Mercenaries and prices

[VoidsHeiress]

So, current situation, party is gathering up hirelings and such to go with them towards certain doom fortune and glory.

The problem being, I don't know what to price them, the rulebook gives a 2gp per day figure for a single merc which is described as "trained" but gives no actual guidelines towards what kind of levels these would have (though I can't imagine it being a lot).
So I'd like your ideas on how to handle mercenaries especially towards the pricing end, there's no way a 5th level fighter would ask for the same rates as a 2nd level one.

[Psyren]

I'm showing 3 silver per day for trained hirelings (CRB 159); where are you getting the 2gp/day from?

And you're correct, hirelings tend to have very few levels and are thus ineffective in combat. PF borrowed these rules from 3.5 and slimmed them down - in 3.5 they have more specific jobs (like mercenary, clerk, scribe, porter and sage) and corresponding levels, typically no more than 1-3 levels in an NPC class. Pathfinder lumped a bunch of these jobs into simpler categories of Trained (3 sp/day) vs. Untrained (1 sp/day) as it took up less space on rules that few people would bother needing a lot of nuance for anyway, and that would quickly become obsolete once PCs pass level 6 or so.

[VoidsHeiress]

The 2 was purely from memory, the fact that it said gp instead of sp was an error on my part. Wrong regardless, I have looked on other lists before might have leaked from there; Regardless to be exact I'm looking for numbers for hiring NPC's with class levels.

[Psyren]

The 2 was purely from memory, the fact that it said gp instead of sp was an error on my part. Wrong regardless, I have looked on other lists before might have leaked from there; Regardless to be exact I'm looking for numbers for hiring NPC's with class levels.

The way to get NPCs with more class levels is cohorts, i.e. the Leadership feat. Hirelings won't help you in a fight past level 5 or so, and they won't help you with anything else not long after that either.

Your GM can of course brew up some kind of elite mercenary company for you to contract with if you're looking for more effective backup, but there aren't really pricing guidelines for such a thing. Ultimate Campaign has Contact rules where you can get a more skilled help such as assassination or bodyguard services but beyond guidelines around how much such an individual has to trust you before they do something dangerous or illegal, the pricing is more or less up to the GM.

[VoidsHeiress]

The way to get NPCs with more class levels is cohorts, i.e. the Leadership feat. Hirelings won't help you in a fight past level 5 or so, and they won't help you with anything else not long after that either.

Your GM can of course brew up some kind of elite mercenary company for you to contract with if you're looking for more effective backup, but there aren't really pricing guidelines for such a thing. Ultimate Campaign has Contact rules where you can get a more skilled help such as assassination or bodyguard services but beyond guidelines around how much such an individual has to trust you before they do something dangerous or illegal, the pricing is more or less up to the GM.

Hm, yeah, contacts aren't really useful if you just need someone with a shield and sword between you for a little bit without much previous involvement.

the problem is the GM is me, and I haven't really fully grasped the concept of monetary value yet beyond a day of labor so I don't fully know how much you would have to pay to field a small group of people to do fight for you for a day, the previous mistaken price of 2gp could maybe be a start?

[Gallowglass]

Regardless of the lack of rules, to try and answer your actual request for advice:

If they are hiring "adventurers" of equal or greater level than them, then those adventurers are savvy and competent and experienced with the rules of adventuring. They should ask for a "share" of the final haul of the adventure, basically asking for a full share as if they were PCs. So if there are 4 PCs and they hire 2 NPCS, then the loot gets split 6 ways.

If the PCs are smarter or more charasmatic or the players better negotiators, perhaps they can get PCs of the same level of them or a couple levels lower to sign on for 1/2 shares or 1/4 shares.

That's probably where I would start with it.

Now if the PCs insist on hiring someone for a base daily rate and they want people with class levels, I would set that rate extraordinarily high. High enough to gouge into the expected wealth they are getting out of the adventure. Because why would someone with a class level work for less when they could just be adventuring instead. So take a look at the expected WBL they should be gaining from the level they are to the level they are going to be going for and figure out how many days you expect this adventure to cover and set a rate that eats up 10-20% of that WBL.


