So Magic Marts are strictly banned - what to do with heaps of useless +1 items?

[Quertus]

*And the default for 3.5 DnD is that there is sufficient demand to sell just about anything for Xgp, or buy it for 2Xgp, where X is given cost of materials to create the particular magic item. Actually it's phrased in the other direction, but this is the reading if you want it to look logical. So they're clearly in enough demand that there's always a buyer willing to to buy at-cost, and there are enough people willing to craft or sell their owned items that you only have to pay twice the materials cost to get one (in real life many things are sold for more than twice the material or even material+labor cost).

The obvious primary item sellers, the crafters, still have reason to buy at-cost when the opportunity arises, because it saves them time and xp. DnD's buy full and sell at 1/2 are not realistic rates, but they're simple, and most importantly they line up with the crafting system to allow players to sell an item in order to craft one of equal power more suited to their needs.

Sort of? That works for PF math, but in 3e, the "cost" of an item is 70% of its retail price: 50% (components) + 20% (XP / XP components).

They would say "witchcraft" then form a mob and try to kill you regardless of how many of them you kill and even the last kid equipped with knife would still try to rush at you for revenge.

I chuckled imagining a world in which desperate adventurers cast Mordenkainen's Disjunction on their gear to afford a night at the inn without fear of reprisal from superstitious villagers.

...man, what a ****ing power move. Imagine raising an army, and then dropping 5 million gp on arming said army with magic weapons to try and ensure that the hated enemy party died. Five days later, they Message you informing you of the army's defeat, and also informing you that they've entered the "door-to-door magic weapon salesman" business and wanna know how many +1 shortswords and longbows they can put you down for.

I totally want to play with that party

[Tiktakkat]

Paying for training from AD&D was not "buying" xp.
You got xp for killing monsters, and, depending on which particular way you read the rules and the DM felt, for getting gp and magic items.
When you had enough xp, you had to pay for "training" for your next level of class abilities. This of course required spending some of the gp you had just acquired.
Due to the quirks of individual class xp progressions, and the "role-play limits as balance" of "training" requiring longer times if you had not acted according to your class and alignment (the chaotic neutral thief boldly leaping into combat and not stealing from the party, the lawful good fight skulking in the back and demanding extra treasure, the neutral wizard always taking sides and not greedily snatching up every scroll and wand, and so forth), it often required adventuring for more xp and gp than required to advance by your class chart in order to pay for training.
Yes, it worked as poorly as it sounds except for the most obsessive of RAW groups.

As for magic item economics, just don't.
D&D economics has never been anything but a vague nod to keeping score by how much gp you collect. It is not a functional system, and appealing to it as RAW is nice, but thoroughly unsatisfying, and not much more convincing.
If there are so many +1 swords, armor, shields, cloaks of resistance, rings of protection, and amulets of natural armor as treasure because the PCs keep meeting NPCs with such loot, then replacing gp with said +1 items as "currency" becomes functional. Yes, that chicken costs two rings of protection +1. Why? Because they are more common than copper pieces.

Regarding "restricting" all those items by some "bonding" mechanism or what not - drow weapons.
Yeah, just make them out of the equivalent of unobtanium that requires exposure to handwavium radiation every month or they lost their powers, while exposure to ludicrous speeds (most commonly encountered when teleporting or being placed into or taken out of extradimensional spaces) makes them go to plaid and disintegrate. And there go all those surplus items, crumbling to dust and keeping the "rare" unique item intended for PC use functional.
Or, "bonding" from the other end as it were. Any item not worn or used by a PC for 30 days loses its magic permanently. And since items need to be worn or used for 1 day before they become "active", there is no cycling through every item to keep them "active".

[Rynjin]

Haven't been on the boards much last couple of days, I'll skim through this.

Firstly, I'm not sure a 2nd lvl character is a good representation of the "average person", given the guidelines we have on creating populations in the DMG.

I think it properly represents someone in a position to be making money. I read "farmer" as "owns a small farm", and similar would expect any other level 2 peasant to be a small business owner of some sort, which I think well represents the average person at least when it comes to 'townies'. Not that it matters a ton; a single level difference is only a -1 to the check in any case.

