Seeking wisdom on the Druid

[ZorroGames]

One of the classes I have never played is the Druid. Was only a NPC when it first came out in the 1970s.

Barbarian, one currently.
Bard, never. Jon-Tom set the bar too high. Jk
Cleric started there when “the three books” came out, loved it.
Fighter, oh yeah. Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Human, even Hobbit... I mean Halfling once.
Monk, sure.
Paladin, well yeah.
Ranger, I want to be like Aragorn in the book when I grow up.
Sorcerer, not yet.
Warlock, as part of a MC.
Wizard, several times.

Druid, just need to better understand the “How,” part.

Looking for some guides that will help me get a grip on the class.

Links, please?

[airless_wing]

Hymer’s guide (located here ) is an absolutely fantastic resource.

In my experience, the Druid is the class with the most bookkeeping, but has phenomenal versatility and control. Theyre fairly SAD, really only needing Wisdom (everyone needs Dex and Con to some degree, and the druid is little exception).
Right from the start, druids have spells that can absolutely trivialize certain encounters with Entangle and Faerie Fire. Spike growth and Plant Growth are some of the best battlefield control spells, especially if you have good team communication.
They are heavily concentration based, so most of my experience with gameplay is spending the first turn to figure out what concentration spell is ideal for that situation. It requires a fair amount of technical thought, and varies based off of enemy placement, team attack styles, etc. So turn one should be used to gain knowledge and cast the best concentration spell for the job. After that, thorn whip, dodge, repositioning, or helping teamates is solid. The druid’s concentration spells are fantastic, so you’re still a help if you do nothing but dodge in order to keep your spells up and running.
Land druids in particular grt ridiculous spell versatility. At lvl 7 one can have 17-18 spells prepared, which covers a lot of ground. I’ve never felt like i’ve been involved in any of the three pillars of the game and not had several options as a land druid.

[Catullus64]

Make sure you have proficiency in Nature. People expect it of Druids, even if from a mechanical perspective it's no more important for Druids than any other class.

While Druids have great crowd-control, summoning potential, and survivability, I think the area where they really stand out above everyone else is non-combat utility.

Always prep Speak with Animals. Maybe it's just the games I run and play in, but it's probably the most consistently useful ritual spell short of Detect Magic. Depending on the leniency of your DM, it can make for a killer low-level combo with Animal Friendship.

Pass without Trace is also one of the most valuable and unique support tools in the Druid's arsenal, and basically erases the challenge of party-based stealth. Combine with stuff like Silence and inconspicuous Wild Shapes, and the Druid turns out to be an amazing scout.

The druid can also be a viable healer, if that's your kick, especially with one of the Xanathar's circles. The power of Druid healer is reduced a bit if your DM, like sensible DMs the world over, nerfs Healing Spirit.

[nickl_2000]

Personally I think that Druids are the master of the battle field. They have some many crowd control and battlefield modifying fields it’s amazing.

Other than that they are a Swiss Army knife. They have a spell out there for almost any situation, and although it’s not always the best tool it’s still good.

I took a Moon Druid to level 17 and the biggest challenge I found was direct damage. There weren’t enough cast spell to do damage spells. I ended many an adventuring day with spells left, due to so many concentration spells for a Druid.

Healing word is amazing, even if it’s nerfed (e played it as 1 heal per round instead of one per person per round). Given that reduction, it’s still a great spell. Also good berry can be amazing to heal out of combat, and if a good use of leftover spell slots.

[sambojin]

Druids are a very reliable class to play. Full spell lists, full caster, some powerful short-rest abilities by level 2, long duration spells, some good 1-2 level class dips for powergaming, wildshape.

Just remember that every druid gets some pretty good combat wildshapes at lvl2 and 4. This can save you from the pressure of running out of "real" spells, so you're always contributing, until you hit lvl5 and become a "proper full caster" (ie: have enough spell slots to cover 6 encounters a day). Elks, Velociraptors and Wolves are actually pretty good at lvl2. Warhorses, Jaculi, Crocodiles, Frilled Deathspitters (from Ixalan. Seriously, they're amazing) and Constrictor Snakes are likewise fine at lvl4.