For example. If the PCs are 4th level, going for 5th level, The WBL says they should get around 4,500 gp of treasure.
So you want the NPC to gouge them for about 450 gp each NPC they want to hire. So if you expect the adventure to take 10 days then the NPC asks for 45 gp a day. If you expect the adventure to take 2 days then the NPC asks for an outstanding 225 gp a day.

Actually now that I think about that, you should probably take that x the number of PCs. It will seem like a very high cost, but it is ultimately less than giving the NPC a full share of the loot.

One thing for them to think about though. Giving the NPC a share or a half share of the loot makes the NPC more engaged in the process. After all, they benefit from success. If you are just paying them a flat rate, then they get paid no matter if you find that secret loot chest or not. In fact, if you don't find that secret loot chest, then they could just come back later and get it themselves.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

So the RAW answer is that various war and logistics based books have more exaustive price lists for mercenary/soldier wages these include Stronghold Builders guide, The Arms and Equipment Guide, and Heroes of Battle. Sorry I don't have PF specific sources.

There is however a much larger issue here which is touched on in all of these sources. These wages are for steady jobs not crazy adventurer hyginks. You will usually find suggestions of multiplying these prices several times for dangerous jobs like being a guard in a frontier town or keep or traveling overland with adventurers and guarding their camp and animals while they sleep or enter dungeons.

When it comes to the things most adventurers are looking for; come into this dungeon with is or March to this place a week away and then fight the black legion and that's the whole job, you aren't looking for mercenaries anymore.

At this point you're essentially hiring fellow adventurers and the negotiations and wages should reflect that. A classic level 3 squad of warrior, scout, arcane caster and divine caster? They want 200gp each, 200gp at completion, and plunder rights, basically what 3rd level party could expect to be offered to clear out a dungeon. They also want to be treated like individuals and roleplay the negotiations. The practical veteran fighter wants to know more about the opposing forces and your plans for various contingencies, the sly rogue has an eye for choice loot and may make a play for something way over his wbl, the cleric wants to make sure the mission fits the portfolio of their god, and the wizard is cozying up to your wizard to try and get some private time with their spellbook. Obviously these are the broadest of stereotypes, but this at least shows the minimum level of individuation. There will be less "classic party" adventurers of course and the personalities of low level minions of a strong captain could be largely ignored as dealing with their concerns is their captain's job rather than yours, but this makes fleshing out the captain even more important.

[VoidsHeiress]

Good things to think about, Hadn't thought of basing the cost on their expected wealth, and its probably the way I'm going to go about it, maybe mercenary costs could be based on the would be expected wealth of the merc instead?

[Gallowglass]

That would be fine.

Just remember in the game that these are hired goons who have no reason to fight to the death for this paycheck. If they drop to half hitpoints, they should start looking for a way to run for it. And they should fight smart, meaning, letting the PCs bear the brunt of the assault by choosing to act later in the initiative order and moving to flank with the PCs once the enemy has engaged the PC as its primary target. They have no reason to sacrifice their lives for this paycheck.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'm chipping into the "base it on the mercenaries' expected income" camp. If the mercenaries are at a level where they could take a week and clean out a dungeon for 100 gold each, than for one week of joining the party in this higher level dungeon they want roughly 100 gold. The dungeon is more dangerous, but they're playing backup to the higher level PC's, so it roughly balances out.

And of course they get part of the XP as well. You get XP for the work you do, not for what others do.

[Efrate]

There are a bunch of rules for hirelings on d20pfsrd, not sure where there from. Suicidal orders ie adventuring, is 3pp per day x level of hirelings squared.

It also requires a suitably high diplomacy check to find them, with pc classes called out explicitly as hireable for a higher dc, and level of hirelings based on spellcasting services in town.

A level 5 wizard for example would require 75pp/750gp a day to adventure. That seems fine. That is with no take of treasure, and paid in advance.