(Incidentally, I'm unsure how you arrived at the total you did; 9 isn't half of 19 and there's nothing in the Profession description saying you round down the ["half your check result", but also even if you were making 9 gp per week, 9-2.1=6.9, so I'm not sure where you got 7.9 from. Speaking "what the hell's wrong with your math", 7.9 gp per iteration and 254 iterations would make 2000 gp, which is enough to afford enchantment but not the required masterwork or the base cost of the weapon, and at this level of play, those are relevant costs because we're talking about at least another 38 iterations. Oh and the reason I'm using "iterations" instead of "days" or "weeks" like you did is because you apparently forgot that it's 7.9 gp per week, not per day. Assuming you make 7.9 gp per week (which even your build doesn't, and the average person isn't going to have that build, and the average person is going to have other expenses)...but assuming you make 7.9 gp profit-per-week, buying a 2305 gp +1 dagger is going to take 2042 days, or 291 weeks, or 5.6 years.

Long and short of it is I brainfarted on multiple things at once; I conflated the sp per day that untrained laborers get as how it worked for everyone else (a daily check), erred on the side of caution as far as rounding (since in D&D you typically round down), and somehow added .3 7 times and forgot the number 2 existed. Don't post after midnight kiddos.

Assuming you don't have to pay for lodging (reasonable, I feel; commoners probably live with their family in a family home? but you don't share a food budget, just lodging, so they don't eat into your profits) and assuming you have no regular expenses besides food (...doubtful, but for the moment let's pretend), that's a profit of 4.9 gp/week. That guy, instead of taking the 5.5 years your more optimized lvl 2 build is taking, is going to be theoretically capable of affording that +1 dagger after 3292 days, or 470 weeks, or 9 years. Before we go further, this seems like a good place to stop and ruminate on the mindset necessary to just have a steadily-growing pile of gold pieces in your commoner house for 9 years, such that at some point in your life you could even contemplate buying a +1 dagger.

This is assuming you're only providing for yourself. If you're more a man raising a family, you've maybe got a wife and three kids to feed. Even assuming the wife is working just as well as you are, 5 people eating increases food expenses enough that your household's profit has shrunken to 3.5 gp/week.

This is assuming you don't have to pay for maintenance of the house, or any tools involved with your profession, or just...replacing clothes now and then. These expenses probably aren't too significant overall, even though vermin threats and pillagers are probably a more common threat in D&D-land than IRL, but let's assume this all amounts to just like...1 sp/week in repair materials (it's probably more like 1 gp every few months or so, but that amounts to the same thing on a long timeframe). Now we're down to 3.4 gp/week profit.

This is assuming you don't have to pay taxes. If you do, that's moving a portion of your profits from commoners to aristocrats across the board. What proportion is fair? DMG suggests one-fifth of your income pre-expenses, so 2.8 gp? Putting weekly profit 0.6 gp per week, and putting "time to afford +1 dagger" at 26891 days, or 3841 weeks, or 73.87 years. That is a lifetime of effort for most races if they're dealing with taxes, maintenance, self-defense, and feeding a family. A lifetime of effort, for a +1 dagger.

But let's be honest here: even if you don't have to provide for a family and you don't get raided and don't have maintenance costs...if you only have to worry about your personal food budget and taxes, that's 5.1 gp/week, and it takes about 3163 days/452 weeks/8.7 years. Pretending they're gonna have that money sitting around waiting to be turned into magic items, as opposed to spending it on (for example) masterwork tools, a nicer house, commoner-level gifts for friends, maybe some basic armor/weapons to defend yourself, maybe masterwork armor/weapons if you're particularly extravagant, is absurd. Life's just...more complicated than that.

Don't forget that buying masterwork tools and having kids actually increases your profits considerably, unlike in real life for the latter. You put your kids and wife to work on the homestead and that's 4 whole Aid Another checks to your Profession. That's another 4 gp per week; the Masterwork tools add an extra 1 gp per week, and so on.

But all that's really getting lost in the weeds. Yes, it's fairly unlikely, but it is not typically going to take "a lifetime" for the peasant to get a +1 sword. It takes an unreasonable number of years if we assume 9, but it's doable. And the point I was making is it's even MORE doable for people who are above the average, and not even the rich aristocracy or some high grade merchant.

With your next bit though we're getting past the point where I can really comment; I don't really play 3.5 (I play Pathfinder) and I've never particularly cared about the Settlement rules in any major capacity, so I've never bothered to learn them; the only time they've ever been relevant for a game I've run is when my players were selling loot in a Skulls and Shackles game and I needed to know which ports could actually afford to buy what they were selling. I'm just going off of what NPCs I can quickly find on the d20SRD website, which says a farmer is a level 2 character. According to you that is inconsistent with Settlement rules, but what that tells me is that if you go to any town on the planet, random farmer man is going to be a Commoner 1/Expert 1, so a level 2 character is the baseline I chose as "average".