Other than all the wildshape options, just remember the sheer freedom you have on how to approach encounters. You don't need to be a top-tier damage dealer. You can just keep restraining to give everyone advantage. Or faerie-fire or hold person someone (you'll still add plenty to total party damage by doing this). Or Spike Growth out mooks. Or stealth by it with PwT. Or let anyone be awesome at anything with Enhance ability. Or just call in 4x 1/2CR or 2x CR1 summons (there are no truly bad 1/2CR or CR1 summons). Or even pseudo-nova stuff, because you've always got extra spell slots compared to nearly any other class, because you take care of 1-2 encounters a day with just wildshape.

Here's some guide links:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?583036
(Moon Druid, but a good primer on combat wildshape too)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?584818
(All the other druids. There's also heaps of links to other druid guides in the guide, so use them)

I've kind of changed my opinion over the years on what's the "best" subclass. I'd probably rate them as Land(Grassland)/ Shepherd/ Moon/ anything else these days, simply because more spells and spell slots spells are that good, while even little wildshape is "good enough" to take away all your squishiness and to add versatility early on. Moon is still very nice though. I don't really min/max either summoning or healing (it gets annoying), but there's absolutely no doubt Shepherd is powerful, even just using its spirit auras to boost your party.

I tend to play Moon, but Grasslands is almost certainly better at mid/high level play until lvl20. Having CR1 forms until level 5 with Moon, and CR2 forms at lvl6-7, is very nice though, after that you're just a full caster with a bit of spell slot non-use (which is still very good).

As a side-note: getting 2 of your most powerful subclasses from the PHB can help in AL play, because you can then cherry pick a race from any of the side books.

[JumboWheat01]

One thing I'm particularly fond of for druids is how each of their specializations has a different focus with very little overlap. You can play a good few druids and each one can be done up differently.

Land are your general casters, with high spell flexability thanks to their extra spells, a bonus cantrip because druids only get four for some reason normally, and they borrow from the Wizard the ability to regain some spell slots on short rests to allow even more spell casting through the day. With their high number of spells thanks to their Land spells, you can take easier use of your Ritual Caster ability by preparing those kind of spells for when you need them.

Moon is your Wild Shape focused specialization, with a larger variety of shapeshifts open to them, including some elemental shapes down the line! Thanks to how shapeshifting works, Moon druids make fair Defenders if your party needs one, or you can even pop into a more Defender role as needed. Since you can concentrate while shapeshifted, you can still maintain some battlefield control while mauling things.

Dreams are your healing-focused casters, with some interesting out-of-combat utility to make your party's life a little easier as the day goes on by providing shelter while resting, a little bit of scrying, or even resetting the adventure back to your last Long Rest point if need be. You can even zip about with a Misty Step like ability, or send your allies around. Dwarf fighter to slow to get in the front line? Zip him ahead 30 feet and get him into position faster.

Shepard is your minionmancy and buffing focused druid. You have stronger summons than normal, and you have these nice totem buffs which not only help out your fellow party members but also your summons. This is all about the battle field control with a focus on quality quantity of units out in the field.

And the main overlap that all specializations have is another thing that druids are especially good at, Control. Outside of wizards, druids are Controllers of great report, with spells to hinder, restrain, and area denial. A good class for those who like some tactical manipulation of a fight.

[Nhym]

Here is my Shepherd Druid guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Shepherd Druids are highly underrated and have extreme versatility. A well played Shepherd Druid can handle pretty much any situation and the only thing they really can't do is be a burst caster.

[Xenken]

Aye, druids are dope. I'm making a guide specifically for new druids that should be up soon, but in the meantime I can confirm most of the rest of the thread.

Edit: It's currently up now, if you want to give it a look.

[HiveStriker]

One of the classes I have never played is the Druid. Was only a NPC when it first came out in the 1970s.

