Mystic Muse's Magnificent Masquerade Random Banter #225

[Anonymouswizard]

So no villain until a third of the way through?

Eh, I'm still working stuff out, this might become a space opera (in which case replace 'magical ritual' with 'unearthed precursor artefact'), but the short answer is no main villain until half of the way through. There's a lot of setup that had to be done before the violation can fall to evil, they're more of a rival on the early stages.

[LaZodiac]

Eh, I'm still working stuff out, this might become a space opera (in which case replace 'magical ritual' with 'unearthed precursor artefact'), but the short answer is no main villain until half of the way through. There's a lot of setup that had to be done before the violation can fall to evil, they're more of a rival on the early stages.

A fun idea could be that the villain knows it's going to happen but can't prevent it, and thus is trying to prevent it post fact. Feels very fallen hero-y.

Also regarding the Daleks I am reminded of a joke; it says everything you need to know about Who that every episode with the Daleks treats it as a surprise, and that every episode with the Daleks is called X of the Daleks.

[Anonymouswizard]

A fun idea could be that the villain knows it's going to happen but can't prevent it, and thus is trying to prevent it post fact. Feels very fallen hero-y.

Maybe, allows me to get him out of the story during the actual event.

Decided to try the space opera route, it allows meet to play around with main characters and names a lot more, and I'm sure I can still find an excuse for the final battle to be a swordfight (consider both my hero and villain are going to be from noble families I'll be sure to insert a dueling tradition).

Also regarding the Daleks I am reminded of a joke; it says everything you need to know about Who that every episode with the Daleks treats it as a surprise, and that every episode with the Daleks is called X of the Daleks.

You know what annoyed me for the longest time about the revival? Every episode with the Dalek 'killed them off forever' for years, I think it was only in Matt Smith's run they were finally allowed to be the Dalek Empire without being killed off again.

[LaZodiac]

Maybe, allows me to get him out of the story during the actual event.

Decided to try the space opera route, it allows meet to play around with main characters and names a lot more, and I'm sure I can still find an excuse for the final battle to be a swordfight (consider both my hero and villain are going to be from noble families I'll be sure to insert a dueling tradition).



You know what annoyed me for the longest time about the revival? Every episode with the Dalek 'killed them off forever' for years, I think it was only in Matt Smith's run they were finally allowed to be the Dalek Empire without being killed off again.

You know I can think of the single best reason to have a sword fight in a space opera setting, beyond the fact that noble duels to the death are in vogue this season; guns risk blowing up the ship. It's a courtesy thing.

It's almost as if the writers really wanted the tiny little plunger armed boys to be dealt with so they could make new things and the higher ups wanted more ex-termin-ation.

[Fyraltari]

You know what annoyed me for the longest time about the revival? Every episode with the Dalek 'killed them off forever' for years, I think it was only in Matt Smith's run they were finally allowed to be the Dalek Empire without being killed off again.

Doomsday and Evolution of the Daleks show Daleks escaping. Though it did happen three times out of five appearances.

Then again "the Daleks are totes dead now, believe us" isn't a thing the revival invented.

[Anonymouswizard]

You know I can think of the single best reason to have a sword fight in a space opera setting, beyond the fact that noble duels to the death are in vogue this season; guns risk blowing up the ship. It's a courtesy thing.

Boarding parties are armed with shields and essentially what are incredibly short spears, it's a bit of a thematic thing.

It's almost as if the writers really wanted the tiny little plunger armed boys to be dealt with so they could make new things and the higher ups wanted more ex-termin-ation.

Considering that I remember the days when the Doctor Who monster budget ran low because they accidentally made his scarf too long... (okay, just joking, bit there was a time when the time was 'we can save money by just nicking costumes from the historical drama department, they have like fifty squillion.)

Although on that note, what was up with the static cybermen design? They're supposed to change slightly every story.

[TaiLiu]

Nothing yet. I'm still running on post-vacation energy reserves, so things have not yet gotten tough enough to move me to action. Also, our management situation looks like it's going to get a bit confusing for the upcoming pair of months, so that's an obstacle as well.

Oh, that sounds rough. I hope things got better for you over time.