[Fizban]

@Fizban:Perhaps the culture doesn't have that "new = better" mentality that modern folks often do? If they didn't, and magic items stick around basically forever, then new crafters would have to cut prices down to match the second-hand store.

I could see it for "ancient relics of the fallen empire," but it's just too easy to have in-character justifications. Could be stolen, damaged, cursed, and simply the fact of being previously owned means certain (extremely specific) magical tracking could have someone looking for you instead of the previous owner. And "normal" people are much more likely to buy into superstitious notions than people with actual spells. The fact that the reseller is selling at the same price as the original seller means there must be massive demand.

Also keep in mind: Non-masterwork weapons are cheap. Your basic Longsword is only 15 gp (and costs 5 gp in materials). That's two-weeks' pay for a trained professional (Expert-1 with 4 points in Profession(Scribe) and a masterwork quill has a +6 modifier; taking ten, earns 8 gp/week).

Most of my gripe on weapon prices is the variance in all the weapons: a scimitar is 33% more expensive than a longword, which is 7.5x the price of a dagger, but a falcion is 100% more expensive than a greatsword, and all the other little variations. Hafted weapons should be a bit cheaper, sure, a point is easier than a blade and blunt is easier than either (depending on how fancy the mace is), but I highly doubt they actually found a medieval guild charter with accepted weapon prices (some research unquestionably, but if anything they're more likely based on the starting wealth values for different classes). Either way, it shouldn't take a skilled professional two weeks to buy what an equally skilled professional can make in a day (ignoring 3.5 mundane crafting times because they're super bogus). Checked my bookmarks for a video on it, here scholagladiatoria mentioned the cheapest sword they've found record of at 1 pence (with enough others that he's clearly confident anything form 1-5 pence is easy), compared to an archer's daily pay of 3 pence, the lowest paid soldier in the medieval English army. In DnD, the lowest paid mercenary is 2sp per day*. In another video it comes up that the cost of a pile of crossbows was way less in comparison to the bushels of bolts than DnD's numbers.

The core books don't support an actual economy, because that would be madness. I don't have a problem with the fiat standard price and standard 1/2 sale price (it works, it's good), but it's just not possible to justify it as a result of logical constructs (aside from a similar in-world fiat system based on a complete monopoly or divinely enforced mandate). Even if you assume almost no one crafts magic items so there's both stable supply and stable high demand (vs low population growth), mundane items don't have that fig leaf.

*Of course, back then soldiering was generally a position you took up because it had decent pay followed by shares of loot, while in DnD it's terrible pay compared to even an untrained craft check- this highlights the fact that you shouldn't be able to just roll the check without a proper business presence, and that all "business" mechanics are thus bogus because the original craft/profession check was already for a functioning business. Laboring or mercenary work at least provide some income when you can't even roll an untrained check due to not having a foot in, and mercenary beats labor. And mercenaries can't mercenary if a sword costs nearly a month's pay. Which is why I'm glad I've noticed the sort of hack about starting gear being a total original value of what were bought as secondhand/etc items.

Sort of? That works for PF math, but in 3e, the "cost" of an item is 70% of its retail price: 50% (components) + 20% (XP / XP components).

Not really. 5gp/1xp is for spells with xp costs, not for normal crafting. NPCs have however much spare xp the DM says they do, and will presumably charge full price for items, but there's never any mention of an NPC convinced to craft "at cost" charging for the xp, I've only ever seen that on forums. But I have seen examples of NPCs made friendly that will craft for just the material cost, no mention of paying for xp.

[Jay R]

One member of the party should have an Ancestral Relic, which will absorb all the lesser items the party picks up, turning them into a single item that the character values.

[weckar]

I notice that in nearly 100 replies, the OP has yet to respond...

[Fizban]

I notice that in nearly 100 replies, the OP has yet to respond...

John_Dahl usually lets the thread run for a good while before "coming back," but it doesn't help that we don't really have any revolutionary advice. It's a simple problem with simple but fairly non-negotiable solutions.

[Jay R]

I notice that in nearly 100 replies, the OP has yet to respond...

No problem. We are advising him. He needs to read, not respond.

