than a human one (agricultural labor is described a 'back-breaking' for a very specific reason). So crops that aren't plowed - such as deepwater rice - would be ideal. They would also likely be able to harvest tree crops grown in orchards very effectively.
Does anyone have any thoughts on how a Naga body-type might affect architecture and city design? Could they carry/ drag heavy loads as easily as the humanoid races could?
If anyone can think of any other implications that a half-snake/half-human body might have on civilization or culture, let me know.
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2019-10-16, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Designing a sea faring Naga/Yuanti/Snake Person civilization
On farming - it's worth keeping in mind that the trophic pyramid biomass distribution for land and sea look pretty much completely different. On land you get the 10-1 ratio, where you have 10 biomass of plants for every biomass of plant eater, 10 biomass of plant eaters for every biomass of primary predator, etc. (keeping in mind that the pyramid is messy and there's lots of things that occupy multiple levels.
The ocean doesn't work like that, instead being top heavy. The 10-1 ratio only applies to flows, where 10 times as much biomass grows and is eaten in level N as in level N+1, mostly starting with zooplankton and algae at the bottom. For stocks you get a more inverted pyramid, where there is way more biomass in fish than algae, and in big predators than in smaller prey fish. This also tends to apply to rivers, though there's more variation there.
So, how does this relate to farming? It suggests that the farm shouldn't be the basis of food - instead, that should be the managed fishery. Set up large net based fisheries on currents, where food is swept through (tiny zooplankton), but fish aren't. Slightly inland you also have lake fisheries, wetland fisheries (though this might be an exception to the rule, where farming actually works), etc.
Note that I'm assuming that they're not just sea faring, but effectively amphibious. If they're land based but just marginally better swimmers this analysis applies a lot less.I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2019-10-17, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
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Re: Designing a sea faring Naga/Yuanti/Snake Person civilization
Please note, I tend to answer from a "makes the story interesting" rather than a strict "makes most sense" POV.
Maybe bulk up the torso so it is proportionally larger for the scale, otherwise you run into perceived square/cube law problems with lifting themselves etc.
1. Ship design
For warfare, I imagine them building large fleets of small, maneuverable vessels. ( They might look like scaled-up versions of Polynesian ships). The purpose of these ships would be to get close enough to allow Naga marines to swim up an enemy vessel and sink/capture it.
In peacetime, I imagine that they would similar ship designs for cargo transport. They could mitigate risk by dividing cargo amongst many small ships instead of one large boat.
Naval Raids:
Larger Scale Battles: In a one on one fight, the Naga would be deadly. At close range, they simply constrict their opponents to death.At medium range, they could use spears and cobra-style strikes to great effect. At long range, they have a slight disadvantage because they are a large target, but they can still dodge in unexpected ways. I don't know what sort of tactics they might employ for large scale battles and would appreciate suggestions.
Cavalry:
Farming
Architecture and construction:Last edited by Evil DM Mark3; 2019-10-17 at 06:49 AM.
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2019-10-17, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: Designing a sea faring Naga/Yuanti/Snake Person civilization
I want them to be land based creatures that have created a coastal/sea faring culture. A normal Naga will have the following advantages over humanoids when it comes to swimming:
• Their serpentine bodies allow them to faster
• Unlike human skin, immersion in water doesn’t make scales soft, puffy or pruned,.
• Their scales probably more resistant to wetland parasites such as leaches and mosquitos.
However:
• They still need to breath air (no gills), and their lung capacity is equivalent to that of a humanoid.
Snakes, when their bodies are at a suitable temperature (which would not likely be an issue as I assume your naga will be endothermic instead)
I think will make them warmblooded to keep world building simple on my end.
I will probably have them give live birth for the same reason.
Regarding divided gender roles, would this be based on the argument a society can survive demographically if it loses 90% of its males in a sea raid gone wrong, but not if it loses 45% of its males and 45% of its females? (Certainly, this to make sense), or are there additional factors?
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2019-10-17, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: Designing a sea faring Naga/Yuanti/Snake Person civilization
At this point, I should talk about their religion, because it affects their biology. [Yes, this is inspired by Lovecraft’s ‘Shadow Over Innsmouth’].