I was to implement a framework for parallel computing in a programming language specialised towards parallel computing which was under development by one of the research teams at my university. The scientific question was pretty much whether this framework would outperform other techniques for achieving race-free parallel computing, and whether it would be easier to program in.

That sounds super cool!

...oh, yep, must be mine, then.

Curse you and your brightly-colored ninja crew! I can't keep up!

There's also this really good documentary.

Little known fact: Doc Brown actually got his doctorate in a philosophy department.

So to get into D&D teritory, this is actually textbook neutral evil.

I think we should grant Bartmanhomer a little more grace. I think he's just conveying his frustration with change, and not literally arguing that he should be allowed to irrevocably and nonconsentually alter the lives of everyone in the universe.

[Bartmanhomer]

' I'm the only one who matters, if I don't like it then it shouldn't happen!'

You know what, I'm just going to go over here and wonder if it's worth trying to flirt with the pretty trans? the girl at Saturday's Christmas do, or if I should save myself both the embarrassment and potential need to dodge a peeved partner. It's late and thinking in ethics is a lot of work.

Whatever...all I know my time machine will work even if the laws of time have some consequences.

[Mystic Muse]

Well it's good for them but not for me.


How's my action for disregarding change is evil?

Because you just outright admitted the change is good for them.

You want to erase changes that are good for them solely for the benefit of making yourself happy.

Nobody benefits from this but you, and in every other case, the change is to the person's detriment. You are saying the only person whose thoughts or feelings matter in this instance are your own.

[Bartmanhomer]

Because you just outright admitted the change is good for them.

You want to erase changes that are good for them solely for the benefit of making yourself happy.

Nobody benefits from this but you, and in every other case, the change is to the person's detriment. You are saying the only person whose thoughts or feelings matter in this instance are your own.

That doesn't make me evil. Neutral yes but not evil.

[DataNinja]

Curse you and your brightly-colored ninja crew! I can't keep up!

...wait, when'd I get a crew? This is concerning.

[Mith]

That doesn't make me evil. Neutral yes but not evil.

Do you think someone else acting only for their own interests, and causing harm to others as someone who is Neutral in their actions?

...wait, when'd I get a crew? This is concerning.

They are a ninja crew. That makes them hard to spot.

[LaZodiac]

Although on that note, what was up with the static cybermen design? They're supposed to change slightly every story.

From experience I can say; probably because nerds hate change.

That doesn't make me evil. Neutral yes but not evil.

"I don't want you to do a thing good for you, because it makes me sad, so I will prevent you from doing it" is explicitly evil.

[Bartmanhomer]

Do you think someone else acting only for their own interests and causing harm to others as someone who is Neutral in their actions?



They are a ninja crew. That makes them hard to spot.

Do you think that change is fair for them but unfair for me? To answer your question no it doesn't.

[Mith]

Do you think that change is fair for them but unfair for me? To answer your question no it doesn't.

My point is more "Do you think someone else, applying your scenario to you, is a Good thing?"

Your supervisor retiring for example. They are presumably at a point where they don't need to be working anymore, and can now go do things that they would rather do than work. Your plan would remove that choice from them.

Say you wanted to take time off, and your work told you you couldn't take that time off and forced you to work. Or anyone who forces you to do something you don't want to do because it's unpleasant if you go do what you wanted to do.

That is what you are wanting to do. Even if you were using a means that could not be traced back to you (such as using your hypothetical time machine), you would be forcing other people to do what you want, not what they chose.

You do not get to dictate how any functioning adult lives their life. You only have the right to your own time and experiences. Likewise, no one gets to dictate the same of you. The cases where you have someone in your care is the only time I can think of where this right is superseded, and there are hard, hard limits to that.

[Sermil]

"I don't want you to do a thing good for you, because it makes me sad, so I will prevent you from doing it" is explicitly evil.

Eh, depends on the relative size of the good-for-them and the bad-for-me. In utilitarianism, you are allowed to weigh benefits and pain to yourself just as much as benefits and pain to anyone else. If the benefit to you is bigger than the pain caused to someone else, it is morally permissible, even morally required.

Why, yes, I am watching season 2 of The Good Place. Why do you ask?