[Lorddenorstrus]

No problem. We are advising him. He needs to read, not respond.

I think the advise got adequately summed awhile ago. The problem is of his own origination he's created excess of magical items in a world that by his own admission they shouldn't exist in as their is "no market".

[Jay R]

I think the advise got adequately summed awhile ago. The problem is of his own origination he's created excess of magical items in a world that by his own admission they shouldn't exist in as their is "no market".

There are any number of ways that this could happen, starting with having more magic items 1,000 years ago, that are only now being discovered. Or a wizard might have made a few hundred for her own army 200 years ago.

The only real problem is that they are concentrated in the hands of too few people.

If there aren't a lot of them in the world, and the PCs have too many, and there is no market, then they make wonderful gifts to Kings, Queens, great Lord and Ladies, and anybody else who employs guards and whose good will the PCs could use.

[Jon_Dahl]

I'm sorry that I haven't responded. Like Fizban said, I usually wait for the discussion to reach a certain point before I answer. However, this time I felt that some people were too aggressive towards me, and if you don't believe me, just look at the amount of scrubbing that has happened in this thread. Please, just look at it. I am not here to fight!

From the information that I have gathered from this thread, I will do the following:
- The PCs do not have a cleric. If they join a church that will heal them (restoration etc.), they will have to pay with magic items and perhaps with gold too.
- The PCs belong to an Adventurers' Guild. The guild will offer a substantial award for the adventuring group that regularly sponsors a group of beginners with magic items. This way they will have to equip a group of bare-naked 1st-level adventurers, but they will be rewarded really well if they do that.
- Planar Allies and similar called creatures will accept magic items.
- Most importantly, lower level magic items can be melted to produce greater magic items. It doesn't have to make sense. You can melt a greatsword +1 to produce a ring of protection +2. So what?

If I have overlooked some advice, please tell me.

[Calthropstu]

I'm sorry that I haven't responded. Like Fizban said, I usually wait for the discussion to reach a certain point before I answer. However, this time I felt that some people were too aggressive towards me, and if you don't believe me, just look at the amount of scrubbing that has happened in this thread. Please, just look at it. I am not here to fight!

From the information that I have gathered from this thread, I will do the following:
- The PCs do not have a cleric. If they join a church that will heal them (restoration etc.), they will have to pay with magic items and perhaps with gold too.
- The PCs belong to an Adventurers' Guild. The guild will offer a substantial award for the adventuring group that regularly sponsors a group of beginners with magic items. This way they will have to equip a group of bare-naked 1st-level adventurers, but they will be rewarded really well if they do that.
- Planar Allies and similar called creatures will accept magic items.
- Most importantly, lower level magic items can be melted to produce greater magic items. It doesn't have to make sense. You can melt a greatsword +1 to produce a ring of protection +2. So what?

If I have overlooked some advice, please tell me.

This seems reasonable, though, in the spirit of dnd I think dice should be rolled to determine what is actually gotten. Even create a new feat to allow a "roll 2 pick one" scenario. The enchantments are based off the final item fashioned which they can pick. This way it's not just replacing "magic mart" with "essentially magic mart"

[Quertus]

I keep forgetting to say that "no magic item Walmart" harkens back to the days of 2e, best RPG of all time. Just - and maybe it's just my bad memory - it never seemed like 2e had quite such an overabundance of +1 gear.

I'm sorry that I haven't responded. Like Fizban said, I usually wait for the discussion to reach a certain point before I answer. However, this time I felt that some people were too aggressive towards me, and if you don't believe me, just look at the amount of scrubbing that has happened in this thread. Please, just look at it. I am not here to fight!

3 posts in 3 pages? Not the craziest I've seen, by a large margin.

From the information that I have gathered from this thread, I will do the following:
- The PCs do not have a cleric. If they join a church that will heal them (restoration etc.), they will have to pay with magic items and perhaps with gold too.
- The PCs belong to an Adventurers' Guild. The guild will offer a substantial award for the adventuring group that regularly sponsors a group of beginners with magic items. This way they will have to equip a group of bare-naked 1st-level adventurers, but they will be rewarded really well if they do that.
- Planar Allies and similar called creatures will accept magic items.
- Most importantly, lower level magic items can be melted to produce greater magic items. It doesn't have to make sense. You can melt a greatsword +1 to produce a ring of protection +2. So what?

If I have overlooked some advice, please tell me.