Barbarian, one currently.
Bard, never. Jon-Tom set the bar too high. Jk
Cleric started there when “the three books” came out, loved it.
Fighter, oh yeah. Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Human, even Hobbit... I mean Halfling once.
Monk, sure.
Paladin, well yeah.
Ranger, I want to be like Aragorn in the book when I grow up.
Sorcerer, not yet.
Warlock, as part of a MC.
Wizard, several times.

Druid, just need to better understand the “How,” part.

Looking for some guides that will help me get a grip on the class.

Links, please?

Hi!
No link per se, although I did provide some hints in other Druid-related posts.
In short... Druid is the absolute best 5th wheel.
Archetype:
- pick Moon if you like the roleplay and mechanical aspects of having a (much) larger choice of beasts,
- pick Land if you want to keep things as simple as possible so "just" extra spells and slots.
- pick Shepherd otherwise (the best overall thanks to versatile aura and summon bonuses).

Spells:
The ones you can't go wrong with are Healing Words, Faerie Fire, Goodberry, Healing Spirit, Enhance Ability, Pass Without Trace, Ice Knife (early), Moonbeam, Heat Metal (early), Call Lightning, Spike Growth, Plant Growth, Sleet Storm, Water Breathing, Conjure Animals, Wind Wall, Polymorph.
The only ones I'd keep whatever happens personally are Healing Words, Healing Spirit, Pass Without Trace, Spike Growth later replaced by Plant Growth, Conjure Animals, Sleet Storm and Polymorph. In addition to Water Breathing unless I'm sure we're gonna spend several days without seeing any decent pool of water, and Wind Wall unless I know for sure upcoming battles would be in enclosed environments making it too difficult to use (or in a chase).

Roles.
Primary role is battlefield controller. At low level, your primary ways to do it are Thorns Whip to move enemy, and spells that create difficult terrain like Earth Tremor or Spike Growth.
Use those levels to learn how to coordinate with your teammates. Druid is the best, but also potentially the worst, controller because its spells rely primarily on difficult terrain, which does not care about "friendly fire".

If you're unsure or not confident, favor small-area spells like Earth Tremor and Spike Growth.
If your DM agrees that when moving Moonbeam you can zigzag and turn at will, then it's your golden spell to keep and use as possible. Otherwise situational.

Heat Metal is the best single-target control spell you get, and the requirement is easy enough to fulfill in general (metal armor worn).

Once you get Conjure Animals, Plant Growth and Wind Wall, and enough slots to use them several times per day, the true fun begins.
Check beforehand with DM and group though, how they feel about Conjure Animals. If everyone feels it would be too much of a hassle to handle as written, suggest DM to use "mob rules" or conjure them "as helper tools" (like they act as mounts for others).

Secondary role is healer. You have many ways to do that.
- Distribute Goodberries to friends so they can spare a few HP or possibly put back an ally from 0 HP (DM-depedent that you can Use an Item to gulp down a berry, but never seen one refuse).
- Convince animals beforehand to drop Goodberries or drag/carry wounded closer to you (heavily DM-dependent and somewhat random, but can get good results sometimes).
- Keep mid-range for Healing Words: the most basic strategy.
- Use archetype features: if Moon, you could catch and carry a friend to a safer zone before getting human and heal him. If you're Shepherd, the Unicorn Aura is absolutely invaluable in providing extra healing. If Land, well, you got extra uses of Healing Words thanks to short rest.
- Use Healing Spirit: many people see it as solely a out-of-combat heal, but there are a few cases where it's a good tactical choice in-fight (usually if upcast at least as 4th level though): most evident ones are when you have one guy holding alone the front line (like in a corridor), or if you expect to need distant heal several times in the fight but cannot move enough yourself... Or simply you want to heal without exposing yourself so you Wild Shaped... Which brings the last point.