[Peelee]

Eh, depends on the relative size of the good-for-them and the bad-for-me. In utilitarianism, you are allowed to weigh benefits and pain to yourself just as much as benefits and pain to anyone else. If the benefit to you is bigger than the pain caused to someone else, it is morally permissible, even morally required.

Why, yes, I am watching season 2 of The Good Place. Why do you ask?

Spoiler: I feel like you would enjoy this.

Show

[factotum]

You know what annoyed me for the longest time about the revival? Every episode with the Dalek 'killed them off forever' for years, I think it was only in Matt Smith's run they were finally allowed to be the Dalek Empire without being killed off again.

What annoyed me was how rapidly they nerfed the Daleks. In the first revival episode of Dr. Who to include a Dalek, there was just one, and it was freakin' terrifying--upon seeing it, the Doctor said it could single-handedly kill all the two million people in the nearby city, and it wiped out a squad of soldiers with guns with ease. Then, as time wore on, we see entire groups of Daleks who are about as scary as a child's toy. I mean, it never quite got to the level of the original series, where Ace destroyed a Dalek with a baseball bat on one occasion, but it was still pretty rapid demotion.

[Thufir]

Also regarding the Daleks I am reminded of a joke; it says everything you need to know about Who that every episode with the Daleks treats it as a surprise, and that every episode with the Daleks is called X of the Daleks.

As much as that's pretty true (and I've complained about it before), that absolutely does not "say everything you need to know about Who."

You know what annoyed me for the longest time about the revival? Every episode with the Dalek 'killed them off forever' for years, I think it was only in Matt Smith's run they were finally allowed to be the Dalek Empire without being killed off again.

That was pretty annoying.

Doomsday and Evolution of the Daleks show Daleks escaping. Though it did happen three times out of five appearances.

Then again "the Daleks are totes dead now, believe us" isn't a thing the revival invented.

They had 4 Daleks and 1 Dalek escape, respectively. That doesn't really count as the Daleks surviving any more than the Doctor and the Master still being around counted as the Time Lords surviving.

Actually thinking about it, I don't know about anyone else, but personally I might find it less annoying if they did handle things more like the Classic series, where recurring enemies how had been previously killed off just reappeared without bothering to try and explain it. Repeatedly wiping them out wasn't as frustrating in itself as the fact it meant they had to explain every time why they weren't actually wiped out any more.

What annoyed me was how rapidly they nerfed the Daleks. In the first revival episode of Dr. Who to include a Dalek, there was just one, and it was freakin' terrifying--upon seeing it, the Doctor said it could single-handedly kill all the two million people in the nearby city, and it wiped out a squad of soldiers with guns with ease. Then, as time wore on, we see entire groups of Daleks who are about as scary as a child's toy. I mean, it never quite got to the level of the original series, where Ace destroyed a Dalek with a baseball bat on one occasion, but it was still pretty rapid demotion.

Strictly speaking they didn't really nerf them for the most part (a couple of times they explicitly said "These Daleks have been damaged and are not at full strength,"), they just stopped pitting them against contemporary human weaponry, to which they continue to be impervious.
The Daleks went through some pretty serious villain decay, but they didn't really do anything to change the established power level of a Dalek - it's more down to the way specific episodes were written.

[Anonymouswizard]

From experience I can say; probably because nerds hate change.

That's my point, then changing look on every story was a tradition, you can't just change that!

Seriously, the cybermen have been through so many revisions, from major changes to the minor ones which happened every storiy. It's like giving the Daleks the ability to climb stairs (something something seventh doctor).

[Fyraltari]

That was pretty annoying.
They had 4 Daleks and 1 Dalek escape, respectively. That doesn't really count as the Daleks surviving any more than the Doctor and the Master still being around counted as the Time Lords surviving.

Seeing as the Daleks reproduce by cloning, yeah it kinda does.

It's like giving the Daleks the ability to climb stairs (something something seventh doctor).

Something, something Sixth Doctor and horrendous special effects.

[Bartmanhomer]

My point is more "Do you think someone else, applying your scenario to you, is a Good Thing?"