So, is this the feel that you were going for? Does this meet your intentions in saying "no magic item Wal-Mart"?

[Caelestion]

If I have overlooked some advice, please tell me.

Those still seem like trying to treat the symptoms, rather than the disease. Why not simply hand-wave away the excessive amounts of magic items? Grant NPCs the necessary bonuses with which to provide a threat and curate which magical items get passed onto your PCs.

[Bohandas]

In my campaign, buying and selling magical items is banned. I have simply decided not to trivialize magical items by making them commodities, and my players accept that. We have a consensus on the matter.

It occurs to me that there's a possible middle ground here. You could use the old trope of the spooky shop that mysteriouslu appears one night and is gone just as mysteriously the next day, and have one pop up about once per level or once per adventure.

[Tiktakkat]

From the information that I have gathered from this thread, I will do the following:
- The PCs do not have a cleric. If they join a church that will heal them (restoration etc.), they will have to pay with magic items and perhaps with gold too.

I had forgotten that "option".
Back in my last AD&D campaign we had a cleric in the party, and the other PCs "foolishly" made him responsible for keeping track of equipment. "Naturally" he applied a tithe to his church to reflect his services without mentioning it to anybody. There was outrage when it was discovered until it was pointed out all the preferences they got from the church for higher level healing and magic item support.
Without a dedicated PC cleric, and without requiring membership, having a church charge in magic items for healing is a great way to bypass the standard "economy".

- The PCs belong to an Adventurers' Guild. The guild will offer a substantial award for the adventuring group that regularly sponsors a group of beginners with magic items. This way they will have to equip a group of bare-naked 1st-level adventurers, but they will be rewarded really well if they do that.

I usually put guild dues in the category of taxes, but this ties it in with guild prestige and potential rewards, an excellent combination.

- Planar Allies and similar called creatures will accept magic items.

I recall notes on planar allies from some of the articles in Dragon Magazine that indicate preferences, including for magic items. This fits in neatly with that, as well as taking pressure off the need to find another hoard of gold to try and pay the fee. Another good option.

- Most importantly, lower level magic items can be melted to produce greater magic items. It doesn't have to make sense. You can melt a greatsword +1 to produce a ring of protection +2. So what?

I think 99% of perceived "problems" with anything in D&D can be resolved with "It doesn't have to make sense. . . . So what?"
The only thing I would suggest with that is trying to keep the values roughly equivalent, perhaps with some nod to "merging" similar items. A weapon +1 is 2K (and change), a ring of protection +1 is 2K. Or, a cloak of protection +1 is 1K, a cloak of protection +2 is 4K, four cloaks of protection +1 can be "layered" and "merge" into a cloak of protection +2. A further 5 cloaks of protection +1 can be added to make a cloak of protection +3, and so on.

[Andry]

It doesn't have to be a Magic Mart. If you go to a big enough city there will be enough buyers to buy up magic items. Especially low level ones. Just make them use gather information checks to find buyers. That is how the system is set up. Problem solved.

[Rynjin]

This seems reasonable, though, in the spirit of dnd I think dice should be rolled to determine what is actually gotten. Even create a new feat to allow a "roll 2 pick one" scenario. The enchantments are based off the final item fashioned which they can pick. This way it's not just replacing "magic mart" with "essentially magic mart"

Ha. So you set it up like reforging an item in a game like Vermintide 2 or something of that nature.

I can dig it.

[mouser13]

Well epic handbook said they started using +1 dagger as currency because of weight and cost ratio. I would suggest the same. Though don't know what you do with money if you don't have magic items to buy. Suggest maybe funding your own town or country?

[Lorddenorstrus]

I'm sorry that I haven't responded. Like Fizban said, I usually wait for the discussion to reach a certain point before I answer. However, this time I felt that some people were too aggressive towards me, and if you don't believe me, just look at the amount of scrubbing that has happened in this thread. Please, just look at it. I am not here to fight!

From the information that I have gathered from this thread, I will do the following:
- The PCs do not have a cleric. If they join a church that will heal them (restoration etc.), they will have to pay with magic items and perhaps with gold too.
- The PCs belong to an Adventurers' Guild. The guild will offer a substantial award for the adventuring group that regularly sponsors a group of beginners with magic items. This way they will have to equip a group of bare-naked 1st-level adventurers, but they will be rewarded really well if they do that.
- Planar Allies and similar called creatures will accept magic items.
- Most importantly, lower level magic items can be melted to produce greater magic items. It doesn't have to make sense. You can melt a greatsword +1 to produce a ring of protection +2. So what?