Don't understimage Wild Shape for fight even if you're not Moon.
Honestly, Moon is overrated as a "tank form" in the first place. Nevertheless, the opportunity to maintain concentration spells while Wild Shape allows many tricks that may last just one round, or several, or the whole fight!
Basically, use Wild Shape to...
- either find a place which makes it hard for people to hit you (clinging to ceilings in caves, up in trees in forest, burrowing back and forth in earth): it's not fool-proof (at least they could Ready to attack you if it's a matter of hide and seek, or attack at disadvantage if it's a distance problem) but can provide you some breathing room several rounds. And it synergizes well with all spells that simply require repeatable action, or possibly none at all: Heat Metal, Call Lightning, Moonbeam, Conjure Animals...
- deceive enemies into underestimating your party (of course it requires they don't know you can Wild Shape ^^).

Third role is "adventure enabler". There are some great spells you may envy from Wizard Sorcerer or Cleric, but you get enough essentials to really lift heavy weight.
- Enabler spells like Enhance Ability, Speak With Animals or Pass Without Trace help with ability checks.
- Druid also provides many ways to travel, from simple animal persuasion to Conjure spells (as mounts), Travel with Plants and Wind Walk.
- You calso get Locate rituals and some Commune spells to advance the plot.
- You have several ways to enable or at least facilitate safe places to rest, either directly (Druid Grove) or indirectly (Hallucinatory Terrain, Pass Without Trace, Water Breathing, Conjure Animals, Meld Into Stone).

Lacks:
only somewhat weak point is direct damage, unless you count things like Call Lightning over several rounds. "Nova damage" is definitely NOT something you can do except very particular situation with all star aligned (like you can Conjure bunch of creatures all around a meatbag and they all have good chance to hit AND they got high Initiative).
Not something to fret over, you can do everything else damn well after all... :)

[HappyDaze]

Honestly, Moon is overrated as a "tank form" in the first place.

Perhaps this is true at higher levels, but at Levels 2-4, Moon's Wild Shape options are very powerful.

[BeefGood]

Druid subclass situation annoys me. Moon Druid just seems far more powerful than the others.
What I think they should have done is promote the circle of the land options to subclasses. Every Druid subclass is a circle of the land option with distinct extra spells. Also distinct wild shape animals; those that are reasonable for that biome. Extend wild shape CR to 2 or 3 to get enough for every biome. That would be the entirety of the Druid class and subclasses. When it is time for unearthed arcana, do additional biomes like underwater, outer space, other planes, urban...
All other current Druid subclasses would go away, except for Moon Druid, which would be a new class, the Shapeshifter.
P.s. So happy Board is back!

[HiveStriker]

Perhaps this is true at higher levels, but at Levels 2-4, Moon's Wild Shape options are very powerful.

On the contrary. It's at the highest levels that Moon Druid can outshine the other archetypes, thanks to the Unlimited Wild Shape as bonus action + Wild Shape casting (which means you can seamlessly cast action spells just after wild shaping).

At low level it's basically trading AC for HP especially if you intend to use the form to attack (which means you go in frontline, which means you put yourself in much higher danger of getting downed, or at least losing concentration, compared to just standing in mid/backline).
Any Druid can sport 16/17 AC at level 2. Most CR 1 forms you can potentially know at level 2 have either 11 AC and 35-40 HP, or 13-14 AC and 25 HP. Only notable exception is Dire Wolf, but that's not necessarily a common creature depending on setting.
It also means you cannot cast any spells while in Wild Shape, so if something unlucky happens and a friend gets downed, if nobody else can take care of him, you'll have to shape back early (so waste either an action or a bonus action depending on which healing spell you'll cast, plus all HP left of the form).

So, yeah, it's a good tool, and Moon Druid definitely gets a better use of Wild Shape than other archetypes, but it's much more because you can choose between bonus action or action and because when used to flee danger you do get forms with more HP to soak up ranged attacks damage.
You could also say that Moon Druid has an edge because those improved forms allow him to act as a decentish martial for a few rounds when out of spell slots, And that's also true.
Thing is, other archetypes have other great things to do: Land has extra spells (some of them being much more impactful than a few beast weapon attacks) and slots (so less chance to run out), Shepherd has his aura that helps very significantly whatever kind you choose for that battle), and they have many resource-sparing spells to be effective in battle without needing to endanger themselves, as long as they don't lose concentration.

