spell like abilities with greenbound summoning

[mouser13]

Just looking over greenbound summoning again. Was wondering can most of the animal even use the spell like abilities. Says they are cha based and most animals have 4-6 cha making 8-10 with summoning. Making impossible to cast them without additional bonus from some where.


Question is do spell like abilities require min requirement like spells. Description doesn't say one way or another(directly) but does say spell like are like spells and spells do require never removes the requirement. So I'm left with believe that they can't?

[Unavenger]

Minimum ability requirements are for real spellcasters, as the line which makes them require that ability is in their spells class feature. Warlocks, truenamers, and greenbound animals don't need any charisma to use their SLAs.

[Crake]

Some spell-like abilities do have a minimum requirement, but they will state so specifically. Gnomes are the typical example, ones with at least 10 cha get a few extra SLAs, but there's definitely others, like half fiend/celestial, requiring at least 8 wisdom (so it's not even always a cha requirement) to gain their racial SLAs.

But yeah, unless it specifies that they must have a minimum, they can use it regardless of their ability scores.

[mouser13]

Is their any ruling somewhere on this. All example above seem to be seem to be ones that spell out. Which nice but doesn't really reflect the whole per say making a bit of a grey area. Green bound says uses cha. The others don't say far I know don't have my books to confirm.



Doesn't get the abilities and has only 10 cha. So seems like the author removed them. But again don't have my books so have to look and see later.

[Crake]

Is their any ruling somewhere on this. All example above seem to be seem to be ones that spell out. Which nice but doesn't really reflect the whole per say making a bit of a grey area. Green bound says uses cha. The others don't say far I know don't have my books to confirm.


I didn't some more looking at the example creature from [REDACTED]

Doesn't get the abilities and has only 10 cha. So seems like the author removed them. But again don't have my books so have to look and see later.

It's spelled out in the template. The template says the creature gets the SLAs, it mentions no qualifying requirements, thus the creature gets the SLAs.

As a note, the link you posted (which is against forum rules so I suggest you take it down) it does say "Spell-like abilities" in the special attack section. In the book, the troll also spells Spell-like abilities, and then later tells you what SLAs it gets under the actual greenbound creature rules.

[ixrisor]

In other words, there is no general rule that states you need a minimum stat to cast a spell. When it says “X ability is charisma-based”, it means that the DC for the ability is based on charisma, not that a minimum charisma is required to use it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spell-Like Abilities
"For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice."

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Spell-Like Abilities
"For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice."

Huh. I'll have to remember that the next time people lambast the idea that a half-HD simulacrum genie can use the original's three wishes SLA.

[Crake]

Huh. I'll have to remember that the next time people lambast the idea that a half-HD simulacrum can use the original's three wishes SLA.

Typically that claim comes with the notion that, if you look at the HD as class levels, or a savage progression, having half the number of HD means being further back in the progression, which would mean less abilities.

As an aside, efreeti already invoke this rule by default, because their CL is 12 for their wishes.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Typically that claim comes with the notion that, if you look at the HD as class levels, or a savage progression, having half the number of HD means being further back in the progression, which would mean less abilities.

"Show me an official savage progression and I'll believe you. Otherwise, it doesn't exist, so it's a houserule and you can't prove anything."

[Crake]

"Show me an official savage progression and I'll believe you. Otherwise, it doesn't exist, so it's a houserule and you can't prove anything."

There doesn't need to be an official savage progression for that to work, since the DM can homebrew savage progressions.

That said, savage species page 164: Efreeti (Genie) savage progression.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Google failed me.

There doesn't need to be an official savage progression for that to work, since the DM can homebrew savage progressions.

That said, savage species page 164: Efreeti (Genie) savage progression.

Yet another way to abuse thought bottles, I guess.