afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII

[Inevitability]

You say “fun,” I say “most insipid garbage that should never have been published”... on second thought, yes, let’s mist away that idiot. Absolutely no place in Eberron and the setting is worse off for his existence. Half the point of the setting is to reject the overpowered-wizards-in-a-tower trope.

This feels like a fundamental misunderstanding of why high-level NPCs in eberron exist (or don't exist). If Mordain is just an 'overpowered wizard in a tower', does that make Jaela Daran an overpowered cleric in a cathedral? Oalian an overpowered druid in a clearing? Lady Vol an overpowered lich in a castle? The Inspired overpowered psions in a dystopia? Are all these NPCs fundamentally at odds with what Eberron 'is about'?

Eberron aims at being a world where mid-level PCs can have world-changing impacts. This is why there's dragonmarks (to give the dragons an excuse not to interfere with mortals too much, while giving mortals metaphysical weight to make up for their lackluster raw power), why the planes are so insular and uninvolved, and, indeed, why most NPCs barely rank above 10th level.

The question raised by Faerun, or Greyhawk, or any other setting, is typically "If the stakes are so high, why doesn't Elminster/Mordenkainen/etc show up to solve it? Why do our PCs matter? Why do we even bother doing anything, really?". That is what Eberron tries to avoid by doing away with the overpowered-wizard-in-tower trope. It doesn't have some irrational hatred of arcane spellcasters in vertical structures!

Mordain is a very powerful wizard. But he's not the type of guy to call upon when the world is about to end: he's the type of guy who's the reason the world is about to end. Mordain is powerful for one reason and one reason only: so the campaign doesn't run out of human-shaped villains by level 15. And until you need him in that capacity, he's reclusive and insane enough that 'hey, why has Mordain not solved this already' should never be on your player's minds.

A good ttrpg setting element creates adventure hooks: a bad setting element destroys them. How is Mordain making Eberron worse by that standard?

[Bohandas]

The question raised by Faerun, or Greyhawk, or any other setting, is typically "If the stakes are so high, why doesn't Elminster/Mordenkainen/etc show up to solve it? Why do our PCs matter? Why do we even bother doing anything, really?".

Does anyone else kind of want to do this as an adventure or campaign? Like, play a high level character and see how fast they can steamroll through a bunch of low-level published adventures?

In this thread we discuss editions 3.5 and earlier.

Actually I think the cranium rats were mindflayer affiliated in those editions too

[Fero]

Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions!

[Alea]

This feels like a fundamental misunderstanding of why high-level NPCs in eberron exist (or don't exist). If Mordain is just an 'overpowered wizard in a tower', does that make Jaela Daran an overpowered cleric in a cathedral? Oalian an overpowered druid in a clearing? Lady Vol an overpowered lich in a castle? The Inspired overpowered psions in a dystopia? Are all these NPCs fundamentally at odds with what Eberron 'is about'?

Jaela Daran, Oalian, Erandis d’Vol, and the Inspired are all powerful political forces active in the world. They fit into the world because they have their own agendas, their own institutions, their own “place”—they fit into the world literally because there’s a space in the world where they fit.

Mordain the Fleshweaver does none of that. He sits in a tower, doing apparently-nothing, unless or until it’s time for a plothook.

Moreover, all of the others you list have extreme limitations on their power: Jaela Daran only has her power while within the cathedral and is otherwise 3rd level. Oalian is literally an oak tree and cannot move. Erandis d’Vol is public enemy #1 for at least three different cultures, including the deus ex machina dragons. The Inspired have a remote country to run and a shadow war to fight. They aren’t doing the things they “could” do because they’re being actively checked by other parties or are subject to their innate limitations. Mordain is more powerful than Jaela or Oalian with none of their restrictions, and he’s much more powerful than Erandis d’Vol without any of the public notoriety.

More comparable would be the Lords of Dust, but again, those have a vested interest in not drawing draconic attention, and again they have an agenda that gives them a place in the world. Again, Mordain doesn’t have that.

So no, I don’t think I have any fundamental misunderstanding of anything: Mordain was simply a poor choice to include in the setting, and the setting is better off ignoring his existence. It’s very easy to do that—which is kind of the whole point. The fact that he is so easily ignored is a big part of the reason why he’s so worth ignoring.

[Fable Wright]

So no, I don’t think I have any fundamental misunderstanding of anything: Mordain was simply a poor choice to include in the setting, and the setting is better off ignoring his existence. It’s very easy to do that—which is kind of the whole point. The fact that he is so easily ignored is a big part of the reason why he’s so worth ignoring.

I can't find a citation, so take this with a grain of salt, but I recall reading that Wizards of the Coast mandated that Keith Baker have a non-antagonistic 9th-level magic user from the Wizard/Sorcerer, Cleric, and Druid lists in the setting. In part, as sources for higher-level spells in a player's spellbook, and in part as examples of their impact on the setting.

It is difficult to make a politically-motivated wizard who has access to Meteor Swarm and Wish and have them stymied by limitations. To prevent him from overly warping the setting, they made him a hermit that could be ally or enemy, but not an 'I win' button for the players to call upon, and someone who they could potentially exchange spells with. Which is the unfortunate 'wizard in a tower' trope.

The idea was also floated that Mordain may have once been known as Mordenkainen d'Phiarlan, writing a considerable corpus of spells that were named after him—including being the first ever person to replicate the Ghallanda magical mansion!—before his studies into the Daelkyr in the Closed Circle in Sharn, and his eagerness to put that gained knowledge to use, saw him exiled. Having him be a bitter and dispossessed researcher responsible for a vast litany of new spells used to this day, who just wants to enjoy the fruits of his study in a self-imposed retirement as the end of his life grows near, is a decent way to handle the reverberations of his impact on the setting. His name had to have been chosen to allow that substitution (Mordenkainen) but I suspect Wizards were not willing to make a note about it because of cross-contamination from the Greyhawk IP.

[Bohandas]

What happens if an aurak draconian gets healed after being turned into ball lightning