Your supervisor retiring for example. They are presumably at a point where they don't need to be working anymore, and can now go do things that they would rather do than work. Your plan would remove that choice from them.

Say you wanted to take time off, and your work told you you couldn't take that time off and forced you to work. Or anyone who forces you to do something you don't want to do because it's unpleasant if you go does what you wanted to do.

That is what you are wanting to do. Even if you were using a means that could not be traced back to you (such as using your hypothetical time machine), you would be forcing other people to do what you want, not what they chose.

You do not get to dictate how any functioning adult lives their life. You only have the right to your own time and experiences. Likewise, no one gets to dictate the same as you. The cases where you have someone in your care is the only time I can think of where this right is superseded, and there are hard, hard limits to that.

You do have a point there.

[LaZodiac]

Eh, depends on the relative size of the good-for-them and the bad-for-me. In utilitarianism, you are allowed to weigh benefits and pain to yourself just as much as benefits and pain to anyone else. If the benefit to you is bigger than the pain caused to someone else, it is morally permissible, even morally required.

Why, yes, I am watching season 2 of The Good Place. Why do you ask?

This is a good point and I realized it after posting and never got around to amending it.

Obviously, if their good thing is DIRECTLY harming you in some way, that's bad, but if the only harm is "it makes my life different in a non negative way" then it's still kinda bad to want to prevent it. If someone is doing good for themselves and it's sending you into poverty and or making you have to work endlessly just to scrape by, that's obviously evil and should be prevented.

God, I was so caught up in politely scolding Bartmanhomer I forgot capitalists exist.

[Anonymouswizard]

God, I was so caught up in politely scolding Bartmanhomer I forgot capitalists exist.

I have spent the past sixteen hours or so very carefully trying to avoid reminding people of that fact, especially as it has IRL previously sent me on rants on non board safe topics.

Which reminds me, I need to get a box of London Clay for a prank only about four other people in the world are going to understand.

[Mith]

I have spent the past sixteen hours or so very carefully trying to avoid reminding people of that fact, especially as it has IRL previously sent me on rants on non board safe topics.

Which reminds me, I need to get a box of London Clay for a prank only about four other people in the world are going to understand.

So long as you are pranking ons of the other 4, it's perfect.

[LaZodiac]

In funner news, for the third day in a row I've generated enough static charge to turn off the office coffee maker with just a touch.

It hurts like **** but it's worth it to hold unlimited electrical power at the tip of my fingers.

[Peelee]

It hurts like **** but it's worth it to hold unlimited electrical power at the tip of my fingers.

...are you going to kill all the Jedi and rule the galaxy with an iron fist? Because if so, I would like a high-ranking administrative position, please.

[The Fury]

In funner news, for the third day in a row I've generated enough static charge to turn off the office coffee maker with just a touch.

It hurts like **** but it's worth it to hold unlimited electrical power at the tip of my fingers.

I too can turn off a coffee maker with a touch. As long as I touch the power button.

[Anonymouswizard]

So long as you are pranking ons of the other 4, it's perfect.

Unfortunately not, which is why there isn't a small package-sized hole in the local park.

In funner news, for the third day in a row I've generated enough static charge to turn off the office coffee maker with just a touch.

It hurts like **** but it's worth it to hold unlimited electrical power at the tip of my fingers.

We've discovered Zodi's quirk! It's at least better my my quirk of causing all plants in the same house to be drained of life energy.

[LaZodiac]

...are you going to kill all the Jedi and rule the galaxy with an iron fist? Because if so, I would like a high-ranking administrative position, please.

Please, I'm way more stylish than Sheev. I'm going to legitimately make the world a better place while also furthering my personal goals because I'm the good guy here.

(this is a deep cut that no one will understand for at least ten years, give or take how long it takes to write more book...)

I too can turn off a coffee maker with a touch. As long as I touch the power button.

Bah, analog ways of turning off stuff is so passe.

Unfortunately not, which is why there isn't a small package-sized hole in the local park.

We've discovered Zodi's quirk! It's at least better my my quirk of causing all plants in the same house to be drained of life energy.

Don't be silly AnonWizard, that's not a quirk. That's just your Minus

I should go to hell for referencing that series...