They worship an ocean god they refer to as ‘The Maw’. The Maw (as at least in the dreams of its worshippers) is a mile-wide abyss or eel-mouth, located in the center of the Southern Sea. The Corral City rings around the edge to the Maw. This city gives shelter to Deep Ones and formerly land-dwelling worshippers, who have mutated to adapt to life under water.
The Maw’s Hunger is infinite, but so are its gifts.
Every year, a religious procession sails to the center of South Sea with dozens (hundreds?) of female sentients of childbearing age. (Some of these sacrifices are slaves, others are willing Naga worshippers). The Priests and Priestesses dump these sacrifices into the ocean. A few days later, literal boat loads of gold-colored jewelry, with marked with (un)holy symbols of the Maw, will float to the surface.
If worshipper takes this piece of jewelry, washes it a mixture of seawater and their own blood, and wears it, they will receive the protection of Maw. This has the following positive effects:
• Better luck sailing (calmer weather, no trouble from sea monsters ect)
• Better luck fishing (more productive catches, useful items will wash ashore when you are new oceans, lakes and rivers).
• Better luck in general
• Swimming and holding one’s breath are far easier
• Priests and Priestess may accesspathfinder first edition spell listseldritch magic
However, it also has the following effects:
• They feel a desire to live near the sea and swim in the ocean
• Worshippers will, on rare occasions, have days where they feel infinite hunger that nothing can satisfy. On these days they receive no nourishment from the food they eat.
• They will sometimes dream of the Maw and the City of Corral
• On rare occasions they receive fleeting urges to drown themselves and/or others in the ocean.
• Over many years, they develop fish-like features. (Big, bulging eyes, webbing between the fingers and toes, gills). As they age becomes less interested in affairs on land and become more obsessed with swimming to the City of Corral.
It is rare for a Naga to die of old age. Instead, they usually dive into the ocean, and start swimming towards the Coral City. Worshippers call this act ‘The Final Pilgrimage’. They believe that the Maw grants his worshippers protection and eternal life on this ‘Pilgrimage’.
Other fluff notes
• Most humanoids mistakenly believe that these periods of extreme hunger, the slow growth of amphibian features, and the obsession with the sea, are natural parts of Naga biology.
• Many sailors from human/humanoid cultures also secretly worship the Maw, although such worship is officially forbidden in most of these societies
• If the sacrifices are large enough, the priests will receive mundane gold, coral, and pearl jewelry as well. An exceptionally large sacrifice will result in unique and irreplaceable magic items as well.
• There is an undead pirate faction that has recently begun to worship the Maw, after hearing about from Naga priests, although that’s a topic for another thread.
• (Sometimes, the Maw will request other types of sacrifices as well. For example, one year, through the power of dreams, it told its priests to obtain a certain set of ancient clay tablets from the land of Kaddeth. The Maw forbade them from reading the tablets, recording their contents, or making copies. The Maw forbade them from allowing anyone else to do so. The Maw commanded that once the recovered the tablets, they were to take them to center of the Southern Sea and drop them into the ocean. In return, it granted them a powerful diadem).Last edited by amkirkla; 2019-10-17 at 10:13 AM.
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2019-10-17, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
Re: Designing a sea faring Naga/Yuanti/Snake Person civilization
Why do the serpent people worship the fish god? Snakes have nothing more in common with fish than primates do. The Maw changing people into serpent people other than fish people doesn't make sense to me.
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2019-10-17, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: Designing a sea faring Naga/Yuanti/Snake Person civilization
I think I worded my post badly. Worshipping the Maw will not turn you in serpent person. Worshipping the Maw turns you into a fish hybrid. Naga who worships the Maw ages into serpent fish hybrid. A human who worships The Maw will age into a human fish hybrid etc. Naga who does not worship the Maw will remain fully Naga throughout his/her entire life.
I wanted to create a Lovecraftian sea god for them to worship. I thought their relationship with the Maw could reflect a maritime culture's relationship with the sea. The sea provides them with a livelyhood, but at the cost of sailors who die at sea. The Maw provides gifts, but at the cost of sacrifices, and ultimately the lives of its worshippers.Last edited by amkirkla; 2019-10-17 at 10:33 PM.