If I have overlooked some advice, please tell me.

What's the difference between getting loot (+1s) and selling it, then using gold to buy X item you wanted. Your example is a +2 ring of protection.. And getting a +1 loot, and then using them to make the item I wanted in the first place. It sounds like magic mart with extra steps involved. And still goes back to my point of, a magic mart won't have every item the DM chooses what's there. <_<

[RNightstalker]

I'm sorry that I haven't responded. Like Fizban said, I usually wait for the discussion to reach a certain point before I answer. However, this time I felt that some people were too aggressive towards me, and if you don't believe me, just look at the amount of scrubbing that has happened in this thread. Please, just look at it. I am not here to fight!

From the information that I have gathered from this thread, I will do the following:
- The PCs do not have a cleric. If they join a church that will heal them (restoration etc.), they will have to pay with magic items and perhaps with gold too.
- The PCs belong to an Adventurers' Guild. The guild will offer a substantial award for the adventuring group that regularly sponsors a group of beginners with magic items. This way they will have to equip a group of bare-naked 1st-level adventurers, but they will be rewarded really well if they do that.
- Planar Allies and similar called creatures will accept magic items.
- Most importantly, lower level magic items can be melted to produce greater magic items. It doesn't have to make sense. You can melt a greatsword +1 to produce a ring of protection +2. So what?

If I have overlooked some advice, please tell me.

I think you've got some good ideas there to address your OP.

[StSword]

The thing about the buying of magic items in DnD is to take more sure that PCs have level appropriate abilities.

So if you don't want to bother with the selling and buying of magic items?

Don't use magic items, use another system to make sure that the PCs have the ability to handle appropriate threats.

It's not that radical, I've seen several ways for games to get around it.

Complete Gear, where "magic items" are temporary manifestations of the character's power. For example, a fighter can just grab a stick and meditate hour after hour until it becomes a +3 stick.

Practical Enchanter has talent rules, where instead of possessing magic items, characters are their own magic items, if Complete Gear's system is too much for you. Practical Enchanter is available for free by the by.

Pathfinder has the alternate rule system Automatic Bonus Progression, where you get magic item like bonuses just as a benefit from leveling up.

And the Third party book Alternate Path Ascetic Characters, by Little Red Goblin Games, has the Investiture system, a RWBY like system where characters can invest their aura into items to make them temporary magic items. So say someone can learn how to invest a fiery aura to make fire resistant armor, or make their sword a flaming sword.

[Bartmanhomer]

The thing about the buying of magic items in DnD is to take more sure that PCs have level appropriate abilities.

So if you don't want to bother with the selling and buying of magic items?

Don't use magic items, use another system to make sure that the PCs have the ability to handle appropriate threats.

It's not that radical, I've seen several ways for games to get around it.

Complete Gear, where "magic items" are temporary manifestations of the character's power. For example, a fighter can just grab a stick and meditate hour after hour until it becomes a +3 stick.

Practical Enchanter has talent rules, where instead of possessing magic items, characters are their own magic items, if Complete Gear's system is too much for you. Practical Enchanter is available for free by the by.

Pathfinder has the alternate rule system Automatic Bonus Progression, where you get magic item like bonuses just as a benefit from leveling up.

And the Third party book Alternate Path Ascetic Characters, by Little Red Goblin Games, has the Investiture system, a RWBY like system where characters can invest their aura into items to make them temporary magic items. So say someone can learn how to invest a fiery aura to make fire resistant armor, or make their sword a flaming sword.

I agree with everything you said.

[Asmotherion]

Leadership Feat and lead an army?

[Eladrinblade]

If you have the ability craft magic items, you can use items of that type to fuel the creation of another item of that type, at the expense of the first item. If you meet the prerequisites of item creation for both items, you can use all of the material component and exp costs of the first item to help make the second item. If you dont meet the prerequisites for the first item, you only get (1d4+2)x10% of its materials/exp, and must supply the rest on your own if these are insufficient. If the salvaged item provides more materials/exp than is necessary for the 2nd item, the remainder can be used on another item as long as creation of that item begins immediately after the first is done. You cannot use an arcane item to make a divine item, and vice versa. Items salvaged in this manner lose their magic, but are not otherwise harmed. The process takes 20% longer than creating the 2nd item normally would, rounded down to the nearest day.