Druid subclass situation annoys me. Moon Druid just seems far more powerful than the others.
What I think they should have done is promote the circle of the land options to subclasses. Every Druid subclass is a circle of the land option with distinct extra spells. Also distinct wild shape animals; those that are reasonable for that biome. Extend wild shape CR to 2 or 3 to get enough for every biome. That would be the entirety of the Druid class and subclasses. When it is time for unearthed arcana, do additional biomes like underwater, outer space, other planes, urban...
All other current Druid subclasses would go away, except for Moon Druid, which would be a new class, the Shapeshifter.
P.s. So happy Board is back!

Actually Shepherd is by far the most "powerful" from level 2 to level 18 (as convoluted and hollow that word may be in a 100% theorycraft point of view: I'll just put the ground rule of a party having at least 4 members Druid included, and all different classes so high chance of mix martial and caster).
Two reasons behind.

1. Aura: being able to pick the kind of aura every fight makes a tremendous difference.
Bear is invaluable when you have melee pals because making easier to Shove enemies (unless, of course, they are Barbarians ^^) AND giving a hefty amount of THP (5+Druid level is basically Inspiring Leader, except no limit on number of targets affected, usable twice per short rest, as a bonus action. And obviously THP stick after aura leaves, so you can boost start of day like Inspiring Leader).
Unicorn basically transforms Healing Words (or even Cure Wounds!) into "automatic upcast Mass Healing Words". And with a 30 feet radius, bonus action movable aura, it's not hard to keep at minimum 2-3 allies inside at any time. And it doesn't use concentration so it's not even "early-breakable" (not even sure it would disappear if you get dropped, after all it "persists for 1mn", period).

2. Conjuration bonuses: extra HP are not much per se, but make a heavy difference when properly combined with aforementioned aura (especially Unicorn) and later the automatic HP regain is also making a very big difference in how long your creatures will last.

Moon Druid starts getting really interesting at level 8 (finally access to Large+ flying creatures) and 10 (Elemental forms are nasty), and it can certainly offer a more directly enjoyable (because *you* harm directly, not just supporting) and varied (because potentially so many forms)...
But as far as pure global efficiency goes, in any random party, you simply cannot beat a Shepherd Druid, at least one who knows what he's doing. :)
Unless you're a solo player that doesn't want to use conjurations in the first place because he wants to incarnate the "lone wolf", "self made man", "extra-ordinary guy" feeling. ^^

EDIT: your idea is interesting though, could be worth pursuing as a homebrew alternative Druid. :) I'll be happy to contribute if you're inclined to do so.


EDIT 2: stumbled upon a thread on reddit whose OP I completely agree with, seems imo a fine demonstration of how useful Wild Shape actually is (and thus why Moon Druid can be very powerful even though you are neither as tanky nor as damagy as many people say, because more forms means more chance to have a special ability adequate to situation compared to regular Druid ;))
I also agree with that OP in that much of the felt "problems" with Druid, in one way or other, is that people tend to pretend Moon shapes are comparable to a regular martial of same level, when it's just an expansion on one of the toolboxes Druid have.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Druid subclass situation annoys me. Moon Druid just seems far more powerful than the others.
What I think they should have done is promote the circle of the land options to subclasses. Every Druid subclass is a circle of the land option with distinct extra spells. Also distinct wild shape animals; those that are reasonable for that biome. Extend wild shape CR to 2 or 3 to get enough for every biome. That would be the entirety of the Druid class and subclasses. When it is time for unearthed arcana, do additional biomes like underwater, outer space, other planes, urban...
All other current Druid subclasses would go away, except for Moon Druid, which would be a new class, the Shapeshifter.
P.s. So happy Board is back!

Hmm. I dunno. Our Moon Druid was a crazy good tank in Curse of Strahd, true, but now that my Shepherd Druid is past level 4 in our new campaign I am kicking butt. What would happen to Shepherd, Dreams, etc. in your plan above? Seems like Druids would become much less varied.

EDIT: Shadowmonked!